Another dead whale today …..

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Point made

Like I said, do you think everyone in the videos lies??. Not sure thats a great line of thought.. I mean there ARE motion pictures of the live fishing at those towers, and it IS very good fishing... Unless of course you think they are faking the videos for some strange reason... I don't think those towers should be put up out there personally... however, to think that they aren't going to hold a lot of fish is not realistic.. They will be loaded with life in a few years after construction,, Thats just a fact, doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the towers, pro or con... They will have a lot of life around them.. It remains to be seen if NY/NJ anglers will be allowed to access it however... You can be against the towers but still acknowledge they may provide good fishing... bob

[Ol Pedro]

Originally Posted by 2na

Why are we so divided here? Both sides think they're smarter or more moral than the other. The simple truth is, you don't have to look hard to find "proof" to argue either side of this debate. "Scientists" and authors from both sides of the fence can distribute (or keep silent) whatever bias propaganda they want to establish their point. It's embarrassing society has become so gullible...

SHORTS

Your right Shorts. I'll just go put the marinade on a tuna loin and keep my thoughts to myself.

[Blind Squirrel]

Originally Posted by Ol Pedro

B.S., Were you born before 1955? Lesser of 2 evils just as evil? What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Can the turbines generate power at over 10 kt winds? Still old and cold my friend.

I was born in 1943, which I'm pretty sure was before 1955. What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Gas is a non-renewable pollutant, and hydroelectric works great when climate change hasn't dried up the water supply.
Wind turbines add green energy to power grids from a wind speed of 6-9 mph to a wind speed of ~55 mph, and their systems store the power when output exceeds demand.
Stay warm, my young friend.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Blind Squirrel

I was born in 1943, which I'm pretty sure was before 1955. What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Gas is a non-renewable pollutant, and hydroelectric works great when climate change hasn't dried up the water supply.
Wind turbines add green energy to power grids from a wind speed of 6-9 mph to a wind speed of ~55 mph, and their systems store the power when output exceeds demand.
Stay warm, my young friend.

You’re reading articles that try and make this energy sound more efficient than it is .
The wind turbine electricity starts to stack at 10 knots . MOST current transmission lines won’t allow the electricity to flow correctly above that .
Our current grids dont have the capacity or the upgrades needed to store the power . So they are pretty much an in use supplier .
All the current projects here in the US haven’t made it 5 years let alone 25 years .

It’s not only the sources of power that need to get better , it’s the grid itself .
All the rebuilds were just that . Rebuild for what’s needed today , not enough of what’s needed in the future .
.
While it all seems good on paper , real life it hasn’t been even close to being perfected .
. And while they throw out numbers of mega watts created etc it’s not even close to what’s being used here daily .
.

[tautog]

Originally Posted by Blind Squirrel

"Just ignore all that research about naval sonar and whale injuries over the last 30 years" and blame it on wind turbine projects started in the last couple of years.

Well the whales are dying where the survey boats are using similar sonar to the sonar that was proven to cause serious problems to whales and dolphins through decades of peer reviewed research. Yet we are told, without any peer reviewed research, that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals. Since there has been no noticeable increase in boat traffic in the NY Bight and fairly stable whale populations, what would explain the astronomical increase in whale deaths over the last 6 weeks. Either an incredibly unlucky streak for whales or sonar testing. Barring any evidence otherwise, Occam's Razor would indicate that one cause is exponentially more likely than a massive increase in boat strikes which would require many more elements to go wrong.

[Gumada]

Originally Posted by Blind Squirrel

Offshore wind turbines are profitable as long as they continue to generate electricity, and have an estimated working lifespan of 25 to 35 years before some of their moving parts need to be replaced. Their support structure is similar to an offshore drilling platform's, and marine life thrives around them indefinitely.
Please provide more information on the NOAA 2016 declaration you referenced. They seem to be well aware of any possible harm to marine life that might result from the installation & operation of offshore wind turbines...
Offshore Wind Energy: Protecting Marine Life

Go on NOAAs site and search UME, there have been plenty of whales killed to pause wind projects until it’s found what is causing this UME. btw that life span is for land based turbines. What happens when they are exposed to saltwater ?

How Long Do Wind Turbines Last?
There is very little data on modern turbines reaching their life expectancy so it is largely unknown how long they will be operable. Modern wind turbines have over 8,000 parts (broken down into three major components) and blades as long as 262 feet, the same length as the wingspan of an Airbus [2]. With higher efficiency modern turbines due to additional electronic components and a more powerful and massive design, there is a higher chance of something going wrong with more potential points of failure and overall added stress and load on the structure.

Warning signs from the UK…

In 2017 alone, more than 1000 cetaceans (whales, porpoises, dolphins) washed up dead or dying on beaches around the UK.
It was an unprecedented number.
‘Baffled’ scientists pondered on the reason for this catastrophic mortality event, and theories for the demise of these magnificent creatures ranged from Royal Navy sonar noise to ship strike and plastic pollution, all of which may contribute to whale deaths - but none of which alone could satisfactorily explain the huge increase in numbers.
For many environmentalists like myself, (though not the ones caught up in the green dream machine), it seemed that there might be an obvious correlation between the rapid proliferation of wind farm construction around the British coast and the whale strandings. One that at least needed to be explored and debated. But in spite of the fact that we already know there is a link between manmade ocean noise and disorientating deafness in whales, the wind industry’s public relations machine quickly quashed rumours that they were to blame - and the UK public bought into the deceit.

