Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Bill
H4R, I'm not makin the discard information up, the graph is from federal on board observers. Who should we believe, you or someone whose job includes among other things monitoring discards and compliance among commercial vessels? My money is on the on board observers.
NMFS would have to take these ridiculously high discard numbers into account in their landings. This says the man who has maintained all these years every number published by NMFS can't be correct but now this number had to be added to commercial landings why, because you say so. First it should be added to discard mortality, not landings, and second if you do the research it wasn't reported as you know what commercial landing have been running at commercially for years. I'm sure NMFS just posted the information to piss off the commercials and open themselves up to another lawsuit by that sector.
I agree, to them every fish is money. But at the same time every fish that brings the highest catch value back at the dock is more money. This coming from someone who not long ago posted that commercials target the largest fish because that's where the money is. Can't have it both ways my friend. I'm sure their nets aren't geared to catch only the largest and miss the massive amount of younger age classes that become collateral damage and tossed back overboard dead. NEFSC maintains an 80% mortality rate for commercial discards per tow. I'm sure it's higher and in the winter it's 100% as fish harvested are taken care of first and then the fish being discarded are shoveled overboard. How many fish coming up from 100 plus ft. depths in 30 degree temps do you actually think survive after being towed around and left on deck for a half hour?
It’s pretty evident there is a movement of the main biomass of this fishery. The movement that should have been filling in here was absolutely crushed by the commercial fleets from the Carolina’s .
Thank you, you're making my point. Commercials are killing the southern portion of the biomass in our waters and eventually they'll be forced to move north when they do the same thing to our local biomass they did to the Chesapeake biomass years ago. Then they'll have no choice but to move further north and target the last remaining biomass that's left. The northerly biomass isn't growing, the southerly portion is contracting, exactly what I've been saying. And I thought you said the biomass wasn't back filling here because of New Jersey's recreational slot limit, now you're saying it is in fact because of local commercial pressure which I agree with among other things. Got it, thanks for the clarification and getting it right.
Again yes there's more commercial presence this year than ever and they are catching their quotas which were reduced by 43%. You honestly believe they're keeping smaller less valuable fish after taking a 43% haircut in quota. It's economics 101 my friend, and you question the accuracy of my information and opinions. Not going to get into a debate, stated my theory and time will tell whether it's correct or not but as I said, this fishery can't be managed the way it is and survive.
Name one other fishery that kills all breeders, has a year round commercial presence, kills millions of younger age classes in the processes, pounds the stock not only during their spawn but year round, has insane amounts of waste involved and God only knows how much illicit netting is taking place and I'll be more prone to listen to your arguments. Just name one fishery which has survived those conditions? That shouldn't be a difficult request for someone of your talents and pulse on the fishery.
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How longs it been since you actually caught a fluke , and filleted it ?
Even when we had the slot the last two years all the fluke had eggs in them .
There were no males out of hundreds of fish we caught .
Newer study’s believe males hardly come inshore . So should we make it a minimum of 15 miles before you’re allowed to fluke ?
I agree they allow commercials to fish at times when they are stacked up , and easier to catch including the spawn .
But you’re constantly stretching even your own imagination to double or triple what actually happens .
Fg monitors pretty well what goes on here with local boats , not so sure how well with out of state boats .
As far as them only catching their quotas because it was lowered , there are more boats fishing here daily than ever .
Reason is most guys that scalloped now aren’t because of those quota cuts .
Fluke is the only thing available , so they are doing that .
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I also didn’t say fish weren’t filling in here because of the slot .
I said the absence of age class fish that would be 18” was hammered the last two years .
Plenty of fish above 19” and under 17”
Data charts are only as good as the info used to make them .
Your data is always skewed , and that’s why it never got the traction it should have recieved .
