So where are the big blackfish

[hammer4reel]

NY boats caught them here for 6 weeks before we were allowed to in our own waters.
Bite in October was unreal and they cashed in on it.

our season should have the same start date .

Originally Posted by reason162

That is a surprising development in the discourse re fluke, will wait for your post after the next meeting.

It's not a surprising development at all the more you learn about the inter-workings of fisheries management. Tremendous amount of strife and conflict among the committees and agencies themselves. No one wants to have the finger pointed at them or become the smoking gun of how a fishery that flourished for 15 years with record growth changed in one year and has since been in a free fall decline over the last 16 years. They control the data, they control the entire process. No one from the outside is let in. If the data doesn't support the desired outcome, change the data or ask a different question. Definition of politics, not the definition of fisheries management. Accountability is lacking up and down the line because it's been set up that way with two three letter acronyms. "BAS" Best available science and "MSA" Magnuson Stevens Act". If they can't answer a question or the data doesn't support their position, one of the two excuses are used or the data is changed. IT ALL HAS TO CHANGE.

Public is not educated to the politics and protectionist BS taking place so I'll give you one clear example.

The survival of summer flounder recruits, expressed as the R/SSB ratio, was higher in the 1980's and early 1990's than in the years since 1996. That's a direct quote from the most recent stock assessment report published earlier this year. Number of recruits (new fish added to the population) absolutely tanked from the 80's and mid 90's to today. 80% DECREASE!

Followed by this comment from the lead scientist responsible for the summer flounder fishery.

The assessment shows that current mortality from all sources is greater than RECENT recruitment inputs to the stock. ALTHOUGH RECRUITMENT INDICES HAVE BEEN BELOW AVERAGE IN THE MOST RECENT YEARS,
the driver of this pattern has not been identified nor is it clear if the pattern will continue in the future. If recruitment improves, current catches may allow the stock to increase, but if recruitment remains low or further decreases, FURTHER REDUCTIONS IN CATCH WILL BE NECESSARY.

All comments are from the 66th Stock Assessment published earlier this year and couldn't be more contradictory. Recruitment dynamics drastically changed in 1997, 22-years ago, at precisely the same time older age classes started being harvested. OLDER SEXUALLY MATURE FISH WITH A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER PROPORTION OF FEMALES HAVING THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF EGG CAPACITY. And fishery management refers to this as a recent unexplained anomaly!

Recreational discard rates are definitely contributing to the problem but it's the result of policy decisions with increased size minimums. We have no choice.
Commercial harvest is targeting older age classes selectively since 1997 because landings decreased in 1996 and with 75% of their catch coming during the fall / winter months, it means the majority of the harvest coincides with the spawn and off-shore summer flounder staging areas during the winter months. In 2018, 46% of the commercial harvest occurred between January through March and 64% of the overall harvest came from three areas, 613, 616 and 537, right in our local waters. Areas where the biomass is highly concentrated and must vulnerable. Won't be long before that biomass is destroyed just as the southern stock already has. Precisely why the southern states fleet are up here harvesting their quotas. Someone honestly tell me reproduction isn't being adversely impacted by harvesting almost exclusively females and pounding this stock during their spawning season yet the governing body allows it to happen. When younger age classes were being harvested, recruitment levels were healthy and discard rates paled in comparison to what they are today. Keep in mind, commercial dead discard rates have an 80% mortality factor assigned which truthfully is probably 100% considering the depths these fish are being hauled from and the time of year.

Gender composition of the the spawning stock has been devastated in every age class that matters so now to Dave's point, they change the data to suggest that fish below 24" are 50 / 50 males / females and there's not a gender imbalance caused by past and current regulations they recommended to the Commission and Council. That contradicts Rutgers Length and Sex study and every other research paper I've read regarding length and sex composition of the stock including NOAA and NMFS papers themselves. But to think they'll willingly publish information which will indite past decisions or their credibility, not going to happen. BS has to change.

