Fluke Regs this year

[AndyS]

Effective 6:01 p.m. on Sunday, December 2, 2018, which started a new fishing week, the New Jersey commercial Summer Flounder trip limits increased from 500 pounds two times per week or 1000 pounds one time per week, to 1,250 pounds two times per week or 2,500 pounds once per week. On the evening of Saturday, December 1st, 2018 shortly after 6:00 p.m., Lt. Scott observed a commercial fishing vessel enter Manasquan Inlet and dock up at the Fisherman's Dock Cooperative in Point Pleasant Beach and begin the offloading process. Upon inspection of the vessel, Lt. Scott noticed that the vessel's Federal Vessel Trip Report (FVTR) listed 1,000 pounds of summer flounder that were going to be sold to a New York-based dealer. Additionally, it was discovered that the operator failed to give at least two hours notice to the Marine Region Office prior to offloading summer flounder. Lt. Scott asked the operator if the vessel was loaded with more than the 1,000 pounds of summer flounder that was recorded in the FVTR. The operator indicated there was additional summer flounder in the hold and claimed his plan was to offload the 1,000 pound trip limit then head back out to make a few tows so he could get the rest of the new weeks trip limit. Lt. Scott advised the operator this was a violation in addition to offloading after 6:00 p.m. and directed the operator to offload all the fish he had onboard. When the offload was completed, more than 3,000 pounds of summer flounder was in possession along with other managed species of fish, which were not listed on the FVTR. Additionally, just under 100 pounds of black sea bass was onboard which was over the legal bycatch amount of 50 pounds. Summonses were issued for failure to accurately complete FVTR, failure to provide two hours notice prior to offloading summer flounder, offloading summer flounder after legal hours, possess more than the daily trip limit of summer flounder and possess black sea bass over the bycatch limit.

Originally Posted by AndyS

Effective 6:01 p.m. on Sunday, December 2, 2018, which started a new fishing week, the New Jersey commercial Summer Flounder trip limits increased from 500 pounds two times per week or 1000 pounds one time per week, to 1,250 pounds two times per week or 2,500 pounds once per week. On the evening of Saturday, December 1st, 2018 shortly after 6:00 p.m., Lt. Scott observed a commercial fishing vessel enter Manasquan Inlet and dock up at the Fisherman's Dock Cooperative in Point Pleasant Beach and begin the offloading process. Upon inspection of the vessel, Lt. Scott noticed that the vessel's Federal Vessel Trip Report (FVTR) listed 1,000 pounds of summer flounder that were going to be sold to a New York-based dealer. Additionally, it was discovered that the operator failed to give at least two hours notice to the Marine Region Office prior to offloading summer flounder. Lt. Scott asked the operator if the vessel was loaded with more than the 1,000 pounds of summer flounder that was recorded in the FVTR. The operator indicated there was additional summer flounder in the hold and claimed his plan was to offload the 1,000 pound trip limit then head back out to make a few tows so he could get the rest of the new weeks trip limit. Lt. Scott advised the operator this was a violation in addition to offloading after 6:00 p.m. and directed the operator to offload all the fish he had onboard. When the offload was completed, more than 3,000 pounds of summer flounder was in possession along with other managed species of fish, which were not listed on the FVTR. Additionally, just under 100 pounds of black sea bass was onboard which was over the legal bycatch amount of 50 pounds. Summonses were issued for failure to accurately complete FVTR, failure to provide two hours notice prior to offloading summer flounder, offloading summer flounder after legal hours, possess more than the daily trip limit of summer flounder and possess black sea bass over the bycatch limit.

Didn't call in, waited until shortly after the required 6:00 pm weigh in cut off, rolled the dice and came up snake eyes. A big THANK YOU to Lt. Scott and F&G in general! And the FVTR was already filled out with 1,000 lbs, what a surprise. Probably no dead discard either I'm sure. To my point earlier, with the limited resources F&G has this happens all the time. 2,000 lbs. more and lets say on average wholesale was $4/lb. at the dock, that's $8k more in illegal catch value. If the guy offloaded to another boat or waited a few hours, chances are he wouldn't even have been caught.

