Bluefish regs not looking good for next year

Originally Posted by Detour66

1980!

Close Detour. 1989 to 2003 before recreational size limits sky rocketed and commercial operators were cunningly given a substantially larger percentage of the biomass for their own harvest when recreational size minimums exceeded their 14" minimum. Funny how in 1997 the legislation increasing the commercial size limit to 14" and the mandate to increase mesh sizes by 1/2" was sold as a conservation effort.

In reality, the real reason which you can see in the data is increasing mesh sizes accommodated the harvest of larger size fish with higher catch values. Had nothing to do with conservation. While I agree some smaller fish will get through larger mesh sizes, when the cod end of nets get plugged up, mesh sizes don't matter one bit and everything trapped in the nets is coming on board. Commercial operators retrieve the nets, unload the entire catch on board, reset their nets first, start the sorting process of fish they're retaining and then toss back by-catch or fish not meeting size minimums or fish with lower market values. So figure an hour to hour and a half per tow, nets coming up primarily during fall and winter months from deeper depths, cold air temperatures, fish lying on decks while nets are re-set and continuing to sit on deck while the desirable catch is stowed away which will take another hour. Any summer flounder or by-catch caught in a net and not retained goes back dead, think about the waste involved in the process and vessel trip reports report on average about 15% discard rates which fisheries management assigns an 80% mortality factor to. Discard rates are most likely well over 100% in the commercial fishery and discard mortality is likely 100%.

Now factor in the lost egg production of the fish being harvested which is in the TENS OF TRILLIONS and that's why the fishery is in a 17-yr decline. Yet the Monitoring Committee fails to acknowledge a relationship between the severe declines in recruitment and the increased harvest of older age classes being mostly females so they change their position that most fish under 24" are 50/50 males:females and a large percentage of today's catch are males. Total BS. This is now in their own words a 10-15 year trend within the fishery which contradicts every aspect of the data included in the 66th Stock Assessment published 8 months ago in April of this year! THE ENTIRE GENDER COMPOSITION OF CATCH AND THE BIOMASS HAS CHANGED IN 8 MONTHS CONTRADICTING EVERY OTHER STUDY REGARDING SEX, LENGTH AND AGE COMPOSITION CONDUCTED AND NOW MALES AND FEMALES WHILE SMALLER ARE LIVING LONGER AS WELL. GUESS THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE RELENTLESSLY BEING POUNDED YEAR ROUND OR BECAUSE THERE WERE TWO MALES SLIGHTLY OVER 20" HARVESTED IN A RECENT TRAWL COMMENTED ON IN THE OCTOBER MEETING WERE 20-YR. OLD FISH EXTRAPOLATES OUT TO A DEFINITIVE STATEMENT THAT MALES AND FEMALES ARE ATTAINING LARGER SIZES AND LIVING LONGER. TWO FISH IN A BIOMASS OF 122 MILLION AND THAT CONSTITUTES A DEFINITIVE TREND! This is the BS being fed the general public by the Advisory Panel, Monitoring Committee and being used to set policy decisions by the Commission and Council.

Reality is they're lying to the public, changing models and data to support the results lobbyist funds are paying for. Truth is I could have walked into the meeting yesterday insisting it was Tuesday and they would have taken the position that recent trends suggest it's actually Wednesday or Thursday so sit down, stop asking questions, check your brain at the door or you'll be asked to leave.

[AndyS]

Bottom line.

[Detour66]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Close Detour. 1989 to 2003 before recreational size limits sky rocketed and commercial operators were cunningly given a substantially larger percentage of the biomass for their own harvest.
Reality is they're lying to the public, changing models and data to support the results lobbyist funds are paying for. Truth is I could have walked into the meeting yesterday insisting it was Tuesday and they would have taken the position that recent trends suggest it's actually Wednesday so please sit down, stop asking questions and check your brain at the door.

It clearly appears to me that they are trying to put an end to salt water recreational fishing all together while commercial fishing will go on unchanged or even increased. Something radical has to be done soon or it will be all but over!

Originally Posted by Detour66

It clearly appears to me that they are trying to put an end to salt water recreational fishing all together while commercial fishing will go on unchanged or even increased. Something radical has to be done soon or it will be all but over!

Detour I couldn't agree more and I'll leave it at that. I'm not one to break the law and not abide by the regulations but when it's this obvious what's happening I'm also not one to be taken advantage of and have a resource I've enjoyed my entire life be taken away by politicians and given to the commercial industry. 17 yr decline and commercial operators get a 50% increase in quota last year while recreational get shit on because of unproven MRIP data which changed past recreational catch estimates between 200% and 300% and we're penalized. 200% to 300%, what does that say about the data decisions are being based on. If new MRIP is correct, old MRIP was completely wrong. 200% to 300% percent fluctuations in data collection says one thing, the methods being used are out of control. New MRIP could be equally as unrepresentative as old MRIP statistics but fishery management uses them to reduce catch for the recreational sector while observed discard rates on commercial trips are off the charts and ignored in arriving at their catch quotas.

