This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford

[Eskimo]

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Originally Posted by Inishmore3

This is a terrible story. I'm not a hunter. I assume a number of you are. But I think we need a bear hunt in NJ. I'm not sue if there is one. I can only imagine what the family is going through.

There is a bear season in New Jersey. It's not until early December because it runs concurrent with the opening of firearm deer season. By then, many of the bears are hibernating, but they still manage to harvest several hundred bears every year.

If they really wanted to reduce the number of bears in New Jersey, they would have a SPRING bear season like some other states do.

Maybe I'm weird, (okay I am) but I actually enjoy the rush of encountering bears when I am fishing. Anybody who fishes the Delaware River in the Water Gap area has probably encountered bears at one time or another.

Here is a pic I took of a bear I encountered one evening in April or May of the year before last. This was on the section of river just upstream from the three-minute light. I suspect he was thirsty and was waiting for me to leave so he could come down the hill for a drink of water.
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[Taxman]

The old joke was proven true, you don't have to be able to out run the bear, just your slowest companion

[Taxman]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

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There is a bear season in New Jersey. It's not until early December because it runs concurrent with the opening of firearm deer season. By then, many of the bears are hibernating, but they still manage to harvest several hundred bears every year.

If they really wanted to reduce the number of bears in New Jersey, they would have a SPRING bear season like some other states do.

Maybe I'm weird, (okay I am) but I actually enjoy the rush of encountering bears when I am fishing. Anybody who fishes the Delaware River in the Water Gap area has probably encountered bears at one time or another.

Here is a pic I took of a bear I encountered one evening in April or May of the year before last. This was on the section of river just upstream from the three-minute light. I suspect he was thirsty and was waiting for me to leave so he could come down the hill for a drink of water.
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The season was set because pregnant bear den first. They had enough issues with the tree huggers to not shoot the pregnant ones

Originally Posted by bunker dunker

were are the tree huggers now!!!!! I want one of them to go to that poor guys family and explain how cute and lovable bears are.

I'm sure this post will prompt a reply but it needs to be said. You're post make absolutely no sense. It's tragic that someone lost their life but that doesn't mean the bear population should go unprotected and it should be open season hunting them. Anytime someone strays into the wild they need to be aware of the surroundings and realize they are somewhere as previously someone said where they're not the apex predator. It's the same thing that happened with sharks when jaws was releases and the world was immediately brain washed into thinking the only good shark is a dead shark. The world population of sharks has plummeted ever since and it's nothing short of brutal what has happened to every shark species on the planet. Society has over developed every parcel of land and pushed these and all animals to the brink. We go into their territory and then blame them for when an accident like this happens yet it's fine to kill thousands of them a year. If opinions like yours were the edict of the day, there wouldn't be a bear, deer or any animal left in the woods or a shark in the ocean. Accidents happen when people go into the wilderness and as tragic as it is it's part of the balance which exists in this world. That doesn't warrant in my opinion the extermination of a species. Some hunters like fisherman are conservation minded but many want to kill anything and everything that moves. That's not the answer but that's the behavior posts like yours will provoke.

Like I said it's tragic someone lost their life and it's tragic the bear also had to be put down but it had to be. It's what happens when a civilized society keeps pushing the boundaries with wilderness to the point where one day you won't have to worry about bear attacks because there won't be any bears left to attack with opinions and attitudes like yours.

My condolences to the family who lost a child.

Dakota

Originally Posted by Eskimo

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There is a bear season in New Jersey. It's not until early December because it runs concurrent with the opening of firearm deer season. By then, many of the bears are hibernating, but they still manage to harvest several hundred bears every year.

If they really wanted to reduce the number of bears in New Jersey, they would have a SPRING bear season like some other states do.

Maybe I'm weird, (okay I am) but I actually enjoy the rush of encountering bears when I am fishing. Anybody who fishes the Delaware River in the Water Gap area has probably encountered bears at one time or another.

Here is a pic I took of a bear I encountered one evening in April or May of the year before last. This was on the section of river just upstream from the three-minute light. I suspect he was thirsty and was waiting for me to leave so he could come down the hill for a drink of water.
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Eskimo,

Your post hits home. I started fishing the area you mentioned this year after many years of being away from the river. Last week I noticed droppings on the river which had to be a bear, all berries and too large to be anything else. When I fish that stretch, I fish along the rivers edge but on the way back I typically will walk up to the path which parallels the road to walk back to my car which is parked next to the three minute light. Every time I walk that path I think nothing other than this must be prime bear territory which I know it is. As I said in my earlier post, it's a risk I take fishing that stretch. i wouldn't suggest all bears in the Water Gap area be hunted down because as I said I'm infringing on their domain and it is what it is. If there's any area where bears have moved into a populated area I would take a different position but when people decide to spend their leisure time in the wilderness there are risks associated with that choice. I don't agree that killing every bear that calls the woods it's home is the solution.

