FISHERMEN/Not going to believe this one!!!

[Detour66]

What happened to the "Modern Fishing Act" ??? I was under the impression that this was going to help us?

Originally Posted by 1captainron

Black Sea Bass

The 2019 black sea bass operational stock assessment concluded the stock was not overfished and overfishing was not occurring in 2018. Spawning stock biomass was estimated to be about 2.4 times the biomass target in 2018. Recruitment was above average in 2015 and below-average during 2016-2018. The Board and Council adopted an ABC of 15.07 million pounds for 2020 and 2021, which results in a commercial quota of 5.58 million pounds and an RHL of 5.81 million pounds for both years after accounting for expected discards. This represents a 59% increase for both the commercial quota and the RHL compared to the 2019 measures. This could allow for a notable increase in commercial landings. However, because the recently revised recreational harvest estimates are higher than the 2020 and 2021 RHLs, managers will not be able to liberalize recreational measures in 2020, despite the increase in the RHL. Changes to recreational measures (bag, size, and season limits) to constrain harvest to the RHL will be considered at the Council and Board’s December 2019 joint meeting.

Another Crock of Shit!!!! Bend over boys & Girls once again.

Sounds like the exact same scenario replayed from the summer flounder 2019 debacle. Commercial and recreational each receive a 40% increase in quota but recreational gets penalized for inflated RHL estimates coming from MRIP, a process which science itself describes as having a high degree of uncertainty. So commercial ends up receiving an increase more in the neighborhood of 50% and recreational gets status quo. In the case of summer flounder, observed commercial discard rates which are off the charts are ignored in scientific models and the significantly lower discard rates from honor system vessel trip reports "VTR's" are used. Recreational harvest to the contrary is based on highly questionable phantom numbers, commercial discards which could be as high as 100% are based on numbers commercial operators provide as opposed to empirical data from observed trawls.

I'm sure what's happening with BSB is the same. Landings are reported on VTR's but discard percentages on those reports are the honor system while recreational catch in total and discard percentages are based on MRIP which has zero degree of credibility.

In the case of summer flounder, with the size differential of 14" for commercial and 18" for NJ and 19" for NY, Ct. and RI recreational, there's an estimated 35 million more fish in the biomass commercial netters can harvest which are mandatory discards for the recreational community. 35 MILLION! With those kind of numbers and a 33% discard mortality factor assigned to recreational anglers in arriving at catch quotas, we'll never receive another increase in quota unless the regulations are completely revamped and size limits aligned again between recreational and commercial.

The Commission and Council intentionally or unintentionally have moved a majority of this fishery over to commercials interests at the expense of the recreational community. Look at the attached chart from the MAFMC Summer Flounder Fishery Information Document. Commercial ex-vessel values from 1994 to 2018 have more the tripled based on associated landings lower by almost 50%. Why, because they're catching larger fish with higher market prices. Larger fish which are older age meaning a higher percentage consisting of female breeders and all sexually mature. Age classes 3 through 6. Precisely the reason recruitment levels are down and WILL NOT rebound without fundamental management change of this fishery. Where are all those fish coming from since commercial harvest in the 80's and 90's consisted almost entirely of age class years 1 - 2, recreational discards. The recreational community is subsidizing a 200% increase in ex vessel values and the fishery since 2004 has been declining led by recruitment statistics which have plummeted. And NJ and NY in that same time frame have gone from 8 fish at 16.5" and 7 fish at 17" to 3 fish at 18" and 4 fish at 19" respectively with shortened seasons.

So while commercial concerns have taken in more money in spite of catch quotas being cut, those gains have come at the exclusive sacrifices of the recreational community and the businesses dependent on it in the form of increased size limits, lower possession limits, shortened seasons, reduced quotas, materially lower harvest rights to a substantial percentage of the biomass and significantly higher assigned discard mortality rates based on a highly questionable process.

A public resource has being taken away from past generations who enjoyed and protected it for the almighty dollar. Someone needs to show me where MSA, subsequent re-authorizations or the Modern Fishing Act allows that. I always thought it was about protecting the resource itself, first and foremost, and then making sure the economics for both the commercial and recreational interests were safe-guarded on a equitable and reasonable basis. What's happening to both summer flounder and now BSB is against everything MSA was enacted to protect.

