Bluefish regs not looking good for next year

Originally Posted by dales529

When policy / process starts creating the "facts" instead of the 'facts" creating policy / process is where I / we have an issue and sadly now that includes the "science" behind it all. Thats your FEDS

Dave couldn't have said it any better or agree more. Here's how the Monitoring Committee works.

Monitoring Committees
Overview
Each of the Council’s fishery management plans (FMPs) has a Monitoring Committee which is responsible for annually reviewing the best available data and recommending commercial and recreational measures designed to assure that the target mortality level for each fishery managed under the FMP is not exceeded. The Council and its Committees consider Monitoring Committee recommendations (along with input from the SSC, advisory panels, and the public) during the annual specification-setting process for each fishery.

AND THE PUBLIC, COULDN'T BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH, HAS TO BE A TYPO.

Ultimate policy decisions are made by the Commission "Board" and Council. Here's the composition of the MC for demersal species:

Summer Flounder, Scup, Black Sea Bass
Kiley Dancy, MAFMC
Julia Beaty, MAFMC
Karson Coutre, MAFMC
Alex Aspinwall, VA Marine Resources Commission
John Carmichael, SAFMC
Peter Clarke, NJ Div of Fish and Wildlife
Steve Doctor, MD DNR
Emily Gilbert, NOAA/NMFS
Dustin Leaning, ASMFC
John Maniscalco, NY DEC, Marine Fisheries
Jason McNamee, RI Div of Fish and Wildlife
Caitlin Starks, ASMFC
Mark Terceiro, NMFS/NEFSC
Sam Truesdell, MA DMF
Greg Wojcik, CT DEP
Rich Wong, DE Div of Fish and Wildlife
T.D. VanMiddlesworth, NC Div Marine Fisheries

This is supposed to be checks and balances when you have a majority of the MC made up of members of MAFMC and ASMFC as well as Dr. Mark Terceira Northeast Science Center's lead scientist responsible for producing a majority of the data being questioned. This is self monitoring as opposed to checks and balances.

How about an independent MC comprised of both Commercial / Recreational / Industry experts (elected officials, not appointed as someone's pawn) who Monitor the science, have the authority to challenge it (accountability) and make recommendation based on data they agree with to the Commission and Council for policy decisions. Objective checks and balances and the Commission / Council / NOAA still have final say but there's a level of objectivity and accountability in the mix which doesn't exist today. The fact it make sense is precisely why it will never be considered because the propaganda machine will lose control and that will never happen with commercial lobbying efforts and political agendas at large.

Taking bets now that next years fluke season will make this years season look stellar with the increase quota commercial operators received this year. The carnage taking place right now off shore if witnessed would bring us to tears.

Everyone is talking on the other thread about why NJ tog fishing is lackluster compared to last year and blaming NY having a season opener six weeks earlier.

Take the same concept, why do you think commercial have six seasonal quotas and the fall / winter months have the highest quotas within those six. Fish are concentrated in the winter and easy targets. In the fall they're once again concentrated in their offshore migration and closer than where they'll ultimately winter further offshore so hit them again only this time during the spawn. Hence highest seasonal quotas in those months. Commercial can and do harvest year round so as fish move inshore in the spring, commercial have the first shot as opposed to recreational. No different than the analogy being made between NY and NJ relative to tog. Commercial has no closed season per se unless seasonal quotas are attained and then they have allowable by catch quotas.

Look at the attached link for NJ Commercial Harvest guidelines issued by NJEPA.

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw//pdf..._quota2019.pdf

In particular, look at the quota for January 6 through February 28 and September 1 through October 31. In total 60% of the annual harvest with 30% during the primary spawn and 30% when the biomass is at its most concentrated levels and most vulnerable to commercial harvest offshore. Imagine the amount of discard thrown back dead on these deep water trips with winter air temperatures. Summer months are light because the fish are spread out, less concentrated and more difficult to catch. November fish are still moving further east so why make more trips in November and December involving greater distances and higher operating costs when you can wait until January and February when the biomass reaches their wintering grounds and commercial operators can absolutely beat them up, keeping the prime market sizes and killing the rest.

This is why the fishery is in a free fall decline without chance of recovery and why yesterdays decision by Commission and Council is so devastating.

Again taking bets as bad as 2019 was for summer flounder, I guarantee 2020 will be worse. And if regulations don't change for 2021, that season will make 2020 look stellar. It has to, there's not one reason why it wouldn't and the stock's reproductive capacity has been so damaged it can't recover on it's own.

Thanks Wilbur Ross, thanks Mike Luisi and Chris Moore, thanks Dr. Mark Terceiro, thanks Adam Nowalsky who is now Chair of the ASMFC Summer Flounder Board and Tom Fote. You're collectively all doing a fantastic job destroying another fishery by adopting status quo measure for 2020 in a fishery that's been declining significantly under your oversight over the last 17-yrs., not only ignoring the data that supports that statement but introducing new data trying to rationalize or conceal the poor decisions made over the past two decades causing that decline. Hope each of you rest comfortably at night realizing you're destroying countless businesses and people's livelihoods with your policy decisions and lack of accountability governing this fishery. 17 year decline, let's keep doing the same thing. Someone needs to help me understand that management philosophy.

