Releasing fish with Baratrauma

[Broad Bill]

I remember a winter party boat cod trip 25 or more years ago. Leif, for those of you on the site for a while, was on board and the first time I'd met him. Great guy. First stop I remember him saying we're way too deep for cod. He was right, no cod but all the 3-4 lb. sea bass you wanted. Problem was, season for sea bass was closed. Drop and reel, as soon as your rig hit the bottom it was double triple header sea bass with almost everyone tossed back belly up.

Captain stayed there for more than an hour so probably 500 or more beautiful sea bass floated back to the gulls. You had three choices, keep them and risk being fined back at the dock, toss them overboard for the gulls or stop fishing. I chose to stop fishing as not one cod, the target species, was caught and I couldn't continue killing absolutely beautiful sea bass. A complete waste. No venting equipment on board and certainly not the devices Dan posted. In the absence of a mandate, a sensible mandate in this case, people won't buy a $25 venting tool to protect fisheries because they're lazy or not informed. There should absolutely be a requirement on party and charter boats who do this for a living. But as always, this is someone else's problem, not theirs.

Gerry, I fail to understand the logic in your comment. I understand and agree no one likes mandates but when those mandates help preserve stocks what you're saying is you'd rather risk anglers killing hundreds of fish out of season or below the size limit as opposed to making a one time purchase for a $25 venting tool on a trip you'll spend $300 dollars alone for in gas to get to the grounds. Those same people will be the first to complain when possession limits are reduced and seasons closed. If you're political views are against regulatory mandates, don't target the species.

[bulletbob]

Maybe someone can answer a question for me on this topic.. I too have seen way too many dying fish float away, feebly trying to right themselves after being cranked up from deep water.. Any device that cuts this down a lot is worthwhile.. However, I don't see this problem near as much in freshwater .. We catch lake trout while jigging as deep as 200 FOW, and the fish always swim back strong.. I have even caught perch and sunfish at 85 FOW in summer and they swam back strong... Hadn't really thought about why that may be, but this thread got me thinking about it... Even at 75 feet I have seen a lot of salt water fish go belly up on the surface unable to swim back down, but never saw it as yet in a fresh water fish caught from deep water.. Anyone know?... bob

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Maybe someone can answer a question for me on this topic.. I too have seen way too many dying fish float away, feebly trying to right themselves after being cranked up from deep water.. Any device that cuts this down a lot is worthwhile.. However, I don't see this problem near as much in freshwater .. We catch lake trout while jigging as deep as 200 FOW, and the fish always swim back strong.. I have even caught perch and sunfish at 85 FOW in summer and they swam back strong... Hadn't really thought about why that may be, but this thread got me thinking about it... Even at 75 feet I have seen a lot of salt water fish go belly up on the surface unable to swim back down, but never saw it as yet in a fresh water fish caught from deep water.. Anyone know?... bob

FROM GOOGLE


Freshwater fish can experience barotrauma, especially when rapidly brought up from deep depths, but some species are less susceptible due to a physiological adaptation called a pneumatic duct which allows them to release gas from their swim bladder, effectively "burping" to adjust to pressure changes; fish lacking this duct are more prone to barotrauma when brought to the surface quickly.
Key points about freshwater fish and barotrauma:
Swim bladder function:
The swim bladder, a gas-filled organ that helps fish maintain buoyancy, is key to understanding barotrauma.
Physostomous vs. Physoclistous fish:
Fish with a pneumatic duct connecting their swim bladder to their digestive tract (physostomous) can release gas more easily and are less likely to experience barotrauma compared to fish without this duct (physoclistous).
Examples:
Fish less likely to experience barotrauma:
Trout, salmon, and pike have a pneumatic duct and can adjust their swim bladder pressure readily.
Fish more likely to experience barotrauma:
Walleye, perch, and bass lack the pneumatic duct and are more susceptible to barotrauma when brought up from deep water

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Maybe someone can answer a question for me on this topic.. I too have seen way too many dying fish float away, feebly trying to right themselves after being cranked up from deep water.. Any device that cuts this down a lot is worthwhile.. However, I don't see this problem near as much in freshwater .. We catch lake trout while jigging as deep as 200 FOW, and the fish always swim back strong.. I have even caught perch and sunfish at 85 FOW in summer and they swam back strong... Hadn't really thought about why that may be, but this thread got me thinking about it... Even at 75 feet I have seen a lot of salt water fish go belly up on the surface unable to swim back down, but never saw it as yet in a fresh water fish caught from deep water.. Anyone know?... bob

Freshwater fish generally don't get the bends because they don't breathe compressed air like humans do when diving, meaning they don't absorb large amounts of nitrogen into their bodies at depth, which is the primary cause of decompression sickness ("the bends") when surfacing rapidly; whereas some deep-sea saltwater fish can experience issues with their swim bladders due to pressure changes, which can be similar to the bends but arises from a different mechanism related to gas volume regulation within their bodies.

Or what Dan just posted.

[dales529]

IMHO I think any device like Dan posted that can save fish should be implemented. Why NOT? Inconvenience is not an excuse.

