Where are all the ling!

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Again no one wants to hear it but until you remove the commercial pressure from every &^%^$%# species in the ocean, they are all subject to over harvest and being depleted. The Russians and small mesh netters DESTROYED the ling and whiting fishery along with the cod and mackerel many years ago and it's never rebounded and never will without addressing the continuous beating they take from commercial pressure. Every fishery with today's technologies are in danger.

I agree to a point dakota... We still had nice fishing in deep water in the Mud Hole and on wrecks for many years even after the 80's and 90's.. I started noticing the decline even in deep water maybe 5-6 years ago... I think they started getting hit too hard year round even in rocky areas and on deep water wrecks by head boats and charters because they were the "only game in town" at times.. They just don't get any breaks these days... same thing with Blackfish.. Tog were not fished for all winter years ago the way they are today.. Now the ones that stay active are the only fish available from Dec through the winter.. It seems when one species goes down others follow because of added pressure.. I don't know what the answer is.. There;s just too much pressure on too few fish.. bob

[Ling Slinger]

Dogs and to a lesser extent pout, scallopers and habitat shifting due to warmer water temps.

Draggers took their hit but that was in the 70s/80s/early 90s and ling had a chance to recover, which they did in the 2000s. Now it's these other factors in my opinion

[Reelron]

Let me throw my two sense in the hat! While I do believe that fishing pressure does play a big part in some species getting fished out i also believe that every species has cycles. Cycles of abundance and cycles of scarcity. In some case a species gets scarce and boom here comes all the doom & gloomers! Then up jumps NMF and we all take up golf!

Originally Posted by Reelron

Let me throw my two sense in the hat! While I do believe that fishing pressure does play a big part in some species getting fished out i also believe that every species has cycles. Cycles of abundance and cycles of scarcity. In some case a species gets scarce and boom here comes all the doom & gloomers! Then up jumps NMF and we all take up golf!

If your theory holds water then we must be in a 40 year cycle for ling and whiting because that's about how long it's been since it crashed.

[Inishmore3]

The Ling are gone. The Fluke and Sea Bass regulations ended Ling fishing as we used to know it.

It's very sad. If this industry was a stock, your broker would urge you to sell.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Inishmore3

The Ling are gone. The Fluke and Sea Bass regulations ended Ling fishing as we used to know it.

It's very sad. If this industry was a stock, your broker would urge you to sell.

Please elaborate.. You think its because of the restrictions imposed, and then boats targeted ling all summer??/.. Just wondering.. Thats kind of the way I am thinking... bob

[Blind Archer]

I' ve enjoyed the era of the LB pier, magic hour boats and right off the jettys. Like Dakota said, I've witnessed miles and miles of juvenile fish floating behind our trawlers, not the russians. Multiply that by the # of boats x the number of trawls x the # of days and you have wiped out a fishery. THe number of floaters is difficult to even describe.

Originally Posted by bulletbob

I agree to a point dakota... We still had nice fishing in deep water in the Mud Hole and on wrecks for many years even after the 80's and 90's.. I started noticing the decline even in deep water maybe 5-6 years ago... I think they started getting hit too hard year round even in rocky areas and on deep water wrecks by head boats and charters because they were the "only game in town" at times.. They just don't get any breaks these days... same thing with Blackfish.. Tog were not fished for all winter years ago the way they are today.. Now the ones that stay active are the only fish available from Dec through the winter.. It seems when one species goes down others follow because of added pressure.. I don't know what the answer is.. There;s just too much pressure on too few fish.. bob

Back in the 60's and 70's there were more party boats and recreational boats targeting whiting and ling than there are today. It's not even close. Every port Highlands, Belmar, Point Pleasant had bottom fishing boats targeting them in the spring and fall during the day as well as a number of boats which ran the long gone "Magic Hour" trips from 3-9 during the fall. Who remebers the fishery every year at the cedars with flounder and ling when they came in to spawn. Every party boat in the highlands was in on that fishery to start the spring season. It NEVER effected the biomass! And until the Russians cleaned the bottom of them they were as abundant as any fish I've ever seen. For anyone who isn't old enough to have experienced those days, you have no idea how tremendous a fishery it was year in year out. The numbers were staggering. Both ling and whiting were both wiped out in a few years by commercial pressure. And while the commercial pressure has been reduced because the fishery was destroyed, it hasn't stopped. I've seen on at least a half dozen occasions in the last five years heading to the canyons acres of small whiting and ling floating on the surface from continued dragging. These are 5-6 inch fish which aren't marketable, dead discard by commercial vessels. The biomass was destroyed and we still allow unlimited netting! In my opinion, this has nothing to do with climate change, habitat change or anything else. These fish have very predictable habits and are an easy target for today's technology and are being wiped out one species after another.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Back in the 60's and 70's there were more party boats and recreational boats targeting whiting and ling than there are today. It's not even close. Every port Highlands, Belmar, Point Pleasant had bottom fishing boats targeting them in the spring and fall during the day as well as a number of boats which ran the long gone "Magic Hour" trips from 3-9 during the fall. Who remebers the fishery every year at the cedars with flounder and ling when they came in to spawn. Every party boat in the highlands was in on that fishery to start the spring season. It NEVER effected the biomass! And until the Russians cleaned the bottom of them they were as abundant as any fish I've ever seen. For anyone who isn't old enough to have experienced those days, you have no idea how tremendous a fishery it was year in year out. The numbers were staggering. Both ling and whiting were both wiped out in a few years by commercial pressure. And while the commercial pressure has been reduced because the fishery was destroyed, it hasn't stopped. I've seen on at least a half dozen occasions in the last five years heading to the canyons acres of small whiting and ling floating on the surface from continued dragging. These are 5-6 inch fish which aren't marketable, dead discard by commercial vessels. The biomass was destroyed and we still allow unlimited netting! In my opinion, this has nothing to do with climate change, habitat change or anything else. These fish have very predictable habits and are an easy target for today's technology and are being wiped out one species after another.

