Last Nights Galloway Meeting....

[Capt John]

A few thoughts about the meeting last night pertaining to the proposed 2017 fluke reg's...

First off, nice to see Gerry at the entrance of the meeting room. Haven't talked to him in awhile. (old friend from our Sea School days).

Next, having the meeting, which I'm sure they knew was going to be a massive turnout, in a library which seats only 90 people was a joke.

The meeting was broken down to "questions and comments" sections after Kirby gave his dog and pony slide show trying to justify NOAA's ludicrous numbers and what the options that we are going to be force fed....sorry that's not going to happen.

I had to laugh when I saw the slide showing the "exact" number of fluke caught in NJ in 2016. How the hell did they come up with that? I'm sure not based upon any numbers I gave Quantech in the survey's they have me take during my fluke fishing season. They don't even ask me ANYTHING about quantity of fish from my trips.....so I know that number was pure pull it out of the hat bogus guesstimate.

The comments part of the meeting was the best as numerous organizations gave their thoughts....people with real numbers that can be proven. I got up their toward the end and said my piece telling those who wanted my input that after my spring Striper season comes to a close, I might as well shinkwrap the boat for the next 4 months as who the hell is going to hire me at 2 fish per angler?

Bottom line....this WHOLE process is total BULL****. Now you know why many business concerns don't even attend these meetings any more...they know the cards are stacked against them with all this bureaucracy. Are you aware there are 14 agencies with their hands on dictating weather or not I can fish here in NJ?

Here you go...(this is an email from a very reliable source)

“Under NOAA, you have:
NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Commission),
GARFO (Greater Atlantic Regional Fisheries Office)
MRIP (Marine Regional Information Program)
SAW (NE Regional Stock Assessment Workshop)
NEFSC. (Northeast Fisheries Science Center)
MAFMC (Mid Atlantic Marine Fisheries Council there are...Species Committees
The Scientific and Statistical Committee Advisory Panels.. includes 29 members
Fishery Management Action Team (FMAT includes GARFO, MAFMC, NEFSC, ASMFC),
Monitoring Committee for the FMAT. (Reps from each state, SAMFC, NEFSC, MAFMC, ASMFC, NMFS, US FISH & WILDLIFE) I suspect there are similar department structures for ASMFC and the NE COUNCIL.

As you can see this is a complicated bureaucracy. Add the fact that there does not appear to be anyone to specify what project goals are, set a timeline with a due dates and keep the process on track, it’s not surprising that they have been working on this for 30 years without any results.

In my opinion, the management issues overshadow the poor data issues, which is, on it’s own a big one.”

Now on to my comment of the day.....

The anglers aren’t killing the fluke fishing in NJ, these mismanaged agencies are. Let’s place the blame where it really belongs.

You know, just a few months ago I was seriously thinking about going to a bigger boat...but not now! When you see how the inner workings of this whole process works, and how delicate survival in the "for-hire" business is, making long range business plans is just about impossible. The boat that I have will do for now. Sad....very sad. I wanted to give my people, me and the crew some added comfort and add more days on the water, but looks like that's never going to happen.

[Rocky]

When I really started to look into where all of this data is coming from it blew my mind how many different agencies had their hands in the pie. You know what they say about too many cooks in the kitchen, unfortunately for us fisherman they are expecting us to eat this crap they are serving us.

[bunker dunker]

so what your saying is"9" government appointed agencies{or gov. recognized}
are on the pay roll to manage the fluke fishery here in n.j.????hhmmmm

[gnuisance]

I'll likely be a minority on this one but I'm glad that fluke are being protected. Far too many fisheries have been raped to destruction around here. The notion that fisherman are going to protect the fishery is laughable. How's the winter flounder fishing these days? Weakfish? Whiting?

If there is any a shred of doubt about the sustainability of this fishery then roll the limits, size and season back. Roll it all back. That goes for commercial and rec. Do you see the fleets of boats that hammer the channels in the summer day after day after day? Do you think that's sustainable?

Guys who have a dollar on the line never see the big picture. They see their next fare, next trip, next season. It's a lot bigger than that.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by gnuisance

I'll likely be a minority on this one but I'm glad that fluke are being protected. Far too many fisheries have been raped to destruction around here. The notion that fisherman are going to protect the fishery is laughable. How's the winter flounder fishing these days? Weakfish? Whiting?

