Fur-fish-game publishes delaware river flathead nights by ken beam

[KenBeam]

Hey Gang if ya get a chance, pick up a copy of the August Fur-Fish-Game Magazine.......
(I`m pretty psyched! I`ve been in 8 magazines but this was the 1st time that my story was the Featured Article!)







https://i.ibb.co/Wz1hjqn/Ken-Beam-fe...ugust-2020.jpg

Ken.....great story and trophy catch. Congratulations! Haven't met one flathead fisherman who wasn't stoked catching a fish of a lifetime. These fish are strong, top of the predator list and a challenge for anglers to catch since most are caught during nocturnal hours and it takes time, patience, the right tackle and the right location. You don't just drop a line in the water, it takes effort.

They're a prized fish and NJ and other states should embrace them as opposed to killing them. Every fishery has a natural order and food chain, flatheads are no different. Some fish are at the top of the food chain, some middle and some bottom. They don't seem to have hurt local fisheries in this area in big river systems. As Thmyorke1 mentioned in the other thread, small systems or lakes might be a different issue and I wouldn't propose introducing flatheads to these systems but big river systems with tons of forage fish and structure is where they belong and they will give the recreational angling community some of the best fishing opportunities in local waters to fight and land a true trophy. Personally I believe there's enough forage for them to co-exist with other species stocked or indigenous to the systems for flatheads to have a place in our waterways. Either way, they're not going away anytime soon so we might as well get used to their existence.

Since there's no stocking programs, these fish cost the state nothing. Pa runs tournaments every weekend for flatheads and it helps fuel the economy. Why can't NJ do the same? To anyone opposed to flatheads, how is stocking trout in musky infested waters any different than stocking walleye, small mouths or anything else in the Big D with flatheads. There's probably more trout killed every year from predator fish and cormorants in all the lakes and streams in NJ than there are forage fish by flatheads. Where do you draw the line?

[AndyS]

Sad to think these invasive fish will decimate the American Shad in the river at some point. A shad run that has lasted for hundreds of years coming to an end. A scientist described it as humans homogenizing the earth, sorry no cheer from me, see what the next 10 to 15 years hold. This post is as exciting as reading about how great Snakeheads are.

Originally Posted by AndyS

Sad to think these invasive fish will decimate the American Shad in the river at some point. A shad run that has lasted for hundreds of years coming to an end. A scientist described it as humans homogenizing the earth, sorry no cheer from me, see what the next 10 to 15 years hold. This post is as exciting as reading about how great Snakeheads are.

Andy I just replied to your pm, please read it. Here's two quotes from an article run in NJ Spotlight made by NJDEP. You can google it if for yourself if you don't believe my post.

Number of juvenile shad monitored in summer count highest in 38 years, according to state DEP......and......

The New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection said Monday that the number of juvenile shad counted at various location in the Upper Delaware this summer was at its highest in 38 years of monitoring. The approximately 24,500 young shad were about three times as many as a year earlier, and almost 10 times the number recorded in 2013.

In this year’s spring shad run, when fish return from the ocean to spawn in the river’s shallow upstream water, the total number of fish recorded at a fishery in Lambertville, Hunterdon County, was 1,262, the ninth-highest in 92 years, the DEP said.

The caption of the article was "Shad Surge in Delaware River Thanks to Pollution Controls, Dam Removal" written in October 2017.

Flatheads have a negligible impact on shad either the adults in the spring or the juveniles in the fall when they migrate back to the ocean. Your comment is completely unsubstantiated and actually contrary to the facts. As flatheads have gained in numbers, we've experienced record shad runs over the last ten to twenty years if not longer. What your saying is simply not true.

When the shad run starts, flatheads are just becoming active from their dormant wintering posture. By the time they become active before the spawn, most shad have already ascended the upper reaches of the Delaware. And if you believe flatheads are exerting energy at night in the fall chasing two to three inch juvenile shad on the surface, I assure you they're not. I've harvested a few flatheads in my time, I never found a shad in the stomach contents.....not once.