As I've stated several times, I'm not against commercial fisheries. I wish their ex-vessel values were $50 million. BUT their share of this resource can't be at the expense of recreational rights to the same resource any more than recreational rights should be at the expense of commercial rights to make a living harvesting that resource. The scales of access rights and the balance in the fishery have been so damaged changes need to occur. Going into '20 / '21 with the same regulations in place will be a tragedy to this fishery and it's constituents. Businesses will continue failing and people's lives and livelihoods will be ruined until the fishery is ultimately destroyed.

[Togfather2530]

First let me say I think these regs are all bs. I also agree that once you give them up you won’t get them back. But I do have another viewpoint which I have adopted at least for the sake of not getting pissed off. First let me say I have a boat in the water slipped all year. That being said I only get down fishing once every other week on average. Let me tell you I have more fish in my freezer than I can possibly eat. I will say I don’t have a big family but half of these kids don’t eat fish today anyway. Other years that I didn’t do well or get the time to fish I would just keep a few shorts lol. It’s all bs. I don’t know what you guys could possibly do with all the fish if you were allowed to keep 25 Seabass again. Who needs that many? Same with the Porgys. I take guys out and let them keep them that don’t get to go much. I could get a years supply in one trip. Are you guys lacking fish, that’s my question? My point is if you are a recreational fisherman and you like to fish as a hobby I think you would go once every other week and have plenty of fish like I do. Just another insight. Like I said I don’t disagree with anyone here that it’s BS.

[Togfather2530]

Another view of mine is that the flounder fishing sucked in the New York bight this year

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

First let me say I think these regs are all bs. I also agree that once you give them up you won’t get them back. But I do have another viewpoint which I have adopted at least for the sake of not getting pissed off. First let me say I have a boat in the water slipped all year. That being said I only get down fishing once every other week on average. Let me tell you I have more fish in my freezer than I can possibly eat. I will say I don’t have a big family but half of these kids don’t eat fish today anyway. Other years that I didn’t do well or get the time to fish I would just keep a few shorts lol. It’s all bs. I don’t know what you guys could possibly do with all the fish if you were allowed to keep 25 Seabass again. Who needs that many? Same with the Porgys. I take guys out and let them keep them that don’t get to go much. I could get a years supply in one trip. Are you guys lacking fish, that’s my question? My point is if you are a recreational fisherman and you like to fish as a hobby I think you would go once every other week and have plenty of fish like I do. Just another insight. Like I said I don’t disagree with anyone here that it’s BS.

I don't think anyone "needs" 25 sea bass.. I think most guys would be fine with a longer season, and a season where you are allowed to take more than 2 fish.. Do you realize that during the 52 week year your are allowed a total of 12 weeks of 10 fish and 4 weeks of 15 fish?... thats a total of 16 weeks out of 52 with a realistic bag limit.

Also, 8 of those weeks its impossible to catch many sea bass inshore, and boats have to run 3 hours offshore to get on them, and anglers pay BIG bucks to get that ""generous"" 15 fish limit in November and December.. They ""allow"" 2 damn fish a day at the time of year when small boaters have a decent shot at them.. Sooo sporting of them- right?.. bob

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

First let me say I think these regs are all bs. I also agree that once you give them up you won’t get them back. But I do have another viewpoint which I have adopted at least for the sake of not getting pissed off. First let me say I have a boat in the water slipped all year. That being said I only get down fishing once every other week on average. Let me tell you I have more fish in my freezer than I can possibly eat. I will say I don’t have a big family but half of these kids don’t eat fish today anyway. Other years that I didn’t do well or get the time to fish I would just keep a few shorts lol. It’s all bs. I don’t know what you guys could possibly do with all the fish if you were allowed to keep 25 Seabass again. Who needs that many? Same with the Porgys. I take guys out and let them keep them that don’t get to go much. I could get a years supply in one trip. Are you guys lacking fish, that’s my question? My point is if you are a recreational fisherman and you like to fish as a hobby I think you would go once every other week and have plenty of fish like I do. Just another insight. Like I said I don’t disagree with anyone here that it’s BS.

