Where are all the ling!

[duranautic al]

lets not overthink this...every living thing feeds on another,much like the winter flounder population in our rivers and bays have been hurt by conmorants and striped bass.The ling population along w/many other species,is being decimated by DOGFISH.

[Reelron]

I Thought this was a post questioning the disappearance of Ling? I'm not sure where or how Whiting got into the discussion? I still blame the Russians for decimating our Whiting to the point of virtual extinction. Never fished the LB Pier, but I do recall fishing headboats with my Dad and putting 6-7 hook rigs on then realing in 6-7 whiting at a time! So maybe it is my fault?

But I have had the same experience as JMURR. Maybe not the same boat, but I would say up until this past summer it was not uncommon, on a 6 man charter, to have the mate cutting Ling all the way back to the dock and them have to wait for him to finish! This summer & fall it wasn't quite that good. So the cycle must be beginning?

[fishingbuddy]

[Capt. Lou]

Ling were always a better spring , summer fall fishery species as I remember ,50's, 60's & 70's this ground fishery was strong, but U had other species that took precedent over ling . Mackerel , Cod , whiting were readily available . In fact most PB's in those days would seek out whiting, cod & mackerel not target ling, hell even tog took a back seat to these species.
Foreign fleets started this demise but since the 200 mile limit was enacted our own commercial fleet was given carte Blanche & finished the job .
One ?, where were all the regs needed then , &'how the hell did R n R anglers get any blame for this debacle at all !
We did not fish out anything not even close , that's why fisheries management is such a joke, when they could have slowed this down they chose to do nothing except cave into commercials demands at our expense .
As mentioned this dog fishery again grossly mismanaged , so now these voracious feeders are in huge supply & eating everything in site . There in bays & anywhere in between whether ur 50 miles or 5 miles off the beach , stretching hundreds of miles up N down the coast ! How did this happen one guess??

Originally Posted by Reelron

I Thought this was a post questioning the disappearance of Ling? I'm not sure where or how Whiting got into the discussion? I still blame the Russians for decimating our Whiting to the point of virtual extinction. Never fished the LB Pier, but I do recall fishing headboats with my Dad and putting 6-7 hook rigs on then realing in 6-7 whiting at a time! So maybe it is my fault?

But I have had the same experience as JMURR. Maybe not the same boat, but I would say up until this past summer it was not uncommon, on a 6 man charter, to have the mate cutting Ling all the way back to the dock and them have to wait for him to finish! This summer & fall it wasn't quite that good. So the cycle must be beginning?

Ling and whiting years ago were almost always found together. Catch one and you'd catch the other. That's why party boats advertised them as "Ling and Whiting" trips. They were both effectively wiped out at the same time by foreign and domestic draggers. The only reason the original poster mentioned ling and not whiting is that whiting completely disappeared from local waters and never rebounded after the onslaught by commercials.

Interesting mention about juvenile ling living in scallops, I never heard or knew of that if it is indeed a fact. If so though, what has happened to the ocean scallop industry? Look at the below statistics concerning domestic scallop harvest.

Catch: Annual landings increased from about 8,000 mt meats in the mid-1980s to over 17,000 mt meats in 1990-1991, and then fell to between 5,000 and 8,000 mt meats during 1993-1998 (Figure B6). Landings increased considerably from 1998-2003, remained high and relatively stable during
2003-2012, and then declined in 2013. US landings during 2004-2013 averaged 25,566 mt meats, about twice the long-term mean.
Discarding occurs due to catch of undersized scallops and high-grading; the latter mainly occurs in 59th SAW Assessment Summary Report 26 B. Sea scallop rotational access areas that are managed under a form of individual allocations. Discards averaged about 969 mt during 1992–2013. Discards were the highest during 2000-2004, peaking at 2,603 mt meats, but have declined since, likely due to changes in gear regulations. Discards are implicitly included in the CASA assessment model as part of the incidental mortality term.