I would challenge any scientist to prove otherwise. It's precisely that disinformation that puts a black cloud over this fishery. I'll go as far as asking anyone on the site if they ever found an adult american shad in a flathead's stomach or juvenile ones for that matter.

[Fluken-Around]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Sad to think these invasive fish will decimate the American Shad in the river at some point. A shad run that has lasted for hundreds of years coming to an end. A scientist described it as humans homogenizing the earth, sorry no cheer from me, see what the next 10 to 15 years hold. This post is as exciting as reading about how great Snakeheads are.

I agree!! I know there exciting to fish for and fun to catch but they DO NOT belong in our ecosystem and will 100% cause problems to other native species in the future!

I dont know why man constantly thinks he knows what's best for mother nature. She made it so all ecosystems are balanced with predator and prey relationships so healthy populations continue!!

[CMA719]

I'm seeing a lot of good info on this thread and on the other (D and R Canal Report) and have already learned a lot from reading what's been shared.

One thing I want to ask but as a disclaimer, I'm not challenging anyone's knowledge or opinions, it's a genuine question that I don't know the answer to: what are the checks and balances that keeps the top fish predators from growing out of control?

Is it a limit of food, or do other factors like breeding areas and niche habitat play a bigger role? I guess the biggest question is whether the flathead population will eventually reach some kind of equilibrium in the Delaware and other places where it's been introduced like they have in their native range?

CMA my opinion. Lot of factors determine rate of expansion, food source, adequate habitat and reproductive ability probably lead the way. If one species takes over and depletes the food source, one of three things will happen. Growth will be stunted, fish will cannibalize one another or they'll relocate to areas with sufficient food source. Nature in other words will find a way and balance things out. In that sense I agree with the poster who questioned why man thinks he knows what's best for Mother Nature but the argument he's making supports not categorizing Flatheads as invasive. Actually just the opposite, let nature's balance figure it out.

Case in point, when northern pike were introduced into the Passaic, everyone thought they'd kill everything else. The Passaic today has the most diverse robust fishery it's had in 100 years. All you need to do is look at JD Tuna's posts. Guarantee those fish aren't eating bugs either. The Passaic is teeming with life. Perch, sunnies, blue gills, carp, bull heads, channels, eels, small mouths, large mouths, suckers, chubs etc.. Yet the state stocks 4 - 6 thousand pike a year. Eating machines. You think the pike Justin is catching aren't eating a significant amount of resident fish to attain those sizes. Yet the system is thriving. How is that any different than flatheads.

The people who fish and target flatheads appreciate the sport they provide. They might harvest a few but they release the majority because its a challenging fishery which occurs primarily during nocturnal hours and for the most part it's a trophy fishery. Calling the fishery invasive and asking anglers to keep fish they caught won't make a dent because they are very rarely a by-catch during the day and most people who fish for them don't kill them. If the goal is to control the biomass by harvesting more, open it up, run tournaments, get more anglers involved and more fish will be harvested. The way the state is going about it now has zero chance of working and is the most idiotic way of trying to control the population.

I also believe nature as always plays a hand. Flatheads like warmer water, skinny water or deep water with a lot of rubble and structure like downed trees. My experience is they prefer slow moving water like eddy's, scour holes and slow moving stretches. They hide out for the most part during the day and patrol and feed at night. When the water gets below 60, they become less active. 50 they become dormant. I don't believe Flatheads will travel much further up the Delaware beyond the Gap because of water temperatures and different habitat. There's no where near the population north of the Gap as there is in southern stretches. The biomass has been concentrated in the lower reaches of the Big D as well as the Schuylkill and Susquehanna. Will there be expansion.....yes. Will it be significant, personally I don't believe so.

Like I said earlier, Flatheads have had zero impact on the American Shad run. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. I would challenge proof they have had a negative impact on any species at all. For all we know, like pike they may actually strengthen stocks by thinning the herd causing less competition for forage. In other words the weaker fish succumb to predation and the strong survive to perpetuate the stock. That's essentially how it works in the wild with everything. If it was habitat being destroyed by Flatheads or any other species, my opinion and reply would be different. But this is let Mother Nature do what she does best by allowing her to balance itself out.