Until the laws change and the fines outweigh the upside financial benefit, operators are going to take these risks. Permits should be forfeited, heavy fines imposed and boats / equipment confiscated. A slap on the wrist isn't going to change behavior when the upside benefits are so significant. Guys like this abuse the fishery at the expense of the operators who play by the rules and the recreational community.

[Billfish715]

Just something to ponder.........the commercial fluke quota is 1,500 pounds per week during a few months during the year. That equals 750 two pound fluke per week for one boat. Which party boat or boats caught 750 keeper fluke in one week? Increase the number of commercial boats to ten. That is 7,500 keeper fluke per week. I don't care how good the captains and anglers are on the party and charter boats along the coast, but 7,500 keepers is quite a total to match. Think about it.

I'd like to hear from someone representing the commercial industry to hear what their take is on this topic. I know they will have their complaints and arguments but I can't see why they would be opposed to closing the fluke season for them during the fluke migration to and on the spawning grounds if they want to protect their future. Of course the argument will be that they are losing money but losing their livelihood due to the extinction of a species is worse.

[AndyS]

They get to keep 14 inch fish, correct ?

[Billfish715]

Yeah, they do Andy. I know where you are going with this. They "harvest" considerably more than 750 fluke per trip. Because the discussion was mainly about females, I thought I'd focus on larger fish. But, you are correct, by catching smaller fish, they are actually catching more fish. And, how does a smaller 14" or smaller fluke get out of the net (even with larger mesh) when they are being squashed by all of the fish on top of them. That, I just don't understand. If you drag a net full of fish that are being squashed for any length of time or distance, don't you think they will get suffocated? I need this to be explained to me.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Yes commercials are allowed to keep 14 inch fish.... I'm fine with that since those fish count towards their quota which is in pounds not number of fish... If they had to discard those 14 inch fish that happened to get caught in their net, those fish would not count towards their quota, end up discarded/dead and would be wasted...

Further, people above are doing the math that commercials keep X amount of fish each time they go out and how that is way more then any party boat could possibly catch... The one thing missing in this logic is commercial landings are monitored and counted by weight and once their quota is attained, no matter what the date is, they get shut down... On the recreational side we are given seasons from X date to Y date and can fish all of those days.

As far as quotas, it varies from year to year but right or wrong, commercials usually get a little more then the recreationals do... Last year they got 54% of the quota and we got 46%.

Some of you maybe reading this and think, hmm Gerry's pro commercial fishing.... The reality is there will always be commercial fishing as long as there is demand for fish. Knowing that you just need to be sure the quotas are split fairly, the commercials are monitored closely so they don't exceed their quota and given sensible rules that don't force them to waste the resources with discards, which is why I support allowing them to keep 14 inch fish..

[dales529]

This is a great post different from winters past as there is a lot of good information here ( Thanks Tom Dakota for all the in depth research) and others with well intended and informative posts. Tom you have to get on one of the main councils one day!

Mild reality check:
1) Recreational and commercial has always been and will remain under separate regulations and the two can not be compared except for poundage allocation. The spawning closures would be great however another major act to the current regs. The video earlier in this post in dumping the Fluke over was NOT because they were over the limit but because it was by catch out of season so they had no choice. Again if By catch measures out of season were changed say a poundage allocation for in season and a by catch allocation for out of season on that same species not to exceed the yearly allocation may make sense. But since counting fish is apparently impossible that has issues too.

2) While the female harvest vs stock biomass is obviously a major issue the methodology is not in place YET to address this . SSFFF and Rutgers studies did NOT pass peer review due to a computer data input vs output glitch so current modifed stock assessments are still in play. The Sex based studies will not be used and may take more time until it can pass peer review and be implemented
Please continue to support SSFFF and Rutgers as much as possible to achieve the final goals.