Just for what it's worth which is what actually got me started thinking about bears along that stretch was when I started fishing there around June, there were hundreds if not thousands of dead shad on the river bank from the shad run. The stench was very strong and if there were any bears in the area I assume they would be down at the river after dark for a free meal. I'm sure they are. Absolutely something to think about after reading this thread. Probably won't be fishing into dark there anymore. Walleyes and small mouths just aren't worth the risk!

Dakota

Originally Posted by gwl2oneida

Unfortunately no one was allowed to carry a legal firearm. A few warning shots would have more than likely been a life saver. Shame on nj lawmakers. As a ny resident I don't consider hiking this time of year without my glock.

Gwl,

Couldn't agree with you more. For bureaucrats to prevent people from protecting themselves is insane. I'm sure there's other matters to consider but why not allow people who hike to carry a firearm to protect themselves. The right to bear arms is an issue which will be argued forever but in the case of someone hiking in the wilderness there really is no other way to avoid what happened in this tragic situation other than to have some type of firearm to scare the bear away. Does it guarantee everyone would carry a firearm, certainly not, but is it an option which could save someone's life absolutely. It would also help preserve the balance between nature and society which is a delicate balance but one we can't ignore and think the only answer is to kill everything that moves. These animals are absolutely beautiful but they are wild and need to be respected and given their distance. As I said we are infringing on their land and there's less and less land every year they can survive in due to our own populations issues. If the right to carry a firearm addresses the right to protect one's self in the event anyone finds themselves in the same situation these five gentlemen in West Milford did, why would legislators not pass that law. It's something which should be revisited.

Dakota

Originally Posted by buzzbaiter

Bears are not hunters, they are scavengers. This whole story sounds off to me. What five guys you know go for hikes together??? Pretty sure none of you call up your buddies on wednesday and say "hey, lets go hiking this weekend. I'll make sandwiches!"

I got chased about 8-9 years ago in Allamuchy State Park. That bear was on me before I knew it covering a good 300-400 feet in a few seconds. I climbed up a small hill, turned around and it was right there. I threw my pole, yelled/clapped and it stopped and turned away. I climbed up to the road, crossed thru traffic and ran down the shoulder. I then turned around and saw the bear with its paws on the guardrail watching me. That was not fun. Most times they simply turn away or I clap and they run away. This occasion was unusual but left its impact on me as I'm always a bit nervous while out fishing. Being someone who likes to hike miles and miles, I'm often far from safety. My best defense is whistle I carry.

BB,

That would probably cause me to end my wilderness adventures but it's a situation anyone, fisherman, hiker's, people just pulling over at a rest stop, could and probably have encountered. I'm not sure what I would have done but thank God you survived the experience to talk about it! A whistle is a good idea. Not sure there is any spray, like pepper spray, made for outdoor encounters with wildlife but it's something worth looking into. Correct me if I'm wrong but Allamuchy State Park is right near the Free Trade Zone off Rte 80 correct? If it's the place I believe it is, it's a pretty popular trail and usually has a fair amount of people but like I said we are encroaching into the bear's world and it's a world which gets smaller and smaller every year. I don't mean to come across as being insensitive to the family of the man who was killed or anyone for that matter but to simply make a blanket statement to kill bears or wildlife in general is not the answer. I have a boat and do a significant amount of fishing throughout the summer off the Jersey coast. If you ever saw long liners pulling in their 30 miles of line, hauling one large shark after another into the boat, cutting their fins off and discarding the remainder of the fish overboard still alive to suffer until it dies, it would bring a tear to anyone's eye and if it didn't you simply don't have a soul. As the world gets smaller we need to collectively address how these blurred lines are going to be better managed and wiping out one species after another isn't the answer.

Dakota

[briansnat]

Originally Posted by buzzbaiter

Bears are not hunters, they are scavengers. This whole story sounds off to me. What five guys you know go for hikes together??? Pretty sure none of you call up your buddies on wednesday and say "hey, lets go hiking this weekend. I'll make sandwiches!"

Black bear are mostly scavengers but they do hunt. Evolution gave them that speed for a reason and it wasn't for running away. Ask any deer.

As far as guys going for hikes together, don't be so sure. I've been hiking with my buddies since high school days. Well, we bring our own sandwiches.

Originally Posted by acabtp

very sad but they are apex predators and adult males in NJ start around 250# and range up to 800+# so unfortunately it was only a matter of time before this happened. bear numbers are exploding and the state is being hamstrung on population control by the "save nj bear" group etc. condolences to his family.

When the bear hunt was first proposed I wrote a letter to the editor that was printed in several newspapers that said the very same thing - that it was just a matter of time before someone was killed.

The bear population is not proportional to available habitat. That combined with the most dense human population in the nation is not a good mix.
The media keeps making a big deal about this being the first time in 150 years this happened in NJ. What they are missing is that bear have largely been non existent n NJ throughout the late 18th and most of the 20th centuries. It's only in the past decade or two that their population has exploded.

