This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford

[Ken Lyons]

I was always told to play dead with a Grizzly, I have been up close but the Salmon was more enticing than me, but fight back against a Black Bear. In either case never run.
I was cornered by Abigail boar just upstream from Dingman's bridge. I had my back to the river and he blocked me from climbing up the bank an back to my car. It's a long story but I finally tried whistling loud and shrill with my fingers. He picked up his front paws, turned around and left. I continued to whistle for a good while longer.

[buzzbaiter]

Rumor has it some of the first responders had to get counseling the 'crime' scene was so bad. Sounds like he got Timothy Treadwelled...

[EJS]

Originally Posted by dakota560

BB,

That would probably cause me to end my wilderness adventures but it's a situation anyone, fisherman, hiker's, people just pulling over at a rest stop, could and probably have encountered. I'm not sure what I would have done but thank God you survived the experience to talk about it! A whistle is a good idea. Not sure there is any spray, like pepper spray, made for outdoor encounters with wildlife but it's something worth looking into. Correct me if I'm wrong but Allamuchy State Park is right near the Free Trade Zone off Rte 80 correct? If it's the place I believe it is, it's a pretty popular trail and usually has a fair amount of people but like I said we are encroaching into the bear's world and it's a world which gets smaller and smaller every year. I don't mean to come across as being insensitive to the family of the man who was killed or anyone for that matter but to simply make a blanket statement to kill bears or wildlife in general is not the answer. I have a boat and do a significant amount of fishing throughout the summer off the Jersey coast. If you ever saw long liners pulling in their 30 miles of line, hauling one large shark after another into the boat, cutting their fins off and discarding the remainder of the fish overboard still alive to suffer until it dies, it would bring a tear to anyone's eye and if it didn't you simply don't have a soul. As the world gets smaller we need to collectively address how these blurred lines are going to be better managed and wiping out one species after another isn't the answer.

Dakota

Dakota, there is Bear Spray, however NJ weapons laws prevent people from any real defence based on the regulations in 2C:39-6i.

The problem is for the quantity needed in bear spray, recommended minimum 6 seconds @ 2%-concentration in a 30' fog pattern, you need a minimum od 10oz canister! Thanks NJ for making worthless laws that only handicap the law abiding citizen!

I have seen Grizzly and black bear in the wild while hiking and fishing. its a scarey proposition. But these Students shouldn't have been in the woods that day! Carrying snacks, then running from a bear.... it takes a special kind of stupid!

Killing on mass as a by product of an industries fishing practices is not the same as killing 1 bear in self defense. How you came up with that comparrison I don't know!

Effective game managment is the answer to the problem. All these "save the bear" protests only bring us closer to bear mauling or killing #2. NJ needs to open up new hunting grounds, trap & relocate bears to less dense geographic areas, and increase tag #'s for the season.

Originally Posted by EJS

Dakota, there is Bear Spray, however NJ weapons laws prevent people from any real defence based on the regulations in 2C:39-6i.

The problem is for the quantity needed in bear spray, recommended minimum 6 seconds @ 2%-concentration in a 30' fog pattern, you need a minimum od 10oz canister! Thanks NJ for making worthless laws that only handicap the law abiding citizen!

I have seen Grizzly and black bear in the wild while hiking and fishing. its a scarey proposition. But these Students shouldn't have been in the woods that day! Carrying snacks, then running from a bear.... it takes a special kind of stupid!

Killing on mass as a by product of an industries fishing practices is not the same as killing 1 bear in self defense. How you came up with that comparrison I don't know!

Effective game managment is the answer to the problem. All these "save the bear" protests only bring us closer to bear mauling or killing #2. NJ needs to open up new hunting grounds, trap & relocate bears to less dense geographic areas, and increase tag #'s for the season.

EJS.

My response regarding what happened to the shark population was in response to Bunker Dunker's post "Where are the tree huggers now!!!!! I want one of them to go to that poor guys family and explain how cute and lovable bears are." You can see what is implied by that post and where it's headed which is kill them all. The stereotype sharks received after jaws was the only good shark is a dead shark and anyone who disagrees with that has spent no time on the water. Granted there is a world wide demand harvesting them for food BUT how many shark tournaments after Jaws was released were any species goes and every shark that was caught was dragged back to the scales, weighed and then dragged back out to sea, stomach slit and dumped. Can't tell you how many 700 - 800 lb tiger sharks in the 70's and 80's I've seen killed for the possibility of a tournament check or even worse just bragging rights back at the docks only to have the fish dumped afterwards and be completely wasted. It was an absolute disgrace what was being done to such a great resource. It's horrible what happened and it's taken probably 25 years for conservation and public opinion to change. And that's with a tremendous amount of effort by conservation minded organizations trying to save another species from making it's way onto the endangered species list. My comparison to Jaws is the stereotype the movie created and the pressure it put on all shark species is what will happen with one person tragically being killed. Last night on the news they reported the last time someone was killed in New Jersey by a bear was I believe 1850 so the fact that someone was killed over a period exceeding 150 years I guess that means that the state needs to have a massive bear hunt to reduce the resource. As a blanket statement, that's absolutely idiotic! Never proclaimed to be a bear expert and know very little about them so whoever accused me of taking that position not sure where you're getting your facts from. I've seen too many instances where the answer is always just kill the wildlife. The report last night also mentioned there were over 400 fatalities stemming from automobile accidents in New Jersey last year so I guess we need to eliminate cars in the state as well. And someone from DMV should go to every person's funeral and explain to the family how safe automobile's are!

