What's the deal with the RFA????

[reason162]

Originally Posted by Joey Dah Fish

Being a constant combative instigator and pass judgement on organizations in addition too insinuating wrong doing is not only not productive it borders on slander. I'd like to think you and Abrasian are decent people that are frustrated with our regs. So please refrain from instigating. It would be much appreciated thank you

Do you actually think everyone here is or ought to be "frustrated" with the regs?

Thank you for proving my point. You as an administrator for this site, making it abundantly clear that any dissent from the vocal majority opinion is "instigating." There was a time I considered NJfishing to be an open forum for discussion, but that's obviously not the case any more.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by reason162

Right, there's the solution: ban anyone who dissents until NJfishing is a perfect echo chamber for the chorus.

Reason - A few things here to clear the air.

- Opinions are one thing, casting false accusations are another. You can come and state your opinion but if you do, give your reasons.... EG: Cuz has an opinion that differs from mine on the RFA. Although I disagree with that opinion, he stated that he did not want to give his money to them because they have people on the payroll. What he didn't do was try and discredit them by making false accusations like "look at the loans on line xxx of this report" and walk away after throwing the grenade. If Abrasion had done is homework before posting something like that, he would have found the truth. Since he did not, I have to waste my time and others to defend it??

- Some people come here and just instigate... They add no value to the site other then causing drama and more work for me trying to contain it. If that's all someone wants to do they are not welcome here.... Could I have banned Cuz from the site or removed his posts because we have a difference of opinion? I could have however, not only did Cuz give his reasons, he contributes to and adds value to the site by responding to people's questions, putting up fishing reports etc. His sole purpose is not to instigate. Same holds true for your Reason.. Yes we likely have differences of opinion but looking at your posts, you add value to the site.

(Hey Cuz )

- I also have a pet peeve for people who are always negative. You know the type... Never anything good to say and the same person in a meeting that seeks to tear others down, says it can't be done and at the same time is not willing to roll up their sleeves and do anything themselves other then complain or disparage. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Lastly - Don't pick on my little brother Joe or I'll have to tell my Mom

[reason162]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Reason - A few things here to clear the air...

Gerry, point taken, and thanks for your response.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by reason162

Gerry, point taken, and thanks for your response.

Glad we were able to find some common ground here Reason and thanks for your response too...Just so you know, I really do struggle with and take no joy in banning someone here. It's a measured decision I make over time, not based on one post or an opinion that differs from mine, but on the whole of a person based on what they post and how they conduct themselves.

A dirty job but someone has to do it

[TomKaye]

To me, the whole point of this thread is summed up as follows:

Quote Gerry : "That means that the RFA spent $367k or 76 cents of every dollar on political action and lobbying"
Decent ROI on my small contribution. Much better than most.

I am a small contributor but will continue to send my few bucks annually to RFA and SSFFF

I'm afraid of missing someone, but THANK YOU to guys like Dales, Dakota,
Captain Ron & you Gerry for all you guys do. I hope our heirs can enjoy the sport we all love.

Tom K.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by TomKaye

To me, the whole point of this thread is summed up as follows:

Quote Gerry : "That means that the RFA spent $367k or 76 cents of every dollar on political action and lobbying"
Decent ROI on my small contribution. Much better than most.

I am a small contributor but will continue to send my few bucks annually to RFA and SSFFF

I'm afraid of missing someone, but THANK YOU to guys like Dales, Dakota,
Captain Ron & you Gerry for all you guys do. I hope our heirs can enjoy the sport we all love.

Tom K.

Thank you Tom. Every little bit helps and so does your encouragement.

[Joey Dah Fish]

Originally Posted by reason162

Do you actually think everyone here is or ought to be "frustrated" with the regs?

Thank you for proving my point. You as an administrator for this site, making it abundantly clear that any dissent from the vocal majority opinion is "instigating." There was a time I considered NJfishing to be an open forum for discussion, but that's obviously not the case any more.

I think almost every one of us here are frustrated with the regs. I think it's important do what we can to change them.