If there is any a shred of doubt about the sustainability of this fishery then roll the limits, size and season back. Roll it all back. That goes for commercial and rec. Do you see the fleets of boats that hammer the channels in the summer day after day after day? Do you think that's sustainable?

Guys who have a dollar on the line never see the big picture. They see their next fare, next trip, next season. It's a lot bigger than that.

I understand your opinion, and I believe we can agree on a few things actually. However, by your post I assume that you are pretty much open to outlawing fishing if conditions warrant it.. fine.. let it be.. I will go catch sunnies, perch, maybe a laker or walleye here or there.. However, I want the EXACT SAME draconian regulations imposed on our friends that fish commercially, no matter how they do it.. NO "breaks", NO "bending the rules", NO "bycatch".. Hit as hard as we are- period. Whiting were killed with nets for pennies a pound decades ago.. Same with Weaks, same with Cod.. Winter Flounder?, we recs helped no doubt because of the ease of getting to where they live.. Tog?... There were plenty until the pot fishing, and "live market" pin hooking started, when people decided that $10-$15 was a fair price to pay for a small living Blackfish, and guys would happily go catch them by the hundreds every day they could get out.. Still doing it actually, regulations be damned.. Here's the bottom line-It was commercials in whatever form that did the lions share of damage.. So,, shut salt water fishing down completely??.. No problem,, but that means NO ONE FISHES.. NO "commercial exemptions"... When all the fish populations are rebuilt, we hold the commercials to the same tough to accept standards as the recs.. The populations will stay stable forever... bob

[AndyS]

My understanding is that there were around 140 in attendance, that is a very low number. There must be at least that amount of charter and party boat owners in the Sandy Hook area alone.
Another question is are the people making the fluke quotas the same people making the Bluefin Tuna, Black Sea Bass and Blueline Tilefish quotas ? If these people can't get a handle on fluke how can they possibly be trusted handling all the fish.

[Capt John]

Originally Posted by gnuisance

I'll likely be a minority on this one but I'm glad that fluke are being protected. Far too many fisheries have been raped to destruction around here. The notion that fisherman are going to protect the fishery is laughable. How's the winter flounder fishing these days? Weakfish? Whiting?

If there is any a shred of doubt about the sustainability of this fishery then roll the limits, size and season back. Roll it all back. That goes for commercial and rec. Do you see the fleets of boats that hammer the channels in the summer day after day after day? Do you think that's sustainable?

Guys who have a dollar on the line never see the big picture. They see their next fare, next trip, next season. It's a lot bigger than that.

I agree with you totally....but let's regulate with "factual" information and not "estimates" as I'm told even by the agencies dictating policy.

Everyone, including myself as well as most for hire's, wants a vibrant fishery for all species, but it has to be done in such a way as to maintain a healthy economic climate too. Are you aware of the massive ripple-down effect this will have on the shore communities and all the business that it will affect? Devastating to say the least!

Look, I don't take fish for the sake of killing. I ALWAYS urge my customers to "return" fish that they will not use for the dinner table. We've released many, many Striped Bass to swim another day but as paying customers, I am forced to oblige their wishes if the "insist" on killing a prized fish....bass or fluke. I can't count how many doormats I've released. Most of my anglers are, God bless them, catch and release fisherman. I am a very responsible person.

So, yes, I am totally in lock-step with "reasonable" limits to sustain a healthy fishery as you are, but from what I can see the numerous agencies monitoring and setting policy on ALL the recreationals are putting everyone under enormous burdens. One word for what I'm looking for....balance.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by Capt John

A few thoughts about the meeting last night pertaining to the proposed 2017 fluke reg's...

First off, nice to see Gerry at the entrance of the meeting room. Haven't talked to him in awhile. (old friend from our Sea School days).

Next, having the meeting, which I'm sure they knew was going to be a massive turnout, in a library which seats only 90 people was a joke.

The meeting was broken down to "questions and comments" sections after Kirby gave his dog and pony slide show trying to justify NOAA's ludicrous numbers and what the options that we are going to be force fed....sorry that's not going to happen.

I had to laugh when I saw the slide showing the "exact" number of fluke caught in NJ in 2016. How the hell did they come up with that? I'm sure not based upon any numbers I gave Quantech in the survey's they have me take during my fluke fishing season. They don't even ask me ANYTHING about quantity of fish from my trips.....so I know that number was pure pull it out of the hat bogus guesstimate.