Having said that in my opinion and I agree with Joey Da Fish due to the current management process the introduction of a slot fish in any manner will result in one and only one result. A SHORTER season by weeks not days.
Doesn't mean any of the information in this post isnt valid or important just don't think the system is ready YET for that change.

Modern fish act allows for more flexibility so lets see how that translates but will still be based on the current stock assessments for input data or "best science available that exists


Good news is we are looking at an increased quota (lbs) by maybe 16 to 17% for this 2019 season. Changes to the " best science available" are in the works and under consideration but not quite there yet

This does or does NOT mean anything yet as those meetings are yet to be done and slot fish may or may not be on the table.

Simply put All Fishing groups and the public etc will all be involved as much as allowed for input but in the end I expect (dont know yet) that NOAA will supply the 5 options for our season to be debated but not listened to and PICK one at the NJ State level.
Should be an interesting couple of months AGAIN.

This is JUST MY Opinion.

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Yes commercials are allowed to keep 14 inch fish.... I'm fine with that since those fish count towards their quota which is in pounds not number of fish... If they had to discard those 14 inch fish that happened to get caught in their net, those fish would not count towards their quota, end up discarded/dead and would be wasted...

Further, people above are doing the math that commercials keep X amount of fish each time they go out and how that is way more then any party boat could possibly catch... The one thing missing in this logic is commercial landings are monitored and counted by weight and once their quota is attained, no matter what the date is, they get shut down... On the recreational side we are given seasons from X date to Y date and can fish all of those days.

As far as quotas, it varies from year to year but right or wrong, commercials usually get a little more then the recreationals do... Last year they got 54% of the quota and we got 46%.

Some of you maybe reading this and think, hmm Gerry's pro commercial fishing.... The reality is there will always be commercial fishing as long as there is demand for fish. Knowing that you just need to be sure the quotas are split fairly, the commercials are monitored closely so they don't exceed their quota and given sensible rules that don't force them to waste the resources with discards, which is why I support allowing them to keep 14 inch fish..

Gerry couple comments. In theory I'm also as previously mentioned in agreement with commercials having a 14" minimum size limit if it's being followed. Concerned about Dan's comments that mesh sizes are increased on a spot basis or in general since it would completely defeat that benefit and why the legislation was adopted initially. Over the years I've witnessed winter offloads at the docks and believe me there's aren't many if any 14" fish in their catches simply because that's not where the value is. Also don't believe higher mesh sizes help 14" fish escape. Most articles I've read say a majority of the catch due to weight of the catch combined with water pressure created during the trawl come up already dead or in a condition they won't survive if released. So while I agree the size was allowed to benefit the fishery, don't believe it's accomplishing it's intended purpose because of this wholesale price differential issue between smaller and larger fish.

Minor point but point nonetheless. Watch the video I posted earlier which I posted again below. Notice the huge strip at the 38 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inSN...ature=youtu.be

Video was made in 2010. Here's an excerpt from the 2010 Summer Flounder regulations:

Unloading of summer flounder can only occur between 6:00AM and 6:00PM from November 1 through April 30 and between 6:00AM and
8:00PM from May 1 through October 31. When a vessel contacts the Division regarding the time and place of unloading, the vessel must also report
how many landings will have been made that week, including the proposed landing being called in. Once the season has been closed in the directed
commercial summer flounder fishery, no vessel can land and no dealer can accept any summer flounder landed in New Jersey in excess of the bycatch allowances specified above, provided the amount of summer flounder landed from any vessel cannot exceed 10%, by weight, of the total weight of all species landed and sold. A portion of the annual quota is dedicated to a by-catch fishery. Once the directed and by-catch quotas for a season have been landed, no vessel can land any summer flounder and no dealer can accept any summer flounder landed in New Jersey. Only whole fresh summer flounder can be landed, except that individually frozen summer flounder can be landed in amounts not exceeding by-catch allowances specified above provided they can be measured for total length. No vessel can land and no dealer can accept any summer flounder which have been filleted or processed in any way.

