Immediate Action Needed Marine Fisheries Reform

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Gerry I think our philosophies and more so our tactics have changed over the years. I delivered on a silver platter the answers to the summer flounder fisheries struggles to organizations you associate with and they not only turned a blind eye on it but in certain cases trashed it because it conflicted with their politics. That combination will never improve fisheries management. Every post I've made on this site regarding fisheries management has always been supported with facts from marine fisheries. If I can't post those findings here than yes we should go our separate ways so please remove my login rights to the site.

That said, I appreciate all the years and wish you nothing but the best.

I wish you the same and you are welcome here, just don't pile on to my posts and create your own... If you're cool with that we're all good.

Most members here are interested in fishing and nothing else, as it should be. I've done more analysis on this fishery than anyone has and the fishery and sport we love is under attack and being lost. I've tried creating awareness through data how the Summer Flounder stocks is being mismanaged exposing the groups responsible for that mismanagement. Everything, and I mean everything, has been supported by pouring through research reports and stock assessments and building tables for the last five years. We're losing the fishery and access and harvest rights of many fisheries because most in the recreational sector have different agendas and management is ignoring the same data science has worked hard to develop to push their own agendas. I've tried unifying recreational groups through data, knowledge and awareness on this site only to have my work ignored due to politics and personal agendas.

It's just a matter of time before our ideologies clash again so while I appreciate your offer, I'm done here. Please delete my login.

Again thanks for the platform and all the good years, but as with everything in life it's time to move on.

[Dclark2]

sent

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Most members here are interested in fishing and nothing else, as it should be. I've done more analysis on this fishery than anyone has and the fishery and sport we love is under attack and being lost. I've tried creating awareness through data how the Summer Flounder stocks is being mismanaged exposing the groups responsible for that mismanagement. Everything, and I mean everything, has been supported by pouring through research reports and stock assessments and building tables for the last five years. We're losing the fishery and access and harvest rights of many fisheries because most in the recreational sector have different agendas and management is ignoring the same data science has worked hard to develop to push their own agendas. I've tried unifying recreational groups through data, knowledge and awareness on this site only to have my work ignored due to politics and personal agendas.

It's just a matter of time before our ideologies clash again so while I appreciate your offer, I'm done here. Please delete my login.

Again thanks for the platform and all the good years, but as with everything in life it's time to move on.

Love your passion and hard work Dakota. Hope that's not considered piling on.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Love your passion and hard work Dakota. Hope that's not considered piling on.

TOO LATE , Tom has decided to pursue his fight on a different platform .
.
While guys agree that fishery management needs to change ,
That degree of change is different in what people are willing to give up .

What I have seen is many chase the apple , only to choose another road when that apple is available .
Losing on both counts .

Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results .

Tom has held stead fast to his beliefs hoping to benefit all with an improved fishery .
Sadly the changes he hopes for would benefit all those fishing for many generations .
.

[dales529]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

TOO LATE , Tom has decided to pursue his fight on a different platform .
.
While guys agree that fishery management needs to change ,
That degree of change is different in what people are willing to give up .

What I have seen is many chase the apple , only to choose another road when that apple is available .
Losing on both counts .

Insanity Is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results .

Tom has held stead fast to his beliefs hoping to benefit all with an improved fishery .
Sadly the changes he hopes for would benefit all those fishing for many generations .
.

Dan
Tom and I are not only fishing partners but have over the years and more importantly have become personal friends. No one "chasing the apple" discounts Tom's efforts I Sincerely hope he changes his mind and posts here and everywhere again. The issue is while we all fight the right fight Gerry extended the olive branch and Tom decided to go another route. Its all fine.
No one at any level that fights for recreational fishing has ever NOT held stead fast in the same beliefs as TOM or others and ALL involved want the benefit of change for many generations. While it hasn't happened yet its still the goal and by no means the definition of insanity although it sometimes feels that way.
There are processes in place like it or not that have to be challenged and fought on a certain level. It just is! RFA / ASA / Gerry and myself are involved within that sector and trust me ALL are trying. The past failures are all only procedure within the government but we are crawling closer. Again it just is.

Any change to fishery management as small as it might seem is a good thing and part of that crawl. Would all like the massive change per Tom' s Documents of course. Can it happen / Sure/ Will it happen I wish I could say yes

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by dales529

Dan
Tom and I are not only fishing partners but have over the years and more importantly have become personal friends. No one "chasing the apple" discounts Tom's efforts I Sincerely hope he changes his mind and posts here and everywhere again. The issue is while we all fight the right fight Gerry extended the olive branch and Tom decided to go another route. Its all fine.
No one at any level that fights for recreational fishing has ever NOT held stead fast in the same beliefs as TOM or others and ALL involved want the benefit of change for many generations. While it hasn't happened yet its still the goal and by no means the definition of insanity although it sometimes feels that way.
There are processes in place like it or not that have to be challenged and fought on a certain level. It just is! RFA / ASA / Gerry and myself are involved within that sector and trust me ALL are trying. The past failures are all only procedure within the government but we are crawling closer. Again it just is.