Andy I know your worried about the Delaware leading to the D&R leading to your beloved Raritan and the effects Flatheads might have. The Schuylkill has 100 times more flatheads in it and a robust small mouth and musky fishery, is loaded with carp, eels and even brown trout in the upper reaches. Don't think the Raritan is going to succumb to the almighty Flathead so I wouldn't worry but if the state wants to do something preemptive, they're absolutely going about it the wrong way.

That's my final say on the matter. If you disagree, than we disagree. Either way like I said, Flatheads aren't going away anytime soon and titling them invasive is as useless as tits on a bull.

Know I said it was my last post on the matter but facts need to be known. Sick of people making baseless posts about fisheries with innuendos which are simply not true. Andy you sent me a pm saying the rate of decline in the small mouth population on the Susquehanna is dropping at an alarming rate and blaming it on flatheads. Read the following articles which took me 5 minutes to google and tell me where the decline in indigenous species is attributed to flatheads or for that matter where flatheads are even mentioned. Following article was just written.

https://www.sungazette.com/news/outd...uehanna-river/

Then read the following. Article was written June 2018.

https://www.mcall.com/news/pennsylva...608-story.html

Then read the attached article regarding the impacts the Columnaris Virus had on small mouths in the Schuylkill and Delaware which absolutely devastated both fisheries.

https://www.nj.com/times-sports/2011...e_smallmo.html

Not one of these causes regarding declines in not only small mouths but other species have anything to do with Flatheads. They're all environmentally related with devastating results on the small mouth fishery and other species especially in the Delaware River system. The Sun Gazette article actually states:

Although a blast to catch, they are an invasive species from the Chesapeake Bay area. These catfish are primary predators to anything swimming in the warmer sections of the Susquehanna.

"Flatheads were found to hang around the river dams, feeding primarily on red breast sun fish. While smallmouth bass are not on the flathead catfish menu, the warmer spring weather may cause the catfish to invade more of the waterways, Smith said the catfish were not found in the West Branch and Lycoming Creek yet, they may be on the way."

I would bet Musky eat more small mouths and walleye in the Delaware River than Flatheads so based on the logic being tossed around here, I guess we should declare Muskies invasive and mandate killing them as well.

Point is stop posting information if it can't be backed up by facts. I'm actually glad NJ has considered the flathead invasive because it's no going to make a dent in a fishery I and many thoroughly enjoy and there's no proof whatsoever these fish are causing a toll on indigenous species F&G would want you to believe. One female flathead produces up to 100,000 eggs a year. Do you honestly think labeling them invasive is going to remove 100,000 fish from the population. I highly doubt 100,000 fish are caught a year much less killed. Even if you consider the impacts of natural mortality, it's a losing battle if the state wants to better control the population by turning a blind eye to the problem. Wouldn't it be more prudent to acknowledge what's happening, open the fishery to tournaments, promote harvest and maybe even run tournaments in May / June prior to the primary spawn before the big girls drop their eggs. The same time of year when fish are most highly concentrated and most vulnerable to hook and line fishing.

Or the state can continue clicking their heels three times and hoping the problem resolves itself which it won't. Absolutely guaranteed. Personally I don't believe flatheads pose a problem and get a bad rap but if the state thinks otherwise then manage the problem as opposed to what they're currently doing which is nothing.

[Fluken-Around]

Originally Posted by dakota560

CMA my opinion. Lot of factors determine rate of expansion, food source, adequate habitat and reproductive ability probably lead the way. If one species takes over and depletes the food source, one of three things will happen. Growth will be stunted, fish will cannibalize one another or they'll relocate to areas with sufficient food source. Nature in other words will find a way and balance things out. In that sense I agree with the poster who questioned why man thinks he knows what's best for Mother Nature but the argument he's making supports not categorizing Flatheads as invasive. Actually just the opposite, let nature's balance figure it out.