I'm not against management programs to address situations that warrant management. When any animal poses a specific threat to people I agree they unfortunately need to be removed whatever way necessary. My point is "Where are all the tree huggers now, why doesn't one of them go to the funeral of this guy!" Wtf is the point of that comment! It makes absolutely no sense but implies we should just kill all the bears in the state and people who care about the natural resources are at fault for this guys death. Same stereotype the movie Jaws created. A person is killed by a shark, a movie in this case, and before you know it public sentiment is kill ALL sharks. That's an absolutely moronic statement to make or conclusion to draw. One person is killed in a matter of 150 years by walking into the woods with food and we should have an open season on the entire bear population or it's the tree hugger's fault.....please refrain from talking as you might continue embarrassing yourself Absolutely idiotic comment to make! That's the equivalent of saying if a person gets murdered in Newark, we should eradicate all residents of Newark because they're all dangerous. One person is killed in 150 years and the answer is to obliterate the resource.......that is a very logical perspective!!! As I said, I guess the same is true for auto accidents. We should ban all cars from driving on Rt 80 because it's simply not safe.

Broad generalizations directed towards specific problems very rarely work and they are a sign off a person with a limited IQ. Go ahead and take your shots, I actually take pride being insulted or challenged by someone who hasn't a clue. It actually reaffirms my beliefs.

Dakota

[buzzbaiter]

Originally Posted by bunker dunker

scavengers my asrs.they are hunters,ask any farmer in northern nj.they do not fear man so we become the pray.do you know what an 800lb black bear
eats........anything he wants.

They do occasionally go after large prey like deer but prefer scrounging around for nuts, berries, plant shoots and bees nests. Not a true hunter like a bobcat or coyote. Farm animals are caged, easy prey for them. Cornering a caged animal is far different then chasing one down out in the open.

[bunker dunker]

what ever you say.i'll sticki to the 10 gauge,not much question after that.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by buzzbaiter

Bears are not hunters, they are scavengers. This whole story sounds off to me. What five guys you know go for hikes together??? Pretty sure none of you call up your buddies on wednesday and say "hey, lets go hiking this weekend. I'll make sandwiches!"

They were five college guys. I used to do a lot of camping and hiking with my friends when I was that age.

The statistical probability of encountering a bear that has made the decision to kill and eat a person is very low, but any bear is physically capable of killing a person in seconds.

Bears are intelligent and very capable predators when they find something they can catch. Here is a video of a bear killing a moose calf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI


.
.

Originally Posted by buzzbaiter

Bears are not hunters, they are scavengers. This whole story sounds off to me. What five guys you know go for hikes together??? Pretty sure none of you call up your buddies on wednesday and say "hey, lets go hiking this weekend. I'll make sandwiches!"

I got chased about 8-9 years ago in Allamuchy State Park. That bear was on me before I knew it covering a good 300-400 feet in a few seconds. I climbed up a small hill, turned around and it was right there. I threw my pole, yelled/clapped and it stopped and turned away. I climbed up to the road, crossed thru traffic and ran down the shoulder. I then turned around and saw the bear with its paws on the guardrail watching me. That was not fun. Most times they simply turn away or I clap and they run away. This occasion was unusual but left its impact on me as I'm always a bit nervous while out fishing. Being someone who likes to hike miles and miles, I'm often far from safety. My best defense is whistle I carry.

BB,

That would probably cause me to end my wilderness adventures but it's a situation anyone, fisherman, hiker's, people just pulling over at a rest stop, could and probably have encountered. I'm not sure what I would have done but thank God you survived the experience to talk about it! A whistle is a good idea. Not sure there is any spray, like pepper spray, made for outdoor encounters with wildlife but it's something worth looking into. Correct me if I'm wrong but Allamuchy State Park is right near the Free Trade Zone off Rte 80 correct? If it's the place I believe it is, it's a pretty popular trail and usually has a fair amount of people but like I said we are encroaching into the bear's world and it's a world which gets smaller and smaller every year. I don't mean to come across as being insensitive to the family of the man who was killed or anyone for that matter but to simply make a blanket statement to kill bears or wildlife in general is not the answer. I have a boat and do a significant amount of fishing throughout the summer off the Jersey coast. If you ever saw long liners pulling in their 30 miles of line, hauling one large shark after another into the boat, cutting their fins off and discarding the remainder of the fish overboard still alive to suffer until it dies, it would bring a tear to anyone's eye and if it didn't you simply don't have a soul. As the world gets smaller we need to collectively address how these blurred lines are going to be better managed and wiping out one species after another isn't the answer.

Dakota