Emergency Action on Blueline Tile

[Tunarun]

Originally Posted by Capt Sal Cathy Sea Charters

Offshore 100 miles and limited amount of people on the PB. Expensive and not for everyone. How can we recreational fisherman have an affect that would warrant a reduction like this? Sure isn't anything like fluking in the summer with the amount of angler participation. I started tile fishing in the early seventies with Capt. Lou Puskas on the Gracee 111 out of Barnegat with my dad . Great fishing and I believe there may have been more interest in Tile fishing years ago than today. I think you should do more home work on this subject IMHO. Would you go 80 mi. off shore and be happy with 10 sea bass and your done in one hour?

Thanks Capt for a Great Response too! I truly want to express what this blueline action means to me and the select following of anglers but I should know better...but I have to say something, it's just me. At times, catching bluelines can be like catching cbass n porgies when conditions are good so one looks forward to have something to bite after hours of drifting in the Deep for the elusive Goldens and catching Zippo! When Jeff finally has enough of catching nothing on drops that have produced time and time before but not today, and says Enough!, we know what that means. We will be heading to something shallower, like 450 feet +/-, yes, we call that Shallower and it's game on! So allowing us to only box 7 for a 1 day thru a 2 1/2 day trip is [B][I]Ludacris! This fish is Not Endangered by us, the recreational angler and doesn't need to be protected by the folks sitting behind desks and making decisions that impacts the Livelihood of Jeff and other Captains and our Love. I said this recently, if only our fore fathers would have included this in the Second Amendment in 1791, freedom to keep fish using hook and string(line) along with the right to keep and bear arms! Dennis

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by chico

i think it is a good thing that they are regulating the commercial boats, we all know what happens when only $$$$$ is involved, greed takes over and it is easy for them to wipe out a fishery in no time. Making us pay for their greed is typical of todays "management". One bluelinetile caught by a rec fisherman, has a much bigger financial return to our economy than when that fish is caught by a comm. Everyone from the local motels, eateries, tackle shops, bait and ice suppliers, charter/party boat owners, and their employees, as well as all the manufacturers of the fishing tackle we use all benefit when that tilefish is caught by a rec fisherman. For hire boats want to ensure that the fishery remains healthy for the benefit of their livelihood, commercial boats want to get as many fish in the boat as possible before another boat gets to them first. Just watch "alaska fish wars" tv show and you see the mentality. Limits are not a bad thing, even for recs, but they must take into account firsts and foremost, the reality of fish stocks as well as financial impact on the local economies.

yes!!

[reason162]

Why wait until there's scarcity to impose bag limits? It really is a lose-lose, considering the prevailing opinion re the "science." If the science says stocks are threatened, the science is questioned, or it's just the "feds/big gov" regulation.

There should be bag limits on all species, including sea robins, blowfish ----- everything. Nothing wrong with preemptive conservation, and it sends the (correct) message that every species is valuable to the ecosystem, regardless of its perceived food value to anglers/consumers.

[Capt Sal]

Did you know there are no bones in ice cream? You know enough about this tread to ignored!

[Dave A]

Originally Posted by reason162

Why wait until there's scarcity to impose bag limits? It really is a lose-lose, considering the prevailing opinion re the "science." If the science says stocks are threatened, the science is questioned, or it's just the "feds/big gov" regulation.

There should be bag limits on all species, including sea robins, blowfish ----- everything. Nothing wrong with preemptive conservation, and it sends the (correct) message that every species is valuable to the ecosystem, regardless of its perceived food value to anglers/consumers.

In this case, you sir have no clue! There was NO SCIENCE involved here. Let me repeat it, NO SCIENCE involved. Decisions were made based upon a very questionable stock assessment done in the South Atlantic in 2011. This assessment did not include any of the mid Atlantic canyons. Limits for both commercial and recreational fishermen are necessary BUT they must be based on accurate, reliable science.

[reason162]

Originally Posted by Dave A

In this case, you sir have no clue! There was NO SCIENCE involved here. Let me repeat it, NO SCIENCE involved. Decisions were made based upon a very questionable stock assessment done in the South Atlantic in 2011. This assessment did not include any of the mid Atlantic canyons. Limits for both commercial and recreational fishermen are necessary BUT they must be based on accurate, reliable science.

I was simply pointing out the easy dismissal of the science on this board (and others) even when it's available. If it doesn't agree with preconceived notions/interests...the science must be flawed. Given your premise, if they fail to ever scrape the money together to do a thorough survey in the canyons, no regulations should ever exist. I think that's tomfoolery.

My second point was you don't need data to impose reasonable bag limits on any species, but rather you impose bag limits simply as a matter of conservation principle. Any species is a finite resource, and waiting until there's scarcity to impose limits is just bad policy.