Yes I remember it well.. Never thought I'd see the day when 6 or 8 ling would be a decent days catch.. We caught 6 or 8 ling/whiting within 3 minutes on a decent day years ago... I agree the fishing is still being impacted by the commercial netting, and wish there was an answer.. Here in NY state Wegmans has those tiny whiting on ice all the time, about $6-7 a pound in the round last I remember.. 6-8 inches long.. The same size as the Peruvian Smelt some of us use for fluke bait. I guess some people just pan fry or bake them whole.. Heads, fins-ass-gills etc..... Its actually heartbreaking for me to see.. The few fish that ARE left being netted are just a click above the friggin' larval stage, and people buy and eat them like that... Spearing/rainfish next??.. Why not?.. Just as much meat on the damn bones...bob

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Yes I remember it well.. Never thought I'd see the day when 6 or 8 ling would be a decent days catch.. We caught 6 or 8 ling/whiting within 3 minutes on a decent day years ago... I agree the fishing is still being impacted by the commercial netting, and wish there was an answer.. Here in NY state Wegmans has those tiny whiting on ice all the time, about $6-7 a pound in the round last I remember.. 6-8 inches long.. The same size as the Peruvian Smelt some of us use for fluke bait. I guess some people just pan fry or bake them whole.. Heads, fins-ass-gills etc..... Its actually heartbreaking for me to see.. The few fish that ARE left being netted are just a click above the friggin' larval stage, and people buy and eat them like that... Spearing/rainfish next??.. Why not?.. Just as much meat on the damn bones...bob

Bob,

Couldn't agree with you more. I've seen the same size whiting at King's, Wegman's, Whole Foods and Shop Rite and in some cases their not as big as smelts. It boggles my mind how a fishery has collapsed so much and the powers to be allow these fish to be brought to market. Almost everyone in the 60's and 70's would fish with a hook running off the sinker and two or three dropper hooks. How may times did you come up with two or three whiting on the higher droppers and a huge ling of the bottom hook. On the Long Branch pier, when the tide came in and it got dark thousands if not tens of thousands of fish flooded in under the lights every night attracted by the bait. It was like clock work in the fall / early winter until the water got too cold. You'd catch 6-7 fish within five minutes!

There's no doubt restrictions on one species effects the pressure on other species. Years ago you never saw fish markets like you do today. There wasn't a demand. Most people ate chicken or meat period. You didn't have the health crazed world we live in today with the high demand for fish....it was unheard off. There weren't specialty stores like Wegman's, Whole Foods, Costco, King's and how many other. When markets were developed for fish one by one populations started to decline. Prices for fresh fish and or Sashimi have gone through the roof. And while I agree for every fishery destroyed it puts more pressure on the remaining fisheries, the common denominator of all these is commercial over harvest....period.

I wish everyone on the board like Blind Archer just mentioned had just one chance to experience what the whiting and ling fishery was like in the 60's and 70's. There were fish everywhere and there was a significant recreational/ party boat presence but it didn't put a dent in the biomass. You could catch as many ling and whiting as you wnated from the end of many Monmouth County jetties in the fall or from the jetties at Shark River and Manasquan Inlets. Once the foreign fleets arrived and with the build up of the domestic commercial harvest it was wiped out. You can't suck the bottom clean, destroy habitat in the process, kill off the young of the year and expect any fishery to survive. These fisheries have succumb to complete disregard for the resource and decisions made to supply a growing world wide demand for fish and complete disregard for the health of the stocks.

I don't know what the answer is but you can't pound these fish the way they're being pounded today and expect any other result than the collapse of one fishery after another. I'm amazed there's so many bunker around if you ever look at the amount that are harvested by the reduction boats. One day in May or June visit the Co-op's on Channel Drive in Point Pleasant and witness how many bunker are off loaded from these boats. It's shocking! If bunker weren't such prolific breeders that's another fishery that would be on the balls of it's ass.

It's a scary time for our fisheries and it seems like every year another fishery is being threatened and pushed the brink of collapse.