Cormorants

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I did see the pictures. However, none of these species are endangered in any way, and I have yet to see evidence of damage caused by cormorant droppings in my own outings.

Exactly! Not "yet" I can't make it any easier for you to understand. Go research it on Google.

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

Exactly! Not "yet" I can't make it any easier for you to understand. Go research it on Google.

I did, actually. And as an ecology student, you do not need to lecture me on the dangers of introduced species or invasive species. To my knowledge, these birds have had no negative ecological impact in New Jersey. Which is, unless I miss my guess, what this particular forum is dedicated to. There has been no study in New Jersey regarding their impact, or any changes made by them. The only issue is the one faced by sportsmen, which does not matter one whit from an environmental standpoint.

The birds were not always in New Jersey? I sincerely doubt that. Just because you do not hit something as often as a deer with your car does not mean they are not here. How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

[acabtp]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

they're super wary, so it definitely is pretty hard to see the coydogs with your own eyes... but my trail cam sees them ALL the time. in denville.

just wild animals trying to do their thang

[Ol Pedro]

Cormorants are smart birds. When you put easily caught food in front of them they will take advantage of it. Small shallow impoundments help them catch their prey. They are like a Fox in the Henhouse. Corner the prey and pounce. Depredation permits are only a temporary fix. Spring Trout Season doesn't last that long in my home waters as there are no holdovers. Putting up with the occasional Trout being eaten for three or four weeks isn't that big a deal to me. Hatchery Trout are dumb at first and easy pickings. The local population of fish seem to be fine with the birds present.Too bad they taste like SH!+ or there wouldn't be a problem. Peta would be selling shirts saying "Love Cormorants don't eat them".

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I did, actually. And as an ecology student, you do not need to lecture me on the dangers of introduced species or invasive species. To my knowledge, these birds have had no negative ecological impact in New Jersey. Which is, unless I miss my guess, what this particular forum is dedicated to. There has been no study in New Jersey regarding their impact, or any changes made by them. The only issue is the one faced by sportsmen, which does not matter one whit from an environmental standpoint.

The birds were not always in New Jersey? I sincerely doubt that. Just because you do not hit something as often as a deer with your car does not mean they are not here. How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

LOL! You're an ecology student? Really? Well then you should know if Cormorants have been here In NJ all along or not. Well "student" here is some homework for you. I'm including a link to a study done in Ohio back in 2006 that should put this link to rest. Once again let me point out that I'm NOT saying kill them all but their numbers are increasing. Also it's not just the "stocked trout" (or as you put it just a sport fish) that they birds eat it's all kinds of fish. This report also shows how THEY ARE DESTRUCTIVE to plant life which you claimed they were not. I'm guessing your just a freshman and don't know any better.

However, you were right on one thing. No study has been done in NJ. Care to guess why? That's because until recently they had not been in NJ in any large numbers. Now they are and now is the time to act before they become a much larger problem like in the Great Lakes Region.

BTW Fish and Game does admit to coyotes in NJ and has for some time.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/coyote_info.htm

The Cororant report is 196 pages. Enjoy the read and I wish you well with your degree.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/midwestbi...CCOfinalEA.pdf

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

LOL! You're an ecology student? Really? Well then you should know if Cormorants have been here In NJ all along or not. Well "student" here is some homework for you. I'm including a link to a study done in Ohio back in 2006 that should put this link to rest. Once again let me point out that I'm NOT saying kill them all but their numbers are increasing. Also it's not just the "stocked trout" (or as you put it just a sport fish) that they birds eat it's all kinds of fish. This report also shows how THEY ARE DESTRUCTIVE to plant life which you claimed they were not. I'm guessing your just a freshman and don't know any better.

However, you were right on one thing. No study has been done in NJ. Care to guess why? That's because until recently they had not been in NJ in any large numbers. Now they are and now is the time to act before they become a much larger problem like in the Great Lakes Region.

BTW Fish and Game does admit to coyotes in NJ and has for some time.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/coyote_info.htm

The Cororant report is 196 pages. Enjoy the read and I wish you well with your degree.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/midwestbi...CCOfinalEA.pdf

I was already aware of the study in Ohio; that was kind of the point of 'no study in New Jersey.' Sorry if that was too subtle for you. The coyote bit is news to me. I have not been involved in the hunting game for some time, so I do not check up on that sort of thing very often. The stocked trout, however, seem to be the only thing people care about. The birds are not having a negative impact in New Jersey except to sportsmen, who should know better.

They are native to this part of the country, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because there are more of them around does not mean they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They are taking advantage of natural resources like everything else. More resources is inevitably going to lead to more birds. Is that really so complicated?