[kurtisb]

I read all the data that was presented and listened to the 2 1/2 hour meeting.

This is all because the commercial guys targeted bluelines last year for the first time. Their take in 2014 increased by a factor of 20 fold over 2013.

They also indicated that they will target them again and land them in NJ because they have no regs.

NJ was asked to put in place regs to keep it a bye catch species at 300 lbs per day but NJ said they cannot do that in time.

Delaware is some how putting regs in place this year as did MD and VA in 2012.

This is a long lived late spawning species that can be destroyed in a short time.

No one wants bluelines to be a commercial targeted species and everyone wants them to stay a bye catch species.

Unfortunately this commitee feels that if the take away from the commercial boats, they must also take away from the recreational boats as well.

[dales529]

Originally Posted by reason162

I was simply pointing out the easy dismissal of the science on this board (and others) even when it's available. If it doesn't agree with preconceived notions/interests...the science must be flawed. Given your premise, if they fail to ever scrape the money together to do a thorough survey in the canyons, no regulations should ever exist. I think that's tomfoolery.

My second point was you don't need data to impose reasonable bag limits on any species, but rather you impose bag limits simply as a matter of conservation principle. Any species is a finite resource, and waiting until there's scarcity to impose limits is just bad policy.

Really? Please help me understand what available science that isn't admitted as flawed by the same governing powers that administer the regulations (Not us) exists. Also explain "easy dismissal" by this board and others. Are you stating we accept science that states overfishing is NOT occurring and the species is NOT overfished but an arbitrary demand of a 33% reduction (Seabass just one example) or worse complete closure is somehow acceptable and not subject to dismissal. Do you mean that Science?

More concerning is your "don't need data to impose reasonable bag limits". Tell that to the people you put out of business. Define reasonable bag limits without "reasonable" or any data. Species although finite to a degree also DO police themselves much like recreational fishermen. If a species is not found in its habitat from previous years does that mean that's its Gone or has it adjusted to new habitat areas. I guess Hurricane Sandy , Bait migrations changes in weather / water temp patterns, lack of boater participation etc etc have nothing to do with anything right. How without Data do you call anything Science or worse say we dismiss it?

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by reason162

I was simply pointing out the easy dismissal of the science on this board (and others) even when it's available. If it doesn't agree with preconceived notions/interests...the science must be flawed. Given your premise, if they fail to ever scrape the money together to do a thorough survey in the canyons, no regulations should ever exist. I think that's tomfoolery.

My second point was you don't need data to impose reasonable bag limits on any species, but rather you impose bag limits simply as a matter of conservation principle. Any species is a finite resource, and waiting until there's scarcity to impose limits is just bad policy.

Listen my friend! No one is trying to discredit you. You just have to do more home work and then you will see this is flawed as almost every thing fisheries management has touched. Also look at it from the perspective of a party boat owner. Panic,no science and too much power. This is what we have and will have for quite some time. It will take quite some time to rectify the system that is in place now. There is no way on gods green earth that a party boat could have an impact on Blueline Tile!!!!!!!!!!

[reason162]

Originally Posted by dales529

Really? Please help me understand what available science that isn't admitted as flawed by the same governing powers that administer the regulations (Not us) exists. Also explain "easy dismissal" by this board and others. Are you stating we accept science that states overfishing is NOT occurring and the species is NOT overfished but an arbitrary demand of a 33% reduction (Seabass just one example) or worse complete closure is somehow acceptable and not subject to dismissal. Do you mean that Science?

More concerning is your "don't need data to impose reasonable bag limits". Tell that to the people you put out of business. Define reasonable bag limits without "reasonable" or any data. Species although finite to a degree also DO police themselves much like recreational fishermen. If a species is not found in its habitat from previous years does that mean that's its Gone or has it adjusted to new habitat areas. I guess Hurricane Sandy , Bait migrations changes in weather / water temp patterns, lack of boater participation etc etc have nothing to do with anything right. How without Data do you call anything Science or worse say we dismiss it?

We simply disagree on what "default" rules should be, in the absence of data. Imo, there ought to be a bag limit on everything, and in the case of blue line tile it wouldn't be a decision made in perfect vacuum, since we do know something about its biology/reproductive rate. I find it very reasonable to impose a default bag limit on newly exploited species while (hopefully) the science is being conducted.

You seem to think that the default rules ought be zero limits, until the data is in. That's fine, but consider in retrospect the days before any size/bag regulations: winter flounder stacked to the brim by the bucketload, hundred-lb gunnysack of bluefish etc etc...your argument would apply in exactly the same way to that obscenity.