A call "For Help" and "To Help"

[CaptTB]

My response, and let me say up front that this is a HUGE disappointment. NJOA has decided to work without the RFA (who has thousands of recreational members from the state of NJ) at the state level, while continuing to withold its active support of RFA and United Boatmen's efforts.

IF and when NJOA ever actually takes a public stance and course of action on this topic suffice to say United Boatmen will support it iuf it has anything worht supporting to it.

Here is my direct response to "Ant"

Originally Posted by apmaurosr

Similarly, we haven't seen support from United Boatmen on removing commercial gear from the reefs. We don't assume there is lack of support by United Boatment - it might just be that it is not a priority or perhaps it is being approached from a different angle or maybe there's a conflict - we don't assume to know.

Difference is Ant that United Boatmen never held up removing commercial gear as a reason to join or support United Boatmen, as a matter of fact United Boatmen has never commented on the topic and has therefore no connection to it whatsoever.

NJOA however DID use the Sea Bass Closure as a reason to attend the NJOA rally and support NJOA...

Big difference sir, and if you cannot see that then I question your judgement on this and other issues as well.

The NJOA is dedicating its efforts at the state level (Gov., DEP and DFW) and is attempting to leverage any influence from the state back on the federal government for those reefs in federal waters.

Anyway, we at the NJOA wish the RFA, United Boatmen and commercial interests success on raising funds for litigation. Hopefully the length of time ligigation entails can make a diference in the short term, as well as the long term. In the interim, the NJOA will pursue an alternate course of action.

Again, feel free to copy and paste this response to on the other forums where you are asking such questions.

Ant

Thank you for your non-response, response.

It is a shame that NJOA, in my first hand experience attending NJOA sponsored meetings previously, has talked about unity and consensus yet when pressed has chosen to remain silent when asked to unify.

This is the response I expected, it is too bad NJOA has chosen to ignore the fact that groups like UB and RFA have been working locally and at a state level for years before NJOA even existed, while simultaneously working at the federal level, and has chosen to go it alone with an as yet unspecified "different approach".

For those reading, United Boatmen and RFA will continue to work on both the local, state and federal levels, while offering actual public support (and not just well wishes) for any action NJOA and other groups may actively take, if we ever find out what they are.

Working behind the scenes is something that has been done since before the closure even happened, knowing that it was likely to come as many of us did.

Time to work openly and support each other. Too bad NJOA has chosen not to do that.

Capt. Tony Bogan

[CaptTB]

Since apparently Ant will not post this info here but told me I could, here you go.

Originally Posted by apmaurosr

Perhap you should read the answer again CaptTB. The answer is there - it just seems that you are having some difficulty recognizing it.

As for unity, in WWII there were allied forces working toward the same goal but working in different areas to win the war. There was unity in their purpose - but they focused on different areas as a means of accomplishing it.

The NJOA is working on the issue from two areas at the state level. We are guided by the expertise of people with decades of experience in salt water issues, people with past experience with DEP, DFW, etc. We have spoken with legislators and biologists, etc.

Because CaptTB isn't using the approach of the NJOA we aren't saying there isn't "unity." We're glad that the sea bass closure is being approached at both the state and federal levels - not just by means of a lawsuit.

Gladly, my definition of unity and your differs. Yours seems to be we do it the CapTB way or there isn't unity. This definition is too narrow for me.

The NJOA is not on a funding drive to support our efforts - so we are not competing with the funding sources you would use for the lawsuit. People and organizations that want to fund the lawsuit are not using there money for any NJOA purposes.

Please feel free to also copy and paste this response on the other forums where your are posting similar frustration.

There seems to be an effort by some to vilify people/organizations that don't conform with the thinking of others - I think this is what is creating dessension in our ranks - not people who work toward a common goal but do so taking different approaches.

Ant

[CaptTB]

My response:

Originally Posted by apmaurosr

Gladly, my definition of unity and your differs. Yours seems to be we do it the CapTB way or there isn't unity. This definition is too narrow for me.

And, Ant, perhaps you should learn to read and comprehend what others write, since I never even remotely suggested there was any problem with alternative approaches. As a matter of fact, I have repeatedly stated I wish to support all other actions being taken. Something that you, however, have not done.