If ling depend on scallops for survival, the harvest increased from on average 8,000 metric tons in the mid 80's to almost 26.000 metric tons average from '04 thru '13! That's more than a 200% increase in harvest. Also look at the reported discard and high-grading, average between '00 and '04, 2,603 metric tons of smaller non marketable scallops thrown back. I love how they use the term high-grading then calling it what it really is which is culling so to be less offensive! 2,603 metric tons equates to almost 6,000,000 pounds of scallops tossed back because of size or culling! 6,000,000 lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at it from a different perspective. I assume these reported numbers are the weigh of scallops after they've been shucked and not still in the shell. A pound approximates about a dozen and a half scallops. If the equivalent of 6,000,000 lbs of meat was discarded at 18 scallops per lb, that translates to 108,000,000 scallops discarded back because of size or culling. Assume just 50% of them had a juvenile ling inside, that's 54,000,000 ling potentially killed as part of just the discard number associated with the annual harvest of ocean scallops! And that's JUST the discard number. Factor in the 26,000 metric tons harvested for the same reason which would have a 100% mortality rate on any ling contained within these shell fish. Conceivably that could be why the fishery has never remotely rebounded from the commercial devastation inflicted in the 70's.

From what someone pointed out, it sounds like scallops are the breeding mechanism of juvenile ling. If so how many juvenile fish are killed each year in that process and how many ling not inside the scallop come up in the nets as by catch. God only knows if the undersized or culled scallops survive when thrown back, I'm assuming not since it's being reported as part of harvest numbers but if there are juvenile ling inside I'm sure a majority if not all end up dead. If commercials are reporting 2,603 metric tons of discard and high-grading, I'd bet that number in actuality is considerably higher.

As long as I've been fishing there's been dogfish. Definitely more today when they protected them but in the 60's and 70's when fishing wrecks there were always dog fish around. And there were massive amounts of ling and whiting as well. Dogfish alone for that reason I don't believe are the culprit but could be contributing to the overall problem since their numbers have increased. The sea scallop theory might also be a more contributing factor when you consider the above data. It doesn't explain whiting never rebounding since to my knowledge juvenile whiting don't use scallops in a similar manner. I still maintain the constant commercial pressure, whether it be in the form of the scallop harvest or ling harvest, is preventing these stocks from rebounding. If everyone witnessed the acres of dead juvenile fish floating behind trawlers in the Mud Hole area every year you'd wonder how there was a single fish left on the bottom. It's an absolute waste of a valuable resource and the primary reason another fishery has been destroyed.

Maybe as mentioned certain party and or charter parts have less pressured spots which hold a better amount of fish but years ago you didn't need spots, fish were EVERYWHERE. I wouldn't for a second interpret that to imply a healthy or rebounding fishery, it's more likely a case of certain areas where commercials can't drop their nets which have a presence of fish. Three or four guys on the Long Branch pier back in the day would catch 600 fish in a night without breaking a sweat, the fishery was that amazing.

[stevelikes2fish]

Originally Posted by Capt. Lou

Ling were always a better spring , summer fall fishery species as I remember ,50's, 60's & 70's this ground fishery was strong, but U had other species that took precedent over ling . Mackerel , Cod , whiting were readily available . In fact most PB's in those days would seek out whiting, cod & mackerel not target ling, hell even tog took a back seat to these species.
Foreign fleets started this demise but since the 200 mile limit was enacted our own commercial fleet was given carte Blanche & finished the job .
One ?, where were all the regs needed then , &'how the hell did R n R anglers get any blame for this debacle at all !
We did not fish out anything not even close , that's why fisheries management is such a joke, when they could have slowed this down they chose to do nothing except cave into commercials demands at our expense .
As mentioned this dog fishery again grossly mismanaged , so now these voracious feeders are in huge supply & eating everything in site . There in bays & anywhere in between whether ur 50 miles or 5 miles off the beach , stretching hundreds of miles up N down the coast ! How did this happen one guess??

Hit the nail right on the head.....100% Done a number of trips past several year. 300-400 plus for 6 guys very easy. Left them biting at noon time......

[fishark531]

All the Ling you want in NH but the problem is NO ONE WANTS THEM

We have had very good to excellent Summer Whiting fishing the last 5 years but lots of drops are loaded and I mean LOADED with Ling and most guys don't want them

Took me years to get guys to accept Whiting but Ling still frowned upon

[Duffman]

If I remember correctly, I thought it has been mentioned that ling do not freeze well?

If that's the case, a 6 pack catches 400 ling, what do you do with 800 fillets?

[Walleyed]

I've found they get a little mushy when froze. I vacuum pack them, that helps. They make great fish cakes and chowders.

[bulletbob]

http://www.gma.org/fogm/Urophycis_chuss.htm

Everything you could possibly want to know about Ling.....bob