Blackfish.. bad luck or bad numbers?

[bulletbob]

Went togging on a sponsor boat yesterday,,[weds].. First stop within 30 seconds I had a quick hit and boated my first keeper of the day.. Thought it was going to be a good day indeed.. Alas for me, it was my ONLY keeper.
Matter of fact my tally for the rest of the trip afterward was 2 shorts and a damn horn dog. Others had 1 or 2 keepers, a few guys had 3, some had none.
Just really slow with not a lot of life on any of the stops the captain elected to fish.. He and his crew worked their hind ends off trying, NO question about it, and I would be glad to sail with them any time..
My last tog trip late last season was very similar. Well respected NS that has been togging in NJ for many decades, going back to the "good old days". Just no hits anywhere on the boat for long periods.. Even when the fish were "biting", you might see a fish come up every 15 minutes or so during the day, with the occasional doggie coming up to keep things exciting.. This has been going on for years.. I am trying to gauge if this is the way blackfishing really is these days ..
Many guys on the head boats tell me, yes this is it, this is the new reality, don't judge it by 25 years ago.. Others tell me yes they do a get a limit now and again, but most days a couple fish is as much as you can expect when togging... Reading the reports on the net from many sources, you would think limits are the norm, and big fish 10 + are an every day thing...

Look I understand some guys don't catch because they can't get the feel, but I never had that problem.. I have been togging for well over 40 years, and feeling tog hits and hooking them was never an issue.. Its just that for several years, there don't seem to be any hits to hook more often than not.. Crabs keep coming back up unmolested... For most of my trips the past 8 or so years, the entire boat experienced the same lack of life...

I was in the bow yesterday, and the slightly better bite was certainly in the stern except on the first drop which is where I caught my one keeper and my 2 shorts.. Never caught another tog after that, and the only hit was the dogfish, and a few bergals the size of my index finger.
Many regulars moved to the stern from the bow, but I didn't feel comfortable pushing my way in.. These guys all knew on another, and they support that boat on a regular basis.. I don't feel I have that right, for some dopey reason.

I am starting to think I might be better off going somewhat further south for blackfish. I think there is more potential bottom thats suited for tog, and yesterday the number of head and charter boats from both NY and NJ in a limited area was staggering.. Part of the day yesterday, we were fishing in an area where there were 4 party boats so close you could hit any of the 4 with an underhand sinker toss... None of those other boats were catching either..

I dunno, either I am picking bad days whenever I go for blackfish, or the numbers of them are way down... I personally have not seen a limit caught in the past 7 or 8 years on any tog boat I have been on, 4 keepers was the most I have personally witnessed, and 3 has been my personal best day in years,, My son who is 31 refuses to drive down with me for any more after several trips with no one catching, and no life around the boat . He said to me last night, "blackfishing is always like that -you should have gone out for stripers".. Probably right..
He and I have gone on some sea bass/ling trips that were kind of slow for us as well, but that was our fault.. Just not dialed in real well that particular day.. I have had trips where we just stunk, but others did fine.. Thing is there was life, it was just not our day.
.. Blackfishing for me seems to simply be nobody home down there. Been that way for a long time now.

Is this really the way all NJ blackfishing is today, or do I simply need to change venues and drive a little further south??

I still see those big piles of tog on the net, and still see great reports from private boaters, so tog aren't extinct yet I guess..

That pile of head boats yesterday on such a small area, really got me thinking maybe there just aren't enough fish within the reach of so many boats... It wasn't even the weekend.

Each and every captain and crew on these trips I have written about were terrific, and worked very hard and I would recommend any of them both sponsor and NS... They worked very hard at finding fish, just seemed as though there wan't much to find.
I am simply questioning the actual number of fish out there in this modern age.
I may just need to pick the right days to drive down, instead of days when the fish are totally turned off... Next trip down will probably be for ling-stripers will be gone, and I am actually afraid to go out for tog again this year... maybe next year. No flaming please.. Just kind of confused more than anything else..bob

[Joey Dah Fish]

As they say some times you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield. Hang in there brother. I think the moon slowed the bite i was out Tuesday and the fishing was certainly slower. A very different kind of bite. Yet the day before they bit their heads off. You will gettem next time. Not sure what you mean by south . But the buys out of the Highlands, Belmar and PP doing very well. So must have been the day or the bait. Good luck and press on.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Joey Dah Fish

As they say some times you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield. Hang in there brother. I think the moon slowed the bite i was out Tuesday and the fishing was certainly slower. A very different kind of bite. Yet the day before they bit their heads off. You will gettem next time. Not sure what you mean by south . But the buys out of the Highlands, Belmar and PP doing very well. So must have been the day or the bait. Good luck and press on.

JDF.. The bait was fine.. Green crabs were nice.. alive and kicking. No stinkers.. Lots of guys tried white leggers, but from the buzz I heard, they went untouched.. This was an AH boat with a great capt and crew, NO doubt... Years past I always fished tog out of Belmar mainly because in those years most AH boats fishing whiting and ling and not tog this time of year.. Always caught tog, but back then very few guys fished for them.. I can remember going out with capt Dom on the Skipper with maybe 15 guys on a saturday or sunday.. My how times have changed...bob

[fishingmortgageman]

I think that you drive a long way to go fishing and should try to maximize the potential to catch fish when you come. I am suggesting that you spend a bit more money and go on a 6 pack charter. Many captains are offering open boat trips. It stands to reason that if a boat stops on a piece that there are a limited number of fish available to catch. Your odds of catching greatly increase when there are five other people fishing rather than 40 other people. I am not saying that the captains of the charter boats are better than the party boats but that you have less competition on a charter boat. Since you only have a chance to get out occasionally you should give it a try and see if it works for you.