The NJOA is not on a funding drive to support our efforts - so we are not competing with the funding sources you would use for the lawsuit. People and organizations that want to fund the lawsuit are not using there money for any NJOA purposes.

No, NJOA is simply using issues of which they have little or no involvement in to drum up support for NJOA, while at the same time giving mere lip service, and nothing more, to other actions being taken. NJOA, despite not being involved at in the issue other than "behind the scenes" and "at the local and state level" has continued to ignore requests for support from other groups doing things at the same levels, and at the federal level as well.

Perhaps I should send you a link to a dictionary on-line so you can look up the words support and unity, apparently your definition is different than the rest of planet earth.

There seems to be an effort by some to vilify people/organizations that don't conform with the thinking of others - I think this is what is creating dessension in our ranks - not people who work toward a common goal but do so taking different approaches.

Ant

Actually, there seems to be a lack of concern for the actual issue at hand and the individuals and businesses alike that are affected by it on the part of the NJOA chairman. What there has been, other than his attempts to portray a request, repeated request, for answers and support as an attempt to "vilify" him and the organization he is from, is a disingenuous use of an important topic by NJOA to get attendees at their rally.

This automatically defensive attitude on your part is a bit childish, and this is the second time you have tried to change the subject.

As I said before, apparently you have learned much from dealing with politicians in Trenton, too bad it was how to avoid the topic, speak without saying anything of substance, and portray yourself as the poor persecuted "wounded duck" who others are picking on.

You sir are a non-issue as far as I am concerned.

Hopefully your "education" campaign will work, it is certainly important for people to be educated on the various issues we face. In this particular case, a friendly piece of advice would be to at least mention the word Sea Bass somewhere on the NJOA website. Since your flyer for the ROOR rally mentioned nothing about the issue and none of the subsequent posts you have made even mentioned the topic, perhaps actually discussing it publicly would be a start, but that's just a suggestion.

If you need help in identifying the main points of this issue, for example the fact that it goes far beyond just sea bass, perhaps a quick stop by the RFA or Unitedboatmen website will help, or since you apparently cannot offer any direct public support for those groups' actions and can only wish them luck, perhaps just pointing people to the various websites where those two groups have posted information like njsaltwaterfisherman.com

I also find it interesting that, as before, you simply ignored points in my post and pretended they were never mentioned, but I have come to expect that from you.

Also, You mentioned that you have not seen UB supporting the "commercials off reefs" issue, and compared that to me asking for NJOA support of the actions being taken by RFA and UB on the sea bass issue. Do you even understand the difference? You do realize that UB never used that topic to generate attendence for meeting/rallys nor to get others to support us right? By the way, is NJOA currently accepting donations? Unless you are telling me that NJOA is not currently accepting any sort of funding whatsoever from individuals then you are most certainly on a funding drive, as are all groups who accept donations. Just because you did not specifically ask for money for Sea Bass or any other issue does not change that fact. Difference is, we are asking for YOUR support of an issue that YOU YOURSELF used as a reason to get people to come to an NJOA RALLY. UB has never done any such thing with the reef issue, but nice try to once again deflect the topic away from it's actual purpose.

You made one comment that I found interesting:

While a lawsuit is one approach our approach is from a different direction (I don't think it wise to announce our strategy on an internet forum.)

It reminded me of something I learned as a child about people telling you they have your interests in mind but won't tell you how, why or what they are doing, and the best example of it is found here:
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"

[CaptBob]

There are many good organizations that have dedicated men and women fighting for us and without a doubt each is sincere about their cause.

We have a 2 part problem.

1). The recreational fishery is being attacked on many fronts at one time, everybody has their own "main concern issue", and this causes us to be divided.

2). The many organizations that are fighting for us, fragment what resources we have and at times work against each other.

What is needed is a united front (as the NRA has done with gun rights) to focus our resources and we in our fight would then be stronger, and be a most formatable force to those persons/agencies that are attacking our sport.

While I beong and support the vast majority of organizations that fight for us, the RFA has shown to be the point on many fights. We must throw our full support behind them if we are ever to succeed.