[tuna john]

Dakota thanks for all the info and your time invested. I wrote letters sent comments to board as I'm sure others have done. Clearly it falls on deaf ears, is there really anything we can do? If the group above who has some respectable people aren't helping us seems fight is all but lost. I don't condone it but seems just gonna force people to poach and there isn't enough enforcement so chance of getting caught are small, and people aren't going to just stop fishing. Sad sad sad

[pectoralfin]

What is RFA and CCA position on this? They seem to be very quiet about it.

Here's another question I'd love to hear the BS answer for if an AP or MC Advisors or any of our esteemed NJ Representatives on the Commission / Council are looking on. Following excerpt was from Kiley Dancy's presentation:

– 67% of trips and 45% of fish harvested in
2018 were angler-trips landing only 1
summer flounder

If true, how is it that recreational harvest for this year is projected to be ONLY 8% under the RHL (Recreational Harvest Limit)?

The answer I'm sure the Board would give is "Well I would have to attribute that to angler effort per MRIP being three times greater than expected so its offset the reduced harvest of number of fish lander per angler trip".

That's the unsupported BS answers the public gets when questions are asked which challenge fisheries data. Then ask for hire, party boat and tackle shop owners how much their businesses increased this year for summer flounder.

Starting to get the picture?

The above statement says we're essentially at a one possession limit today based on how the governing body has used size minimums to regulate harvest and in the process shifted a substantial portion of the biomass eligible for harvest from recreational to commercial. If the 19" size minimum prevails in 2020, I estimate approximately 37.5 million fish of a harvestable biomass (fish over 14") estimated at maybe 55 million fish to be exclusively available to commercial operators due to differences in size minimums between both groups. That means the recreational community not only gets the short end of the stick with 40% of the ACL (Annual Catch Limit) but in addition we have access to maybe 30% of the harvestable biomass to fill those quotas.

How's that for a fair and equitable allocation of the resource and tell me where the problem is in the fishery.

Two articles in attached links I'd ask everyone to read regarding the North Carolina Commercial Summer Flounder Fishery.

http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/Summer-Flounder

http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/13summerflounderssr11

First article:

The winter trawl fishery is the primary commercial fishery for summer flounder in North Carolina and occurs from winter (December) to early spring (April) making up nearly 99 percent of the total annual landings since 2008.

Take note of the relationship for recreational between landings and releases, spread is insane. Also take notice of the drop off in numbers of juvenile fish since, you guessed it, 2008.

Now read the following excerpt from the second link:

Habits and Habitats – Summer flounder are estuarine dependent members of the left-eyed flounder family that also include southern flounder and Gulf flounder. Summer flounder migrate offshore and south during fall and winter, and inshore and north during early spring and summer. Summer flounder spawn from November through March when water temperatures are between 53 degrees and 67 degrees. Larval summer flounder enter inlets and settle on sandy bottoms in higher– salinity areas of estuaries. After or towards the end of their first year, summer flounder move into ocean waters to spawn and join the coastal migratory groups.

99% of the NC commercial harvest occurs right in the middle of the spawn which is later in southern states than northern due to water temperature differences. Then compare that to the drop off in recruitment statistics.

The same fate lies in store for the concentrated biomass located off our local waters. You couldn't ask for more data to draw that conclusion yet the powers to be continue promoting the harvest of older age classes and offer no protection whatsoever to the spawn or the biomass when it's at it's most concentrated levels in the winter months.

There's been complete incompetency managing this fishery and we're all paying the price. You can't have this degree of decline in the fishery over the period of time discussed and expect the fishery to survive more than another 5 years without an overhaul to the regulations both recreationally (size minimums) and commercial (catch composition, protection of the spawn and protection of the biomass in their offshore wintering locations). If all four don't happen, this fishery is sadly coming to an end and think about the consequences that will have on both the commercial and recreational community.

[dfish28]

So out 50 to 70 miles out going for tuna, where the mass of the sand eels have been chilling, who wasn’t trolling and did not catch a slammer blue??, and where’s the weakfish, ohh same area🤔

[bunker dunker]

some of the weakfish,bluefish and bonito fishing is going on right now.crazy
fishing.

[reason162]

Originally Posted by dales529

No One I know, fishing groups I associate with, fish with as friends or hire to take us fishing doesn't care about sustainable fisheries and conservation. When policy / process starts creating the "facts" instead of the 'facts" creating policy / process is where I / we have an issue and sadly now that includes the "science" behind it all. Thats your FEDS

Sure, we all claim we "care," yet I hardly hear the for-hire industry supporting more stringent regs, no matter the species.
From fluke to stripers to now bluefish, the science is always wrong. The argument always run one way and not the other.

The Overfished assessment came down in Sept, and before year's end we're looking at 3 - 5 limit for 2020. Some
complain that's actually not proactive enough, but compared to the species managed by ASMFC it's lightyears ahead in terms of efficiency.

Oh and no room for BS "conservation equivalency," lb for lb paybacks for 2021. That's how it should be done, and looking at the feds' track record
compared to ASMFC it's hard to argue which approach works for the resource.

[Capt John]

Someone want to answer a question for me.
NOAA is a subdivision of what department? The Department of Commerce? And who's the head of that department?

Originally Posted by Capt John

Someone want to answer a question for me.
NOAA is a subdivision of what department? The Department of Commerce? And who's the head of that department?

Department Of Commerce, Wilbur Ross.