Tried the livers, but the herring scored

[Bruce Litton]

And not on hybrids. Don't know why they took absence, but we got a nice walleye. You can click on the link for photos. Beautiful day on the lake, still hunkered down with work schedule, but we got out there.

Water 60-62, a more protected drop-off killed the herring at 35 feet, so we headed out into the main lake, where turnover was more complete, as expected. And that's where the walleye hit.

Guess that's it for me on the lake this fall. I'd love to take part in the meetup, but have too much to do. Sure intend to get out and ice fish at least a few times, at least twice on LH.

We've got some great places to visit in Jersey. I'd rather feel more as if I live there than I do, but the words and the photos of the post prove I get there, and it's always waiting on us.

http://littonsfishinglines.blogspot....ssibility.html

[Ken Lyons]

The theRmocline doesn't usually become absorbed until surface temperatures reach about 55. This has to do with the physical properties of water. Too, it is normally ted as being a flat horizontal plane but it doesn't always comply. It can be tilted by the prevailing wind at times. I would be curious to know how all this fits or doesn't with your experience.

[Eskimo]

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Nice article on your blog.

My personal opinion is that an angler's choice of bait is far less important than being in the right place (where the fish are) at the right time (when the fish are feeding).

A fish in a feeding mode will hit a wide variety of baits if it is placed in front of them, whether it is alive, dead, or a lure. A couple of years ago while perch and crappie fishing from my kayak, I had the experience of having a school of hybrid stripers 'blitzing' a school of herring near my kayak. All I had for bait was a coffee can of worms and some curly-tail jigs, but every time I dropped a bait or lure over the side of my kayak, it was instantly smashed. For a half-hour or so, I was bailing hybrids in water shallow enough to stand up in. At the boat ramp, other anglers didn't believe me when I told them I caught-and-released over a dozen big hybrids that evening until I showed them the pics on my phone.

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[waynedane]

Originally Posted by Bruce Litton

And not on hybrids. Don't know why they took absence, but we got a nice walleye. You can click on the link for photos. Beautiful day on the lake, still hunkered down with work schedule, but we got out there.

Water 60-62, a more protected drop-off killed the herring at 35 feet, so we headed out into the main lake, where turnover was more complete, as expected. And that's where the walleye hit.

Guess that's it for me on the lake this fall. I'd love to take part in the meetup, but have too much to do. Sure intend to get out and ice fish at least a few times, at least twice on LH.

We've got some great places to visit in Jersey. I'd rather feel more as if I live there than I do, but the words and the photos of the post prove I get there, and it's always waiting on us.

http://littonsfishinglines.blogspot....ssibility.html

Funny I was there Wednesday and didn't get a touch on herring. Couldn't keep the hybrids off the liver tho, could only use 1 rod👍

[NJSquatch]

Originally Posted by Ken Lyons

The theRmocline doesn't usually become absorbed until surface temperatures reach about 55. This has to do with the physical properties of water. Too, it is normally ted as being a flat horizontal plane but it doesn't always comply. It can be tilted by the prevailing wind at times. I would be curious to know how all this fits or doesn't with your experience.

I have been marking a thermocline ~ 34' in the main lake

[Ken Lyons]

That the herring died at that depth would seem to confirm it. I for no good reason would have not guessed it that deep but it does work it's wat deeper as the season goes on.

[Bruce Litton]

Originally Posted by Ken Lyons

The theRmocline doesn't usually become absorbed until surface temperatures reach about 55. This has to do with the physical properties of water. Too, it is normally ted as being a flat horizontal plane but it doesn't always comply. It can be tilted by the prevailing wind at times. I would be curious to know how all this fits or doesn't with your experience.

55 seems about right. Main lake gets more wind. Also, the water's colder underneath than shallower water of more protected drop-offs. Back in late August, we marked fish as deep as 33 feet--one anyway, as I remember--on the main lake. That surprised me, especially with this summer's heat. I wouldn't rule out a spring down there, but I was not under that impression, and the bottom depth was at least 40 feet.