And in the same correspondence, when you relate the fact 92 fish we're harvested on seven personal trips this year (two including party boats) with all but three of the 92 being females and when an AP Advisor on the Council himself relates in 2017 he personally witnessed 187 summer flounder filleted throughout the season in South Jersey with only 1 being a male, their reply is they've noticed a recent trend that males are staying further offshore. Again, don't like the question asked or the answer doesn't support their desired result, manipulate the data. This after years of being told smaller fish, more males than females, have a propensity of inhabiting shallower waters.

Until ASMFC and MAFMC acknowledge the inconsistencies and contradictions in their own data, decisions are being based on bogus data and regulations will cause further declines in this fishery.

Has to change not just for Summer Flounder, the entire process needs to transition from personal and political agendas and protectionist behavior to fisheries management. A vital fishery which has declined in every key aspect (biomass, SSB, catch levels, gender composition, recruitment, elevated discard rates, shortened seasons) since 2003 and we're looking at status quo measures for 2020. 17 years of failure and the management body is seriously considering status quo. Not measures which will address the causes of the decline, just more of the same regulations which will perpetuate and more likely than not accelerate those declines! Absolutely incomprehensible!

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

NY boats caught them here for 6 weeks before we were allowed to in our own waters.
Bite in October was unreal and they cashed in on it.

our season should have the same start date .

I agree.. For whatever reason, NJ Tog fishermen have been talking glowingly about "Blackfish weather" for years.. never made sense to me.. the fish start shutting down fairly soon after the season starts in NJ.. Yes they still eat, and can be caught but it is SO much more "picky".
To me blackfish weather always meant a nice sunny october day around 65 degrees with about a 60 degree water temp.. NOT 25 degrees, high winds, heavy seas spitting snow in mid to late December, and a 40 degree water temp..

too many days when they are just not that active this time of year..

Tog are much more active in 60-65 degree water than they are in 45 degree or below water.

This all started when the winter party boat fisheries collapsed.
Most boats did not fish for tog in winter to any extent.
Nowadays, they are all thats left pretty much as far as inshore fishing, so we have "blackfish weather".. Winter conditions, and scratchy bites from tentative fish on a lot of days. bob

[Togfather2530]

I think next year I’ll start targeting them earlier Bob.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

I think next year I’ll start targeting them earlier Bob.

NY regs is the way to go, but NJ won't buy it.. they don't want us fishing when the fish are most active...

years ago I noticed a general pattern with blackfish,, they seemed to bite best when the fluke are moving in strongly in spring, and then when fluke are moving out strongly in fall.. I think the best time is when the water temp is between the low 50's to low 60's... bob

[Fisherman120]

3 trips so far caught 3 keepers, 6 and then 5 to 8.5 lbs. I haven't found the bite to be great nor bad. Anybody who fished 2017s fall/winter knows this year is stellar in comparison.

[Chrisper4694]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

ny boats caught them here for 6 weeks before we were allowed to in our own waters.
Bite in october was unreal and they cashed in on it.

Our season should have the same start date .

^^ this ^^

[Reelron]

I don't know? A "simple" question is asked and the answers go off into a long discourse on all fish stocks?

I have a page on facebook called Togaholics. Every day Captains and individuals post fishing reports and photos of Double Digit fish that have been caught, so I see many DD Tog being caught. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places?

[Togfather2530]

Originally Posted by Reelron

I don't know? A "simple" question is asked and the answers go off into a long discourse on all fish stocks?

I have a page on facebook called Togaholics. Every day Captains and individuals post fishing reports and photos of Double Digit fish that have been caught, so I see many DD Tog being caught. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places?

Ok. Glad to hear u r hearing them being caught. I have been catching. Nothing much over 17”. Most are shorter fish. I would be glad to take u fishing for free anytime u want if u want to put me on the big ones

[kurtisb]

I caught a 13# on 12/4 near Elberon. That may be the earliest time of year that I've caught a DD.