Any change to fishery management as small as it might seem is a good thing and part of that crawl. Would all like the massive change per Tom' s Documents of course. Can it happen / Sure/ Will it happen I wish I could say yes

I couldn't agree more... This is a marathon and not a sprint and any small victory or change we can make until someone somewhere sees the light is a good thing. Me, I'm all about short term tasks and small achievable goals. Tom, he's all about the bigger picture long term change and goals. That doesn't make him or me wrong, it makes just makes us different.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

I couldn't agree more... This is a marathon and not a sprint and any small victory or change we can make until someone somewhere sees the light is a good thing. Me, I'm all about short term tasks and small achievable goals. Tom, he's all about the bigger picture long term change and goals. That doesn't make him or me wrong, it makes just makes us different.

Gerry respectfully , there hasn’t been ANYTHING Accomplished but smoke and mirrors since the beginning of SSFFF which is over a decade of unaccomplished short term goals .
LOTS of hard work that didn’t truelly get more than a perk by those in charge .

Google the marine summary card from 2007 till 2022 and one look shows all the fisheries we cherish have gone to shit due to mismanagement .

Status quo a few years ago when we should have pushed then for a slot , lost us another 2 fish .
Bogus fish counts took away the additional quota we were supposed to get last year .
.
The reason nothing has changed is our government is doing nothing to protect anything but the jobs of those ruining the fishery .

Until a real lawsuit happens , those people remain in control of a sinking ship .

Just a few more years of unaccomplished short term goals will have us fishing for dogfish .

.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by dales529

Dan
Tom and I are not only fishing partners but have over the years and more importantly have become personal friends. No one "chasing the apple" discounts Tom's efforts I Sincerely hope he changes his mind and posts here and everywhere again. The issue is while we all fight the right fight Gerry extended the olive branch and Tom decided to go another route. Its all fine.
No one at any level that fights for recreational fishing has ever NOT held stead fast in the same beliefs as TOM or others and ALL involved want the benefit of change for many generations. While it hasn't happened yet its still the goal and by no means the definition of insanity although it sometimes feels that way.
There are processes in place like it or not that have to be challenged and fought on a certain level. It just is! RFA / ASA / Gerry and myself are involved within that sector and trust me ALL are trying. The past failures are all only procedure within the government but we are crawling closer. Again it just is.

Any change to fishery management as small as it might seem is a good thing and part of that crawl. Would all like the massive change per Tom' s Documents of course. Can it happen / Sure/ Will it happen I wish I could say yes

Dave the insanity point is all the hard work and effort that the feds ignore .
Everyone (me included ) want to believe sooner or later they have to admit poor management of the resource is their mistake .
It’s never going to happen , as they skew numbers any way thry want to . And ignore anything that proves their numbers wrong .
MRIP is a huge flaw in the process
Mortality’s of 40 percent is bullshit .
Catching tons of fish in the middle of hurricanes is bullshit ..
So instead of just choosing now , why not choose once the other methods are finalized .
Choosing an option now binds us into something that possibly is no better .

Yet then it will be thrown back at us saying WE got to make this choice .
I want to see all the finished options , not just add stock health which is still based on poor Data
.
Common sense is never going to happen at the federal level until they need to prove those numbers in court .

Continuing to fight them the same way that’s failed for over the last 15 years instead of pushing a harder road IMO is insanity .


.


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[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

Dave the insanity point is all the hard work and effort that the feds ignore .
Everyone (me included ) want to believe sooner or later they have to admit poor management of the resource is their mistake .
It’s never going to happen , as they skew numbers any way thry want to . And ignore anything that proves their numbers wrong .
MRIP is a huge flaw in the process
Mortality’s of 40 percent is bullshit .
Catching tons of fish in the middle of hurricanes is bullshit ..
So instead of just choosing now , why not choose once the other methods are finalized .
Choosing an option now binds us into something that possibly is no better .

Yet then it will be thrown back at us saying WE got to make this choice .
I want to see all the finished options , not just add stock health which is still based on poor Data
.
Common sense is never going to happen at the federal level until they need to prove those numbers in court .

Continuing to fight them the same way that’s failed for over the last 15 years instead of pushing a harder road IMO is insanity .


.


.

Hard to argue with what you said Dan... I just don't see a path to haul the feds into their own courts when all these fisheries management issues stand behind "the best available science". It would be expensive and very messy. I could be wrong but I think we might have a better chance improving the science and changing the way they use and interpret it.