Why would there be a fluke strip on board when filleting wasn't allowed at sea and then take a guess where those fillets ended up. I'm sure it wasn't filleted and discarded. Sure it wasn't reported on the FVTR since only whole fish are allowed to be weighed in. Based on the size of the strip the fish was a very big female like the others dumped only probably larger. Wouldn't be difficult to hide a bunch of fillets on board and sell them in the black market once back in port by transferring to another boat before pulling in to offload their catch. It's only one strip in the video but the larger point is it questions behavior at sea. As I've said, if those were the size fish tossed back dead, imagine the size of the 200 lbs. retained and how many other fish might have been filleted and either offloaded before docking or hidden from F&G back at the docks. Lot of compartments on commercial boats, wouldn't be difficult. There has to be ~50 fish in those three totes. Average size appears easily over 5 lbs. per fish for a combined weight of at least 250 lbs and if those constitute the smaller fish compared to what was retained, safe to say over 500 lbs. of female fluke were killed as by catch alone by one boat on one trip. Multiply that by the number of boats fishing and the numbers are staggering. If we're suppose to believe most fish come up alive in nets, you have to ask why all those fish were thrown back dead and not released alive when they hit the deck especially if the purpose of the video was simply to make a point to NMFS. Why would you have to kill those fluke to make that point. More likely scenario is fish were stock piled on deck throughout multiple hauls, culled after the last, largest fish were retained and overage either filleted or tossed back dead. When the boat returns to the dock, they appear to be compliant with 200 lbs. of fluke but the damage at sea has already been done. 300 lbs. isn't reported anywhere against the commercial quota and I'd venture to say minimal dead discard reported on the FVTR. Why would they, it would only be used against them in future quotas and is completely unquantifiable. It's the honor system and it doesn't work with the amount of dollars wrapped up in these fisheries.

I'm not concerned with quota allocations in general since they aren't terribly disproportionate and commercial and recreational have both been impacted. Regarding your comment " the commercials are monitored closely so they don't exceed their quota and given sensible rules that don't force them to waste the resources with discards". I agree efforts have been stepped up to monitor compliance at the docks but what occurs at sea is completely not monitored other than the location of the boat which does nothing to monitor catch. With the wholesale price differential, I believe hygrading is a major problem in this fishery and causing extensive damage. I know the "Codfather" story I mentioned is maybe an extreme case in terms of magnitude, BUT the fact it went on for 20 - 30 years undetected and was only brought to surface as a result of the IRS money laundering investigation speaks volumes about the ineffectiveness of enforcement efforts. While enforcement efforts have been improved, I don't agree the process and limited resources insure overall quota and catch compliance. NO ONE from enforcement has any idea what's going on at sea. It's simple to offload any amount of their catch before docking and run it up to NY to sell in the black market we all know exists and no one from F&G would even know. Hygrading is a problem, 60 - 70% differential in wholesale prices guarantees it. I believe the majority of operators play by the rules but a lesser percentage who don't reap havoc on this fishery. That problem is not an NMFS regulatory issue, it's a combination of the disparity with wholesale market prices between size fish coupled with the lack of sufficient enforcement resources fueled by a multi eight or nine figure black market for fresh fish that circumvents the regulatory supply chain.

As far as creating a separate category for charter and party boat catches, would have to give that more thought but my first reaction is along the lines of Gerry's reply and twofold. First it adds more divisiveness to the fishery and complicates certain matters (some of which Gerry already eluded to) more than they already are. Second it focuses again on catch and not reproduction which again in my opinion is the wrong focus. We're not addressing the primary problem hurting the fishery if we're to believe the data we have to work with is remotely and directionally correct. While I agree we should be open-minded to all suggestions, just my quick thoughts on the suggestion Gerry already replied to.