Cormorants

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

These birds have not always been in NJ. Also trout are not the only fish these birds eat in large numbers. (Eskimo posted pics in an earlier thread that shows they eat just about anything) I never said let's wipe them off the face of the earth. However, they are a problem to many states across the country and Canada. It's not just a Jersey thing. Also the reason I used the feral pig as a comparison is Cormorants do cause damage to trees shrubs and vegetation. This is due to the large amount of guano/shit they produce. The pigs may be more destructive.....but you yourself said humans allowed them to become a problem. So all I'm saying is control the numbers before it's to late.

I did see the pictures. However, none of these species are endangered in any way, and I have yet to see evidence of damage caused by cormorant droppings in my own outings.

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I did see the pictures. However, none of these species are endangered in any way, and I have yet to see evidence of damage caused by cormorant droppings in my own outings.

Exactly! Not "yet" I can't make it any easier for you to understand. Go research it on Google.

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

Exactly! Not "yet" I can't make it any easier for you to understand. Go research it on Google.

I did, actually. And as an ecology student, you do not need to lecture me on the dangers of introduced species or invasive species. To my knowledge, these birds have had no negative ecological impact in New Jersey. Which is, unless I miss my guess, what this particular forum is dedicated to. There has been no study in New Jersey regarding their impact, or any changes made by them. The only issue is the one faced by sportsmen, which does not matter one whit from an environmental standpoint.

The birds were not always in New Jersey? I sincerely doubt that. Just because you do not hit something as often as a deer with your car does not mean they are not here. How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

[acabtp]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

they're super wary, so it definitely is pretty hard to see the coydogs with your own eyes... but my trail cam sees them ALL the time. in denville.

just wild animals trying to do their thang

[Ol Pedro]

Cormorants are smart birds. When you put easily caught food in front of them they will take advantage of it. Small shallow impoundments help them catch their prey. They are like a Fox in the Henhouse. Corner the prey and pounce. Depredation permits are only a temporary fix. Spring Trout Season doesn't last that long in my home waters as there are no holdovers. Putting up with the occasional Trout being eaten for three or four weeks isn't that big a deal to me. Hatchery Trout are dumb at first and easy pickings. The local population of fish seem to be fine with the birds present.Too bad they taste like SH!+ or there wouldn't be a problem. Peta would be selling shirts saying "Love Cormorants don't eat them".

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I did, actually. And as an ecology student, you do not need to lecture me on the dangers of introduced species or invasive species. To my knowledge, these birds have had no negative ecological impact in New Jersey. Which is, unless I miss my guess, what this particular forum is dedicated to. There has been no study in New Jersey regarding their impact, or any changes made by them. The only issue is the one faced by sportsmen, which does not matter one whit from an environmental standpoint.

The birds were not always in New Jersey? I sincerely doubt that. Just because you do not hit something as often as a deer with your car does not mean they are not here. How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

LOL! You're an ecology student? Really? Well then you should know if Cormorants have been here In NJ all along or not. Well "student" here is some homework for you. I'm including a link to a study done in Ohio back in 2006 that should put this link to rest. Once again let me point out that I'm NOT saying kill them all but their numbers are increasing. Also it's not just the "stocked trout" (or as you put it just a sport fish) that they birds eat it's all kinds of fish. This report also shows how THEY ARE DESTRUCTIVE to plant life which you claimed they were not. I'm guessing your just a freshman and don't know any better.

However, you were right on one thing. No study has been done in NJ. Care to guess why? That's because until recently they had not been in NJ in any large numbers. Now they are and now is the time to act before they become a much larger problem like in the Great Lakes Region.

BTW Fish and Game does admit to coyotes in NJ and has for some time.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/coyote_info.htm

The Cororant report is 196 pages. Enjoy the read and I wish you well with your degree.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/midwestbi...CCOfinalEA.pdf

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

LOL! You're an ecology student? Really? Well then you should know if Cormorants have been here In NJ all along or not. Well "student" here is some homework for you. I'm including a link to a study done in Ohio back in 2006 that should put this link to rest. Once again let me point out that I'm NOT saying kill them all but their numbers are increasing. Also it's not just the "stocked trout" (or as you put it just a sport fish) that they birds eat it's all kinds of fish. This report also shows how THEY ARE DESTRUCTIVE to plant life which you claimed they were not. I'm guessing your just a freshman and don't know any better.

However, you were right on one thing. No study has been done in NJ. Care to guess why? That's because until recently they had not been in NJ in any large numbers. Now they are and now is the time to act before they become a much larger problem like in the Great Lakes Region.

BTW Fish and Game does admit to coyotes in NJ and has for some time.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/coyote_info.htm

The Cororant report is 196 pages. Enjoy the read and I wish you well with your degree.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/midwestbi...CCOfinalEA.pdf

I was already aware of the study in Ohio; that was kind of the point of 'no study in New Jersey.' Sorry if that was too subtle for you. The coyote bit is news to me. I have not been involved in the hunting game for some time, so I do not check up on that sort of thing very often. The stocked trout, however, seem to be the only thing people care about. The birds are not having a negative impact in New Jersey except to sportsmen, who should know better.

They are native to this part of the country, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because there are more of them around does not mean they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They are taking advantage of natural resources like everything else. More resources is inevitably going to lead to more birds. Is that really so complicated?

[Bassload]

Originally Posted by ATH1089

I was already aware of the study in Ohio; that was kind of the point of 'no study in New Jersey.' Sorry if that was too subtle for you. The coyote bit is news to me. I have not been involved in the hunting game for some time, so I do not check up on that sort of thing very often. The stocked trout, however, seem to be the only thing people care about. The birds are not having a negative impact in New Jersey except to sportsmen, who should know better.

They are native to this part of the country, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because there are more of them around does not mean they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They are taking advantage of natural resources like everything else. More resources is inevitably going to lead to more birds. Is that really so complicated?

If you were aware of that study then why would you say they are not destructive to plant life? Which is a huge part of that study. Seriously, stop making yourself look bad. First the coyote comment and now this. All I have done here is quote facts based on studies done by United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Wildlife Services and the United States Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Services. Not once have you posted any proof of anything. Just your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Again good luck in that degree.

[ATH1089]

Originally Posted by Bassload

If you were aware of that study then why would you say they are not destructive to plant life? Which is a huge part of that study. Seriously, stop making yourself look bad. First the coyote comment and now this. All I have done here is quote facts based on studies done by United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Wildlife Services and the United States Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Services. Not once have you posted any proof of anything. Just your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Again good luck in that degree.

You have posted no evidence whatsoever of any of this occurring in New Jersey. Which, again, is what this entire forum is dedicated to. A species that destroys one ecosystem can have no effect whatsoever on another. New Jersey and Ohio are not the same place. Do you know how to read a map? When New Jersey has done a (preferably independent, but I will settle for a government one) study on the effects of your (incorrectly) labeled 'invasive species,' then I will make a judgement call. Until then, you have absolutely nothing to complain about, because your claims are baseless.

Show me the New Jersey ponds devoid of fish because the cormorants have eaten them all. Show me the tons of rotted vegetation. Show me the cormorants out-competing all of the local fish-eating birds. Oh, wait. You cannot.

[buzzbaiter]

Speaking of animal control...I think cougars should be re-introduced to cull the deer herds. Damn things are everywhere. Oh wait cougars sneak up on you, attack from behind and grab your neck. Check that. Lets have year round hunting. Good idea!