[Bruce Litton]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

.


Nice article on your blog.

My personal opinion is that an angler's choice of bait is far less important than being in the right place (where the fish are) at the right time (when the fish are feeding).

A fish in a feeding mode will hit a wide variety of baits if it is placed in front of them, whether it is alive, dead, or a lure. A couple of years ago while perch and crappie fishing from my kayak, I had the experience of having a school of hybrid stripers 'blitzing' a school of herring near my kayak. All I had for bait was a coffee can of worms and some curly-tail jigs, but every time I dropped a bait or lure over the side of my kayak, it was instantly smashed. For a half-hour or so, I was bailing hybrids in water shallow enough to stand up in. At the boat ramp, other anglers didn't believe me when I told them I caught-and-released over a dozen big hybrids that evening until I showed them the pics on my phone.

.

I agree. When they're feeding, they're feeding. But chumming is supposed to do two things--draw fish in by the smell, and get them feeding. However, since the lake has minimal current, it begs the question--how do fish smell that liver catfood at a distance? I don't mean they don't. I just wonder how, or even if. But if herring nearby get interested and swarm, hybrids can certainly sense that school by lateral line. And if nearby hybrids swarm, same. Also, they may smell herring, at least up close, which may be part of the reason why they're better than shiners, because of high Omega 3 fatty acids, oil they can scent. That is debatable, since scales protect the herring, but I'd be willing to bet scent is subtly involved.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Bruce Litton

However, since the lake has minimal current, it begs the question--how do fish smell that liver catfood at a distance? I don't mean they don't. I just wonder how, or even if. But if herring nearby get interested and swarm, hybrids can certainly sense that school by lateral line. And if nearby hybrids swarm, same. Also, they may smell herring, at least up close, which may be part of the reason why they're better than shiners, because of high Omega 3 fatty acids, oil they can scent. That is debatable, since scales protect the herring, but I'd be willing to bet scent is subtly involved.

Hmmm...good question. I don't know.

Theoretically, even in still water the scent will eventually disperse by the process of Brownian Motion. That's the slow dispersal of a material suspended in a liquid (or gas) by collisions of molecules of the surrounding medium. By this theory, the molecules that form the scent of the chum should keep expanding from its source until it reaches equilibrium throughout the entire body of water.

In reality there are probably other forces at work expediting the expansion of the scent such as the oils in the chum being buoyant in the water, causing them to separate and rise away the solid particles in the chum.

The herring might be producing a scent in the water. Some fish release a scent when they are stressed or injured that serves as a warning to other fish that there are predators active in the area. This may also draw in other predators looking to get in on the action.
Here is an article about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/he...-too.html?_r=0

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[Bruce Litton]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Hmmm...good question. I don't know.

Theoretically, even in still water the scent will eventually disperse by the process of Brownian Motion. That's the slow dispersal of a material suspended in a liquid (or gas) by collisions of molecules of the surrounding medium. By this theory, the molecules that form the scent of the chum should keep expanding from its source until it reaches equilibrium throughout the entire body of water.

In reality there are probably other forces at work expediting the expansion of the scent such as the oils in the chum being buoyant in the water, causing them to separate and rise away the solid particles in the chum.

The herring might be producing a scent in the water. Some fish release a scent when they are stressed or injured that serves as a warning to other fish that there are predators active in the area. This may also draw in other predators looking to get in on the action.
Here is an article about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/he...-too.html?_r=0

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I remember Brownian motion from high school--just not what it is. Thanks for the update. My ADHD never allowed me conceptual grasp. Question is--how long does that dispersion take. And oil is easy to imagine floating, not dispersing so well.

The NYT article, 2012. I remember this theory from way, way back...as if it were a Will Ryan "Scientific Angler" ditty in Field & Stream, only I was informed long before Will got the post with the magazine...maybe even before I fished with him while a student at Hampshire College & that long before his current stint. Ever since I read this theory, I've been careful about fish with broken skin, like when a hook catches a bass in the face...but of course, I release them anyway...piques curiosity though.