Legal or not?

[captainmike555]

I recently observed live blackfish being sold in a Philadelphia Chinatown restaurant and at an Asian market in Cherry Hill. I was under the impression that this practice is illegal. Can someone clarify the current status? At 17.99 per pound and the fish looking half dead (obviously suffering) while trying to swim in the small tanks, I am both disgusted and angry that this is not being addressed. Do the rules not apply to these folks?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Pin hookers can and do legally catch and keep live Blackfish.

[bulletbob]

With the almost hysterical mania that people of ALL races have in the modern age for all things sushi/sashimi its no wonder..
A keeper size blackfish say around 2-3 pounds, thats kept fresh and lively brings $25 to the seller.. was told thats the going rate for one keeper size tog, by a PB mate that does it daily in season. More weight = more money of course, but in the live fish trade average size fish are more desirable from what I understand, and I imagine there is a size where they do become less desirable... Not sure.

a good tog fishermen that that keeps his fish very lively and culls his catch can pay for gas ,bait, ramp and probably still pocket a $50 bill, with his days catch if he has the right buyers ..

its a shame.. It wasn't all that long ago that tog were considered less than desirable, and " blackfish specialist" boats were sailing on a nice Saturday or sunday with 15 or less guys, and on a gray November morning with a 20 knot chop would not even get enough guys to sail.. bob

It all began when the "raw fish craze" started in the 90's... bob

From what I've observed, the bigger issue aside from the fact the fish do look half dead is many of the fish you see in those tanks don't appear to come close to meeting the legal size limit. From what I've read understand, the desired size in China is 12 - 14 inches which for a very slow growing fish if those are the sizes making their way to the market over here it certainly won't help the fishery.

[jmurr711]

old topic go to any live fish market yall see tog, Chinatown, any Asian market, itallian market. No one cares about the tog market legal or illegal but god forbid you sell a striper

[bulletbob]

They really must be afforded gamefish status in the near future.. It has to happen..These poor fish are pounded relentlessly, and have no where to hide.. Everyone with a boat and a GPS knows exactly where they are all year, and how to catch them, legal or not...


Why can't the "live fish" industry get going on infrastructure to provide very good eating freshwater species such as yellow perch that are common and grow fast?... I eat a lot of them as well as Bluegills, Rock bass etc, and when taken from clean water they are as good as most any salt water fish.. Maybe I'm naive but it would seem that changing to commercially raised fresh water species would be pretty easy.. Might require some law changes, but if they are raised commercially, I don't see a problem..
As I stated previously, it wasn't that long ago that tog were a throwaway species to commercial fishermen, there was no market.. One was developed fairly quickly with them, and it could probably be done with other species as well... bob

For the longest time conventional wisdom was there could never be a commercial fishery for tog because of the structures they inhabited. Then roller trawlers and pots came into play along with the live tog market and the fishery has never recovered. Again if any fishery has a significant enough price on it's head, it'll be exploited commercially until economically not feasible to harvest meaning the stock has been depleted. $15.99 a lb for small live tog in a market, imagine what they get in NY restaurants. There was a post a month or so ago stating the average size tog in the PP canal was getting noticeably smaller, that's the trend and it's happening for a reason. Years ago the canal was loaded in the spring and fall with big fish. Can only imagine how many pots break loose and end up indiscriminately killing for years and how many undersized fish are brought into NY harbor for the Asian restaurants under the radar of law enforcement. It's out of control. Anyone caught should have their boat and equipment confiscated and auctioned off to fund greater enforcement efforts. Until the risk outweighs the reward, fishery will continue getting pounded.

[captainmike555]

Thanks for the feedback. I did not even touch on the possession limits or size limits, both of which were not being followed, as it was the season where one fish is allowed at 15" when I saw them. In each tank were 8-10 fish, most in the 12-14' range. Watching another fishery decimated in my lifetime (I'm 63) is very depressing. True, the raw fish markets are driving things to insanity in terms of price and scarcity, but I've seen ling, whiting, bluefin tuna, weakfish, blowfish, winter flounder, cod, and other species crushed in my time on this blue marble, seemingly never to return to their once abundant status. I have seen and know guys (to this day) who keep species out of season, keep shorts, filet at sea, etc. Add to that the commercials and their wholesale destruction and I sometimes really want to hang up my gear and dump the boat. I so enjoy being out on the water that it's hard to quit the habit, but it's getting to the point that after 50 years on the NY Bight, it may be getting time to find another hobby. Someone talk me out of it.

[Joey Dah Fish]

There is a new tagging system coming down the line. So any live fish at the market will need to have a tag on it. All others are illegal

Originally Posted by captainmike555

Thanks for the feedback. I did not even touch on the possession limits or size limits, both of which were not being followed, as it was the season where one fish is allowed at 15" when I saw them. In each tank were 8-10 fish, most in the 12-14' range. Watching another fishery decimated in my lifetime (I'm 63) is very depressing. True, the raw fish markets are driving things to insanity in terms of price and scarcity, but I've seen ling, whiting, bluefin tuna, weakfish, blowfish, winter flounder, cod, and other species crushed in my time on this blue marble, seemingly never to return to their once abundant status. I have seen and know guys (to this day) who keep species out of season, keep shorts, filet at sea, etc. Add to that the commercials and their wholesale destruction and I sometimes really want to hang up my gear and dump the boat. I so enjoy being out on the water that it's hard to quit the habit, but it's getting to the point that after 50 years on the NY Bight, it may be getting time to find another hobby. Someone talk me out of it.

I'll give it a shot even though that might have been a rhetorical statement. I think it's true for many when we're younger it's mostly about catching. As we get older and I'll speak from my own perspective, its more about the experience, time on the water with friends and family and respect for the resource. I still love catching but the experience is way more important than what ends up in the cooler even though my family loves fish for dinner. I'm not sure you can just turn that off and selectively walk away nor do I wish to.

I've always said I don't think there's another sport / hobby people enjoy and participate in more when they're older than when they're younger than fishing. That's why in spite of where we're at with certain fisheries, it's important to hang in and fight the fight to protect the resource. It's a tall challenge but walking away is equivalent to throwing in the towel and I don't think that's a healthy option for any recreational angler.

Hope that helps in some small way......................