Really??It ain't about filling the freezer.

[nanseaj]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

First let me say I think these regs are all bs. I also agree that once you give them up you won’t get them back. But I do have another viewpoint which I have adopted at least for the sake of not getting pissed off. First let me say I have a boat in the water slipped all year. That being said I only get down fishing once every other week on average. Let me tell you I have more fish in my freezer than I can possibly eat. I will say I don’t have a big family but half of these kids don’t eat fish today anyway. Other years that I didn’t do well or get the time to fish I would just keep a few shorts lol. It’s all bs. I don’t know what you guys could possibly do with all the fish if you were allowed to keep 25 Seabass again. Who needs that many? Same with the Porgys. I take guys out and let them keep them that don’t get to go much. I could get a years supply in one trip. Are you guys lacking fish, that’s my question? My point is if you are a recreational fisherman and you like to fish as a hobby I think you would go once every other week and have plenty of fish like I do. Just another insight. Like I said I don’t disagree with anyone here that it’s BS.

It's more about opportunity than bag limits. Longer seasons are needed to keep the party and charter boats in business. I can buy sea bass year round at any seafood store. The recreational fishery should also be open year round

Originally Posted by nanseaj

It's more about opportunity than bag limits. Longer seasons are needed to keep the party and charter boats in business. I can buy sea bass year round at any seafood store. The recreational fishery should also be open year round

Well said! It should be first about managing the health of the fishery which in the case of summer flounder is not happening. It's on a 15-year decline, that's a management failure no matter how you look at it. Second it's about the equal opportunity for a public resource to be shared equitably between commercial and recreational interests with neither party's rights coming at the expense of the other.

Commercial currently gets a 60 / 40 split of the annual catch quota, even more in 2019 because of the MRIP debacle when commercial received a 50% increase over 2018 and recreational remained status quo. Due to size limit differences commercial operators have access to approximately 60% more of the harvestable biomass (defined as fish over 14") or approximately 35 million more fish from the overall biomass to fill their quotas than recreational. That in itself is tragic when most recreational anglers spend hundreds of dollars per trip and go home with an empty cooler. Commercial operators can fish year round only encumbered when seasonal quotas are filled, have observed discard rates absolutely off the charts which fisheries management is and has been aware of yet those discard rates are ignored in determining annual catch quotas. Approximately 75% of commercial landings occurs during the fall / winter months during the summer flounder spawn with approximately 65% of their quotas being filled from three zones in our local waters without knowledge of the impacts it's having on the spawn while destroying irreplaceable sea bottom habitat in the process.

Southern states (NC and VA) destroyed their local populations and are now harvesting from the biomass that winters over off our coast. Areas 613, 616 and 537. Larger fish with higher market prices are being retained, smaller and jumbo fish with lower market values are being tossed back dead, the health of the spawn is being put at enormous risk which is absolutely why recruitment levels have declined and the sea floor contour is being irreparably destroyed from the commercial armada trawling a very highly concentrated area during the fall / winter fishery. Fisheries management is allowing this to occur with full knowledge. Won't be long before this valuable fishery is irreparably destroyed if changes in the manner the fishery is being managed aren't immediately made.

[Gerry Zagorski]

This is a perfect example of over management!! SSB (sustainable stock biomass) at record high levels they've not seen in several years and well over the SSB target and we're facing cut backs??

While I'd agree I would trade a longer season/more days of fishing for a lower bag limits, with these numbers we shouldn't have to give up anything and be asking for more....

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

This is a perfect example of over management!! SSB (sustainable stock biomass) at record high levels they've not seen in several years and well over the SSB target and we're facing cut backs??

While I'd agree I would trade a longer season/more days of fishing for a lower bag limits, with these numbers we shouldn't have to give up anything and be asking for more....

Recreational and commercial were asked to make sacrifices for years and told point blank when the stock was rebuilt there would be liberalization in catch and access. Point blank we were sold a false bill of goods.