Originally Posted by dakota560

I'm sure this post will prompt a reply but it needs to be said. You're post make absolutely no sense. It's tragic that someone lost their life but that doesn't mean the bear population should go unprotected and it should be open season hunting them. Anytime someone strays into the wild they need to be aware of the surroundings and realize they are somewhere as previously someone said where they're not the apex predator. It's the same thing that happened with sharks when jaws was releases and the world was immediately brain washed into thinking the only good shark is a dead shark. The world population of sharks has plummeted ever since and it's nothing short of brutal what has happened to every shark species on the planet. Society has over developed every parcel of land and pushed these and all animals to the brink. We go into their territory and then blame them for when an accident like this happens yet it's fine to kill thousands of them a year. If opinions like yours were the edict of the day, there wouldn't be a bear, deer or any animal left in the woods or a shark in the ocean. Accidents happen when people go into the wilderness and as tragic as it is it's part of the balance which exists in this world. That doesn't warrant in my opinion the extermination of a species. Some hunters like fisherman are conservation minded but many want to kill anything and everything that moves. That's not the answer but that's the behavior posts like yours will provoke.

Like I said it's tragic someone lost their life and it's tragic the bear also had to be put down but it had to be. It's what happens when a civilized society keeps pushing the boundaries with wilderness to the point where one day you won't have to worry about bear attacks because there won't be any bears left to attack with opinions and attitudes like yours.

My condolences to the family who lost a child.

Dakota

Yep, it prompted a reply. First, the the movie Jaws had nothing to do with the plummet in the shark population. Sure there may be a few yahoos who kill sharks for fun the way some shoot rattlesnakes. The plunge in shark numbers is because of their popularity as food, particularly in Asia.

Regarding bear in NJ, their population has not been "Pushed to the brink". There are probably more bear in NJ now than there have been in 100 or more years. They are thriving, and that's the problem.

As far as our "going into their territory", Manhattan, Newark, Hoboken, Paterson and Camden were once bear habitat. Precisely where does "their" territory begin and "ours" end now? Are the people who live in suburban Wayne, Totowa or West Orange in "their" territory or "ours"? I ask because bear have been caught wandering these suburban communities over the past few years.

[bunker dunker]

well dakota560 you sound like you know allot about bears.how close have you ever been to one.have you ever watched them for any lenth of time in the woods.my sons and I have hunted them in 4 different states and Canada.they are and always will be hunters.if they think they can catch and kill something they will.thats how they survive.i was lucky enough to harvest a bear a few years back and while I was at the check in station I was called a murderer among many other "nice" things buy those "nice" peeps who think the bear is a warm and fuzzy friend.the are wild animals that can reach 800lbs and can move full dumpsters around like they are empty coke cans.i am glad there is a bear season and think all hunters like myself should obey and follow all rules.
there are to many bears per square mile and the population just keeps growing.fish and game would love for us to think there are only 2k in the whole state.this was going to happen sooner or later.its like mixing bicycles
and cars on the road,sooner or later bad things happen.we are all sorry for the family and friends of the victim.no offense to the bikers out there.

[EJS]

Originally Posted by dakota560

BB,

That would probably cause me to end my wilderness adventures but it's a situation anyone, fisherman, hiker's, people just pulling over at a rest stop, could and probably have encountered. I'm not sure what I would have done but thank God you survived the experience to talk about it! A whistle is a good idea. Not sure there is any spray, like pepper spray, made for outdoor encounters with wildlife but it's something worth looking into. Correct me if I'm wrong but Allamuchy State Park is right near the Free Trade Zone off Rte 80 correct? If it's the place I believe it is, it's a pretty popular trail and usually has a fair amount of people but like I said we are encroaching into the bear's world and it's a world which gets smaller and smaller every year. I don't mean to come across as being insensitive to the family of the man who was killed or anyone for that matter but to simply make a blanket statement to kill bears or wildlife in general is not the answer. I have a boat and do a significant amount of fishing throughout the summer off the Jersey coast. If you ever saw long liners pulling in their 30 miles of line, hauling one large shark after another into the boat, cutting their fins off and discarding the remainder of the fish overboard still alive to suffer until it dies, it would bring a tear to anyone's eye and if it didn't you simply don't have a soul. As the world gets smaller we need to collectively address how these blurred lines are going to be better managed and wiping out one species after another isn't the answer.

Dakota

Dakota, there is Bear Spray, however NJ weapons laws prevent people from any real defence based on the regulations in 2C:39-6i.

The problem is for the quantity needed in bear spray, recommended minimum 6 seconds @ 2%-concentration in a 30' fog pattern, you need a minimum od 10oz canister! Thanks NJ for making worthless laws that only handicap the law abiding citizen!

I have seen Grizzly and black bear in the wild while hiking and fishing. its a scarey proposition. But these Students shouldn't have been in the woods that day! Carrying snacks, then running from a bear.... it takes a special kind of stupid!

Killing on mass as a by product of an industries fishing practices is not the same as killing 1 bear in self defense. How you came up with that comparrison I don't know!

Effective game managment is the answer to the problem. All these "save the bear" protests only bring us closer to bear mauling or killing #2. NJ needs to open up new hunting grounds, trap & relocate bears to less dense geographic areas, and increase tag #'s for the season.