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I was already aware of the study in Ohio; that was kind of the point of 'no study in New Jersey.' Sorry if that was too subtle for you. The coyote bit is news to me. I have not been involved in the hunting game for some time, so I do not check up on that sort of thing very often. The stocked trout, however, seem to be the only thing people care about. The birds are not having a negative impact in New Jersey except to sportsmen, who should know better.

They are native to this part of the country, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because there are more of them around does not mean they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They are taking advantage of natural resources like everything else. More resources is inevitably going to lead to more birds. Is that really so complicated?

If you were aware of that study then why would you say they are not destructive to plant life? Which is a huge part of that study. Seriously, stop making yourself look bad. First the coyote comment and now this. All I have done here is quote facts based on studies done by United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Wildlife Services and the United States Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Services. Not once have you posted any proof of anything. Just your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Again good luck in that degree.

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

If you were aware of that study then why would you say they are not destructive to plant life? Which is a huge part of that study. Seriously, stop making yourself look bad. First the coyote comment and now this. All I have done here is quote facts based on studies done by United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Wildlife Services and the United States Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Services. Not once have you posted any proof of anything. Just your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Again good luck in that degree.

You have posted no evidence whatsoever of any of this occurring in New Jersey. Which, again, is what this entire forum is dedicated to. A species that destroys one ecosystem can have no effect whatsoever on another. New Jersey and Ohio are not the same place. Do you know how to read a map? When New Jersey has done a (preferably independent, but I will settle for a government one) study on the effects of your (incorrectly) labeled 'invasive species,' then I will make a judgement call. Until then, you have absolutely nothing to complain about, because your claims are baseless.

Show me the New Jersey ponds devoid of fish because the cormorants have eaten them all. Show me the tons of rotted vegetation. Show me the cormorants out-competing all of the local fish-eating birds. Oh, wait. You cannot.

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

You have posted no evidence whatsoever of any of this occurring in New Jersey. Which, again, is what this entire forum is dedicated to. A species that destroys one ecosystem can have no effect whatsoever on another. New Jersey and Ohio are not the same place. Do you know how to read a map? When New Jersey has done a (preferably independent, but I will settle for a government one) study on the effects of your (incorrectly) labeled 'invasive species,' then I will make a judgement call. Until then, you have absolutely nothing to complain about, because your claims are baseless.

Show me the New Jersey ponds devoid of fish because the cormorants have eaten them all. Show me the tons of rotted vegetation. Show me the cormorants out-competing all of the local fish-eating birds. Oh, wait. You cannot.

Well at least your better at geography than you are at proving your point. Jersey is not Ohio. Good job. You're right I haven't posted anything directly about NJ. I didn't feel that was necessary since so many others had already posted it. Have you even read all the posts? DENLON "Denny" posted he's been fishing over 60 years and never saw them until now and in large numbers. TOGHEAD also posted he had been fishing on his lake for over 20 years and until now he had not seen any and now has 20 of them on his lake. ALMAINK points out Colonial Lake in Lawrenceville has been taken over. I guess all these people are liars then right? I guess the study in Ohio is all a big scam since it was done by our gov't? (I'm guessing you have trust issues with them based on your whole "I prefer an independent study, but I will settle for a government one" comment.)

You made the comment that my claims are baseless? I have posted the link to the Ohio study to show what these birds can and will do if their numbers continue to increase. Baseless? Really? The other comment "Show me the cormorants out-competing all of the local fish-eating birds. Oh, wait. You cannot" Well I can actually, that Ohio study you claim you are so "aware of" also shows how can Cormorants have displaced species of birds such as black-crowned night-herons, egrets, great blue herons,gulls etc. It's all in that study.

So ATH1089 we don't need to do a NJ study. I thinking asking the people of this great state to buck up hundreds of thousands of tax dollars (probably more like well over a million) to do a study on something that has already been done is just crazy and irresponsible. However, I guess you rather wait until thousands of Cormorants at our lakes like the lakes in SC. (As posted by NJ219bands) They killed over 11,000 birds! Why that many? It's because like Ohio they didn't control the populations of these birds until it was too late. We don't need a study we just need to be proactive.

You may think you know what you are talking about be you clearly don't. I get it though you're a young college student who thinks he has all the answers. (I probably was the same way) Most of us on here having been fishing long before you were even born. So I think you should really listen to what many have posted on here about how they are increasing in numbers and becoming a real problem. If you want to prove we are all wrong and that they have always been here and it's just angler problem. Please post any link(s) that shows your point of they have always been in NJ. Otherwise, hit the books and maybe do a paper on it.

[buzzbaiter]

Speaking of animal control...I think cougars should be re-introduced to cull the deer herds. Damn things are everywhere. Oh wait cougars sneak up on you, attack from behind and grab your neck. Check that. Lets have year round hunting. Good idea!