Case in point, when northern pike were introduced into the Passaic, everyone thought they'd kill everything else. The Passaic today has the most diverse robust fishery it's had in 100 years. All you need to do is look at JD Tuna's posts. Guarantee those fish aren't eating bugs either. The Passaic is teeming with life. Perch, sunnies, blue gills, carp, bull heads, channels, eels, small mouths, large mouths, suckers, chubs etc.. Yet the state stocks 4 - 6 thousand pike a year. Eating machines. You think the pike Justin is catching aren't eating a significant amount of resident fish to attain those sizes. Yet the system is thriving. How is that any different than flatheads.

The people who fish and target flatheads appreciate the sport they provide. They might harvest a few but they release the majority because its a challenging fishery which occurs primarily during nocturnal hours and for the most part it's a trophy fishery. Calling the fishery invasive and asking anglers to keep fish they caught won't make a dent because they are very rarely a by-catch during the day and most people who fish for them don't kill them. If the goal is to control the biomass by harvesting more, open it up, run tournaments, get more anglers involved and more fish will be harvested. The way the state is going about it now has zero chance of working and is the most idiotic way of trying to control the population.

I also believe nature as always plays a hand. Flatheads like warmer water, skinny water with a lot of rubble and structure like downed trees. They hide out for the most part during the day and patrol and feed at night. When the water gets below 60, the become less active. 50 they become dormant. I don't believe Flatheads will travel much further up the Delaware beyond the Gap because of water temperatures and different habitat. There's no where near the population north of the Gap as there is in southern stretches. The biomass has been concentrated in the lower reaches of the Big D as well as the Schuylkill and Susquehanna. Will there be expansion.....yes. Will it be significant, personally I don't believe so.

Like I said earlier, Flatheads have had zero impact on the American Shad run. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. I would challenge proof they have had a negative impact on any species at all. For all we know, like pike they may actually strengthen stocks by thinning the herd causing less competition for forage. In other words the weaker fish succumb to predation and the strong survive to perpetuate the stock. That's essentially how it works in the wild with everything. If it was habitat being destroyed by Flatheads or any other species, my opinion and reply would be different. But this is let Mother Nature do what she does best by allowing her to balance itself out.

Andy I know your worried about the Delaware leading to the D&R leading to your beloved Raritan and the effects Flatheads might have. The Schuylkill has 100 times more flatheads in it and a robust small mouth and musky fishery, is loaded with carp, eels and even brown trout in the upper reaches. Don't think the Raritan is going to succumb to the almighty Flathead so I wouldn't worry but if the state wants to do something preemptive, they're absolutely going about it the wrong way.

That's my final say on the matter. If you disagree, than we disagree. Either way like I said, Flatheads aren't going away anytime soon and titling them invasive is as useless as tits on a bull.

The Big D is a 10 min ride from my house and I fish in and around the gap area from boat and shoreline regularly. And I have to agree that the flathead populations are mainly in the southern stretches of the big D. I still have not caught one in and around the gap area but I think just a matter of time. Not saying their not in there but I haven't caught one yet.

Have fished underneath and around the route 80 bridge a half a dozen times at the Gap for flatheads at night from a boat without as much as a hit. That area is perfect with huge boulders, drop offs, fast moving water flowing into a deeper drop off and eddie's as well as bridge abutments and log jams. Have caught a number of channel cats but never a flathead. I know guys who target flatheads who have caught decent size fish at the bends below the gap alongside route 80 before it transitions into the rapids around the island. These guys target flatheads, fish from boats, fish at night and occasionally they hook some quality fish but it's far and few in between. I personally don't see flatheads moving much beyond that stretch of the Delaware due to a number of variables but that's just my personal opinion. That particular stretch is absolutely loaded with channels especially in the deep water bend on the NJ side parralel with Rt 80 at the Gap but not so much flat heads. They're there just not in the numbers they are in the southern stretch of the river.