Having said that and when you fish with quality Captains I have found out that not all "floaters" die especially seabass. After a great stop with shorts and keepers slowed Capt spun the boat and we all including the crew tapped the bloated floaters on the head quickly / sharply with Rod tips and soft end of the gaff and I was amazed at the amount that revived and swam back quickly to the bottom (or somewhere) but they all were lively!

This was not one trip but many. Also what worked was throwing the bloated shorts back fast head down. Granted more in 65 to 120 ft depths vs offshore but the "floaters" don't all die even offshore and I believe the boats left care.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

I remember a winter party boat cod trip 20 or more years ago. Leif, for those of you on the site for a while, was on board and the first time I'd met him. Great guy. First stop I remember him saying we're way too deep for cod. He was right, no cod but all the 3-4 lb. sea bass you wanted. Drop and reel, as soon as your rig hit the bottom it was double triple header sea bass with almost everyone tossed back belly up.

Captain stayed there for more than an hour so probably 500 or more beautiful sea bass floated back to the gulls. You had three choices, keep them and risk being fined back at the dock, toss them overboard for the gulls or stop fishing. I chose to stop fishing as not one cod, the target species, was caught and I couldn't continue killing absolutely beautiful sea bass. A complete waste. No venting equipment on board and certainly not the devices Dan posted. In the absence of a mandate, a sensible mandate in this case, people won't buy a $25 venting tool to protect fisheries because they're lazy or not informed. They should absolutely be a requirement on party and charter boats who do this for a living. But as always, this is someone else's problem, not theirs.

Gerry, I fail to understand the logic in your comment. I understand and agree no one likes mandates but when those mandates help preserve stocks what you're saying is you'd rather risk anglers killing hundreds of fish out of season or below the size limit as opposed to making a one time purchase for a $25 venting tool on a trip you'll spend $300 dollars alone for in gas to get to the grounds. Those same people will be the first to complain when possession limits are reduced and seasons closed. If you're political views are against regulatory mandates, don't target the species.

A lot of questions to be answered which might make me think otherwise because often times the devil is in the details and what seems to be logical in theory is not in practice.

- Who is responsible for purchasing the device...The boat owner, private or for hire or the individual angler or does there just have to be one on the boat?

- Same question above except for who's responsible for making sure the device is used and is it mandatory to use on every fish and any species that's released or only the ones showing signs of decompression?

- Who makes the final decision to implement this? Some committee in the sky who can make a unilateral decision or will this be discussed and decided by the public in a state or region.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

A lot of questions to be answered which might make me think otherwise because often times the devil is in the details and what seems to be logical in theory is not in practice.

- Who is responsible for purchasing the device...The boat owner, private or for hire or the individual angler or does there just have to be one on the boat?

- Same question above except for who's responsible for making sure the device is used and is it mandatory to use on every fish and any species that's released or only the ones showing signs of decompression?

- Who makes the final decision to implement this? Some committee in the sky who can make a unilateral decision or will this be discussed and decided by the public in a state or region.

It’s already written into law in other states .
Every boat is required to have and use it to release every fish not kept caught from waters deep enough for compression .

Marine fisheries should be mandating their use to protect the fisheries .

A venting tool is 10-25 bucks
The investment isn’t in the tool , it’s in actually using it

..

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

A lot of questions to be answered which might make me think otherwise because often times the devil is in the details and what seems to be logical in theory is not in practice.

- Who is responsible for purchasing the device...The boat owner, private or for hire or the individual angler or does there just have to be one on the boat?

- Same question above except for who's responsible for making sure the device is used and is it mandatory to use on every fish and any species that's released or only the ones showing signs of decompression?

- Who makes the final decision to implement this? Some committee in the sky who can make a unilateral decision or will this be discussed and decided by the public in a state or region.

Spoken like a bureaucrat. Don't over complicate it. Start somewhere and make changes when needed. As Dan mentioned, there's states that already have this in place so use best practices and follow their lead. Or we can do what ASMFC, MAFMC and NMFS do which is overthink and overcomplicate matters, what if it to death and simply kick the can down the road to the point where nothing is done.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Tom - If your "spoken like a bureaucrat" remark was directed at me, I take offense to that and you might want to retract your statement since I feel it's a personal attack on my character...

Opinions are always welcome here but personal character attacks are not

[Broad Bill]

Gerry my post was a general comment, not directed at you personally so nothing to retract. Note your name or "you" isn't written anywhere in my reply.

If you want to discuss personal character attacks, we can certainly go down that road as you've more than once come at me for benign posts I've made and statements of opinion. Icing chub mackerel, mind my own business and it's none of your business. Your comment on yesterday's blackfish thread, the same. None of my business posting a personal opinion. I remember your edict to stay off your threads, didn't realize there was a rule where members couldn't comment on your threads. And let's no forget damn yankee's pm with his sexual innuendos repulsively directed at me that you found acceptable behavior.

I've always posted professionally and respectfully on this site to share information and educate members about what's happening in fisheries management. If that's against protocol or off limits, just let me know.