This process has been rigged to destroy the fishing rights of recreational fisherman while politicians and Committee / Council Members get fat and happy horse trading our resource for their own benefits.

[bulletbob]

Is it just coincidence that for the past several years I have been seeing a LOT more pan size Blues , about 12-15 inches on ice in large grocery store fresh fish departments??. Thats up state NY btw, far from the ocean. I see a LOT of them on ice up here these days. I often see them in 2 packs, fish of maybe a pound each, gutted, heads on fins clipped,, "Dressed" I think is the retail term.
In white styro trays, wrapped by machine in plastic, and actually looking quite fresh with bright eyes, gills, and good body color.. they are NOT that cheap, maybe $11-12 for 2 12 inch blues...

I could be wrong, but the mania these days for salt water fish has increased the market for fish such as Bluefish that in the past no one would buy at a fish market.. At least not most people..
So if there is an increase in demand for Blues, there will certainly be no shortage of netters all too happy to keep the newfound market demand satisfied.. until they are gone, or close to it,,,,, same as it ever was. bob

[chrislars]

You mean the non-existent inshore bluefish of the last 3 years? The usual party boats didn't even target them the past 2 summers because there weren't any within 30 miles like they were so many summers before! Even the exploratory trips to the reefs didn't find any to make it worthwhile to go the next day. Sounds like the big blues are staying farther off shore, but I was surprised to not see them mixed in with the big stripers this fall since it was a normal run of large fish. Night blues might be done! Didn't look like any epic trips that we even had as recently as 5 years ago. So, the day boats had to target sea bass and fluke all summer where they normally go for blues. I'm sure that didn't help any data...

[Merle31483]

Bluefish are a gross fish to eat most of them yellow eyed demons go to waste anyway cause they taste like shit the thing they should do away with the the damn bonus tags for stripers. We preach conservation but yet we kill a "slot fish " at 24 " come on people if we use these tags on these small fish how in the hell are they gonna mature to breeding size? For party boats to get 150 tags a season it's not limited to 1 person that same person can come back tomorrow and get another tag WAKE UP do the right thing and release the so called slot bass and screw the tags makes me sick

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Merle31483

Bluefish are a gross fish to eat most of them yellow eyed demons go to waste anyway cause they taste like shit the thing they should do away with the the damn bonus tags for stripers. We preach conservation but yet we kill a "slot fish " at 24 " come on people if we use these tags on these small fish how in the hell are they gonna mature to breeding size? For party boats to get 150 tags a season it's not limited to 1 person that same person can come back tomorrow and get another tag WAKE UP do the right thing and release the so called slot bass and screw the tags makes me sick

You might not like them, but a lot of people do, especially the small ones.. Enough people buy them these days that the commercial fishery for them has expanded and we are seeing the results in fewer Blues out there to fish for... bob

Originally Posted by bulletbob

You might not like them, but a lot of people do, especially the small ones.. Enough people buy them these days that the commercial fishery for them has expanded and we are seeing the results in fewer Blues out there to fish for... bob

Bob I totally agree. If there's a market foreign or domestic every fishery will be exploited to extinction. I've prepared smaller size bluefish up to maybe 5 lbs that were gutted, iced and not left on the deck to fry which were very good table fare. I have a friend who makes a bluefish pate, if you ever tasted it you'd never know you were eating bluefish. It's off the charts phenomenal and unfortunately a well guarded recipe otherwise I'd share it with the board.

Either way, the issue I have with marine fisheries among many is if regulations were working, there would never be a need to adopt such radical measures we're seeing more and more in today's fisheries management. They've been managing these stocks for years and the recent changes with porgies, bluefish and there position with summer flounder are just another example of how out of control they are. The fact the Monitoring Committee was considering a 3 fish bag limit and changed to status quo should make everyone pause and think about the lack of thought process involved with these Committees.

Monitoring Committee "Scup possession limit of 50 is too onerous so lets have a 55% percent decrease in harvest on a healthy fishery and make the possession limit 3 so we can put everyone out of business. A few weeks later, on second thought the fishery is healthy so let's maintain status quo."
If anyone isn't concerned about that range of thought process and what almost transpired in a healthy fishery, you should be.

As I said they are absolutely out of control meaning the MC, AP, Council and Commission and the public and fisheries are paying the consequences.

[dales529]

Originally Posted by reason162

If only the feds can take over striper management they might stand a chance of surviving.

No One I know, fishing groups I associate with, fish with as friends or hire to take us fishing doesn't care about sustainable fisheries and conservation. When policy / process starts creating the "facts" instead of the 'facts" creating policy / process is where I / we have an issue and sadly now that includes the "science" behind it all. Thats your FEDS