The comments part of the meeting was the best as numerous organizations gave their thoughts....people with real numbers that can be proven. I got up their toward the end and said my piece telling those who wanted my input that after my spring Striper season comes to a close, I might as well shinkwrap the boat for the next 4 months as who the hell is going to hire me at 2 fish per angler?

Bottom line....this WHOLE process is total BULL****. Now you know why many business concerns don't even attend these meetings any more...they know the cards are stacked against them with all this bureaucracy. Are you aware there are 14 agencies with their hands on dictating weather or not I can fish here in NJ?

Here you go...(this is an email from a very reliable source)

“Under NOAA, you have:
NMFS (National Marine Fisheries Commission),
GARFO (Greater Atlantic Regional Fisheries Office)
MRIP (Marine Regional Information Program)
SAW (NE Regional Stock Assessment Workshop)
NEFSC. (Northeast Fisheries Science Center)
MAFMC (Mid Atlantic Marine Fisheries Council there are...Species Committees
The Scientific and Statistical Committee Advisory Panels.. includes 29 members
Fishery Management Action Team (FMAT includes GARFO, MAFMC, NEFSC, ASMFC),
Monitoring Committee for the FMAT. (Reps from each state, SAMFC, NEFSC, MAFMC, ASMFC, NMFS, US FISH & WILDLIFE) I suspect there are similar department structures for ASMFC and the NE COUNCIL.

As you can see this is a complicated bureaucracy. Add the fact that there does not appear to be anyone to specify what project goals are, set a timeline with a due dates and keep the process on track, it’s not surprising that they have been working on this for 30 years without any results.

In my opinion, the management issues overshadow the poor data issues, which is, on it’s own a big one.”

Now on to my comment of the day.....

The anglers aren’t killing the fluke fishing in NJ, these mismanaged agencies are. Let’s place the blame where it really belongs.

You know, just a few months ago I was seriously thinking about going to a bigger boat...but not now! When you see how the inner workings of this whole process works, and how delicate survival in the "for-hire" business is, making long range business plans is just about impossible. The boat that I have will do for now. Sad....very sad. I wanted to give my people, me and the crew some added comfort and add more days on the water, but looks like that's never going to happen.

Great to see you too John... A major victory last night for sure. It all started in the 430 meeting when Bob Rush on the NJ Marine Fisherman's Council who also happens to be on the Board of the NJRFA made a motion to to reject all the options that were being forced down our throats.

The 6:30 public comment meeting was the icing on the cake. Everyone who spoke stayed right on point to tell the council and the council agreed that none of the 5 options were acceptable since the science and methods used for stock assessments is flawed and can't be trusted.

We have a long battle and a lot of work in front of us here but I'm glad we and the 2 councils had the courage to finally take a stand.

It's certainly not over yet and there will be a lot of maneuvering and political pressure needed, but I'm pretty confident we are on the right path to have a good chance of saving of 2017 Fluke fishing season a forcing some much needed change.

Thanks to all who showed up to support our stance and I very much look forward to continuing the fight with you all.

[Sullivan]

I counted 98 people in the small room . I cannot say if it was a joke or not , but one thing I know is that most people were from an organization , or from south Jersey , Delaware bay area . So as far as the carpooling , 1000 people , and the rest of the crap I've been reading here , made for the best joke of the night !

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by gnuisance

I'll likely be a minority on this one but I'm glad that fluke are being protected. Far too many fisheries have been raped to destruction around here. The notion that fisherman are going to protect the fishery is laughable. How's the winter flounder fishing these days? Weakfish? Whiting?

If there is any a shred of doubt about the sustainability of this fishery then roll the limits, size and season back. Roll it all back. That goes for commercial and rec. Do you see the fleets of boats that hammer the channels in the summer day after day after day? Do you think that's sustainable?

Guys who have a dollar on the line never see the big picture. They see their next fare, next trip, next season. It's a lot bigger than that.

I think I speak for most here when I say we all support a managed fishery and the long term sustainability of the Fluke stocks. We can't however base our regulations on estimated landings and bio mass that are known to be flawed. It also does not make any sense to continue with regulations that have anglers targeting larger fish which are all breeders. Common sense tells you that taking them out of the population has a negative effect on rebuilding the stocks..

Lastly, people a lot smarter then me and who have been intimately involved in the process that serve on the Atlantic and NJ Fisheries Councils are in agreement. The process is broken and no one has any confidence that the science we've been using and the management path we've been on is the right one. They too have had enough and are ready to make a stand.