[joerosa1]

Don't know the boat you referring to and I don't consider myself a "Tog Novice". Went on a sponsor boat "Deep Down" yestarday and believe I did the worst on the boat getting three nice keeper Togs as well as shorts. The person to my left was a first time togger (experienced fisherwoman) and she pulled in seven nice keepers. She received input and lessons from the first mate which seemed helpful. Of the group of eight people no one left skunked and most caught five plus keepers. Not sure if a smaller boat is able to get you over more selective and productive spots but everyone left with a smile.

[bigchefguy710]

I went opening day missed a lot of fish was fishing a 5/0 hook with bigger pieces of crab... Couldn't get em scaled down to a 3/0 and ended up boxing a couple . Some days it's an all out bite and other days it's frustrating. Good luck

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by fishingmortgageman

I think that you drive a long way to go fishing and should try to maximize the potential to catch fish when you come. I am suggesting that you spend a bit more money and go on a 6 pack charter. Many captains are offering open boat trips. It stands to reason that if a boat stops on a piece that there are a limited number of fish available to catch. Your odds of catching greatly increase when there are five other people fishing rather than 40 other people. I am not saying that the captains of the charter boats are better than the party boats but that you have less competition on a charter boat. Since you only have a chance to get out occasionally you should give it a try and see if it works for you.

I agree with you, and know exactly what you mean.. If a drop has lets say 30 willing,legal size fish on it, and those fish are divided among 6 or 8 guys, its a good stop.. If there are 40 guys on board, it quickly becomes a poor one...
One problem is money.. I can go on a head boat twice for the same amount of money a six pack costs once...
I think next time I will go on a Monday when the boats might only sail with 8 or 10 guys.... Like I stated, I am judging my catches by what I would normally catch when I lived in NJ.. Moved out in 1991... I used to catch more tog off the jetties in Deal back then than I catch on boats these days.. I suppose it could just be a couple decades of picking days with a slow bite, but that doesn't seem logical... I do know tog were not commercially fished to any extent until I hit the age of 40 or so,, Now in my 60's, I see a lot of guys complaining about it.
One of these days I will hit a day with a hot bite.. Maybe some monday when there aren't a million boats out there, all jockeying for position for a limited number of willing fish... Thats why they call it fishing, not catching,,
Hey I am NOT bitching, just trying to start an interesting conversation !,,, btw, happy Thanksgiving to all NJF members... bob

[MVP]

You can not make a determination about how fishing has been by one or two trips. You have to put the time in before you can make a determination on how fishing is. Sort of like clinical studies that pharmaceutical company's do when determine that safety of a medication. Can not say that medication does not work based on results of a few patients. They look at hundreds and thousands of patients. When it comes to fishing I think you need to do at least 6 -12 trips before you can make that call. I made a commitment this year to fish hard this fall and winter in search of double digit blackfish. I can honestly say that it is probably the best Numbers I have had to start the season both in numbers and Quality. In my numbers I only count keepers as shorts do not count in my book


10/12 NY = 14 keepers. Great bite all day
10/18 NJ = 9 keepers. Tough bite
11/5 RI. = 16 keepers. Good bite
11/6. RI = 9 keepers. Ok bite
11/11 NY = 6 keepers. Tough bite
11/21 RI. = 19 keepers Awesome bite
11/22 RI = 11 keepers Ok/Good bite
11/25 NY = 4 keepers Really tough bite
Took my dad out on this trip so was tying and baiting his hooks all day so could not fish as hard as I normally do. Just wanted him to have a good time He tied me for high hook so i was happy he caught a few on a tough bite day.

Total of 8 trips = 92 keepers
When figuring out average I normally toss best trip and worst trip results to give me a more accurate average.
Average= 11.5 keepers per trip
Quality size has been good. Have had a dozen fish over 7 lbs with 3 fish going over 10lbs. The biggest going 12.7 lbs. 2 of the 3 double digits were released. The 12.7 did not make it after trying to revive it as we we were fishing deep water and she didn't make it

If you are fishing party boats it is going to make it harder to put in days of big catches. These Capts do a great job of putting there customers on fish. There is just more baits in the watet and only so many fish to compete to get fish to take your bait. Much harder to build your on life with so many guys on boat. Once you do start building your own life and start catching you are surety going to get mugged. That is OK as it is part of the blackfish game.

Need to constantly make changes based on conditions and how the bite is going. Also fishing to catch fish vs fishing to catch keepers is a different ball game. Need to adjust your presentation when looking to put fish in the box or when looking for a pool fish

Do not get discouraged as it sounds like you have been doing this for along time
How I fished 20-30 years ago is totally different to how if fish now when it comes to tackle, rigs, bait and technique. I fish all winter long and have been blessed to fish with some of the best blackfish Capts and blackfisherman on the east coast. I am a sponge she I am out there. I try to keep myself humble and learn as much as can from anyone by listening or by just observing what is working. I have been Blackfishing for about 30 years now and believe I am just starting to figure out what is working for me, as I have become a much better blackfisherman over the past 2 years. The thing that keeps you coming back and why we all love Blackfishing is figuring out the bite on a given day or even on a given tide of the day. Just when you think you are the man and have it all figured out they will put you in your place and humble you.

[MVP]

A few pics from recent trips

[MVP]

AC