[Gerry Zagorski]

And I would add even if you think the fishery is in trouble, you should be frustrated with the regs and how the Fluke fishery has been mis managed for 30 years now. If you believe their numbers, the fishery was in good shape and the bio mass was on the rise until they started increasing our size limits. Their data, not mine.

NJDEP announcement July 24, 2017

The 2017 Season 5 Summer Flounder (Sept-Oct) by-catch fishery will open on September 1, 2017 with a by-catch trip limit of 100 pounds. By-catch landings may not exceed ten percent, by
weight, of all species landed and sold. The 2017 Season 5 (Sept-Oct) directed fishery will open on Sunday, September 3, 2017
with a directed trip limit of 250 pounds six days a week or 750 pounds two days a week or 1,500 pounds one day a week.

If you have any questions, please contact the Bureau of Marine Fisheries at 609-748-
2020.

Recreational season closes 9/5/17 and the fall offshore commercial fishery is just ramping up right at the heart of their offshore migration which happens to coincide with the prime spawning period.

Excerpt from Division of Fish and Wildlife: Fluke can grow to a length of more than 30 inches and weigh in excess of 20 pounds, although 1 to 3 pound fish are more typical with an 8 pounder being considered large. The New Jersey State Record was set in 1953 and weighed 19 pounds, 12 ounces. Juvenile fluke grow very fast and can reach a length of 9 to 12 inches during their first year. A 15 inch fluke is generally in its third year of life and will weigh between one and two pounds.

Most fluke are sexually mature in their third year and spawn in the fall or early winter while migrating offshore or on their wintering grounds. The number of eggs a female fluke has is directly proportioned to her size, with large fish being able to release as many as 4 million eggs in a single season.

These fish migrate in highly concentrated schools during the fall journey to their offshore wintering grounds. It's no different than why we see an influx of fish in July and August on full moon tides which bring large bodies of fish in from the east. Highly concentrated schools, primary spawn, recreational fishery closed yet these fish get pounded by commercials this time of year every year. Years ago there wasn't a winter offshore fishery for fluke, now there's a year round market. As mentioned, with the significantly higher prices larger fluke fetch at market, larger fish are being harvested and the smaller fluke being caught in the same trawls are tossed overboard dead. I can assure you the 1,500 lbs of allowable harvest one day a week will be comprised of predominantly the larger more valuable breeders which are the future of our fishery. How many smaller fish we all released throughout the summer are killed hygrading commercial catches? And that doesn't begin to factor in the negative impact this fall / winter fishery has on the spawn by destroying eggs or stressing out the spawning stock biomass. All this while recruitment statistics show over an 80% relative decline over the last 25 years. Someone please explain the logic in allowing this practice to routinely occur every year while the fishery continues it's decline. Money and politics........inexcusable.

We should all be concerned with the mismanagement of this fishery in spite of what our political beliefs are. We're being asked to believe a 25-year trend will miraculously alter it's course and reverse itself by applying the same management methodologies of managing catch limits through size increases which is precisely whats created the problem we're faced with today. 2017 regulations will do nothing other than perpetuate and further intensive that problem.

For the record, in general I believe in the need for fisheries management and conservation efforts. World is too large and technology too advanced for resources to sustain themselves without some form of oversight in most cases. However there's a responsibility that goes along with that charter and when a governing body delivers the results NMFS and ASMFC have over the trailing 15 years as SSB has steadily been declining it's time for a change. The ONLY way we get there is through political and scientific avenues. It's precisely why efforts from groups like RFA and SSFFF should be applauded and not questioned. Based on their continued and ongoing efforts, we stand a chance. Without it, we have zero voice and no hope whatsoever.

I mentioned in an earlier post if you thought '17 regulations were bad, get ready for '18. Expect another 30 - 40% cut visa vie size limit increases, possession limit reductions, overall quota reductions, shortened season etc. It's the equivalent of Ground Hog Day. Until a slot limit is introduced, breeders are protected and the unabated harvest of fluke primarily during their offshore migration and spawn are eliminated, this fishery will continue it's decline and head toward a complete collapse.