AND THE SUBSIDIES NEED TO CONTINUE TO RISE TO KEEP THEM PROFITABLE.

https://www.ref.org.uk/ref-blog/370-...ntinue-to-rise

[Pennsy Guy]

Originally Posted by 2na

Why are we so divided here? Both sides think they're smarter or more moral than the other. The simple truth is, you don't have to look hard to find "proof" to argue either side of this debate. "Scientists" and authors from both sides of the fence can distribute (or keep silent) whatever bias propaganda they want to establish their point. It's embarrassing society has become so gullible...

SHORTS

Yep, two sides to any problem. Just remember, no one alive in the world today need worry about the oceans boiling or the trees bursting into flame from global warming. Oh, and those wind mills will make great artificial reefs after one of our 3 day Nor'easters or cat 3-4 hurricanes puts them on the ocean floor.
Piss and moan, bitch and complain all you want BUT you're not going to stop them.
Enjoy life to the fullest; we're only here for the blink of an eye time-wise....
Oh, I'm 85 and just waiting for the Gambler's tuna schedule to post. I worry about the big stuff--how many trips going to be blown out. See you on the water...

[Blind Squirrel]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

You’re reading articles that try and make this energy sound more efficient than it is .
The wind turbine electricity starts to stack at 10 knots . MOST current transmission lines won’t allow the electricity to flow correctly above that .
Our current grids dont have the capacity or the upgrades needed to store the power . So they are pretty much an in use supplier .
All the current projects here in the US haven’t made it 5 years let alone 25 years .

It’s not only the sources of power that need to get better , it’s the grid itself .
All the rebuilds were just that . Rebuild for what’s needed today , not enough of what’s needed in the future .
.
While it all seems good on paper , real life it hasn’t been even close to being perfected .
. And while they throw out numbers of mega watts created etc it’s not even close to what’s being used here daily .
.

Electricity either flows or it doesn't, and transmission lines are conductors. Generators work the same way regardless of what's driving them, and if our current grids have insufficient storage capacity, we add it. Wind is cheap, clean, & abundant, and has been used to generate electricity since the late-19th Century. It doesn't meet current demand, but is our largest source of renewable energy.
If you're reading articles that make wind power sound less efficient & practical than it is, they're most likely coming from the fossil fuel industry.
DOE Finds Record Production and Job Growth in U.S. Wind Power Sector August 16, 2022

[Blind Squirrel]

Originally Posted by Gumada

Go on NOAAs site and search UME, there have been plenty of whales killed to pause wind projects until it’s found what is causing this UME. btw that life span is for land based turbines. What happens when they are exposed to saltwater ?

How Long Do Wind Turbines Last?
There is very little data on modern turbines reaching their life expectancy so it is largely unknown how long they will be operable. Modern wind turbines have over 8,000 parts (broken down into three major components) and blades as long as 262 feet, the same length as the wingspan of an Airbus [2]. With higher efficiency modern turbines due to additional electronic components and a more powerful and massive design, there is a higher chance of something going wrong with more potential points of failure and overall added stress and load on the structure.

Warning signs from the UK…

In 2017 alone, more than 1000 cetaceans (whales, porpoises, dolphins) washed up dead or dying on beaches around the UK.
It was an unprecedented number.
‘Baffled’ scientists pondered on the reason for this catastrophic mortality event, and theories for the demise of these magnificent creatures ranged from Royal Navy sonar noise to ship strike and plastic pollution, all of which may contribute to whale deaths - but none of which alone could satisfactorily explain the huge increase in numbers.
For many environmentalists like myself, (though not the ones caught up in the green dream machine), it seemed that there might be an obvious correlation between the rapid proliferation of wind farm construction around the British coast and the whale strandings. One that at least needed to be explored and debated. But in spite of the fact that we already know there is a link between manmade ocean noise and disorientating deafness in whales, the wind industry’s public relations machine quickly quashed rumours that they were to blame - and the UK public bought into the deceit.

According to NOAA, the two biggest causes of UME are "undetermined" (49% of total) and biotoxins (18%), hardly a clear indictment of the wind turbine industry. Oddly enough, there's no hand-wringing from your British source about the heavy toll that coal- and oil-powered electricity generation takes on wildlife, or what hi-rises, domestic cats, and window panes do to bird populations. We know what happens when offshore drilling platforms are exposed to saltwater, yet they're still being built and used. Oil spills are a clear environmental hazard, but I've yet to hear of a wind or solar spill that caused any problems.
I share your concern for our environment, my friend, and will keep a close eye on the related research.

[Blind Squirrel]

Originally Posted by tautog

Well the whales are dying where the survey boats are using similar sonar to the sonar that was proven to cause serious problems to whales and dolphins through decades of peer reviewed research. Yet we are told, without any peer reviewed research, that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals. Since there has been no noticeable increase in boat traffic in the NY Bight and fairly stable whale populations, what would explain the astronomical increase in whale deaths over the last 6 weeks. Either an incredibly unlucky streak for whales or sonar testing. Barring any evidence otherwise, Occam's Razor would indicate that one cause is exponentially more likely than a massive increase in boat strikes which would require many more elements to go wrong.

Who told you "that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals"? Offshore wind turbines & sonar testing have been around for a lot longer than six weeks.