The charter/party industry...

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by Ol Pedro

Could it be that there are so many part timers with 6 pac tickets ? We all know at least one guy in our Inlet that does it because It's an extention of his hobby . He just wants to write off his boat/expenses and fish when he wants to . Carry a few charters/open partys break even. Most of the part timers that I know are good people who fish hard and need the money. attrition doesn't work if it's not a major part of your Living Expenses .

That is what i am getting at here and mostly everyones comments are falling into the same area. I have brought this up before.. why do people sell themselves short? If you are charging 100 per man for a 6 pack and the guy next marina over is charging 125-140 why would you not charge more and be up to par with everyone else? The answers is simple, they do not need to do that much per day to cover their costs since likely they are either not looking at a full time gig or they are not looking to do anything but fish. So why do it? Take cape may for instance, used to be one of the largest striped bass fleets down there, everyone did it and for good money, then the little part time and even some full time guys came in and took a dump on the industry, now it was the old "why fish with boat 1 for 130 a guy, when i can go and fish with boat 2, for 60 bucks for 5 hours.. the difference is clear i most eyes yet some do not see it.

I also see pretty good fishermen come into the industry and sell themselves short. why charge 100 per guy for an inshore trip when you can get 125-140 or whatever all day long? why not make the most you can out of our short shitty seasons up here?

Same with offshore, why charge 2500 for an overnighter when you can charger 3300-3800 and make more money and be up to par with everyone else?

[Flukinator]

What about the full-timers who charge more than everyone else and are still booked solid all season-long? All the part-time captains could charge 20 bucks a head for a tuna trip, and the Canyon Runner would still be booked solid all season. Don't blame some guys with low prices for "ruining" an industry. The local fishing industry has WAY more issues stacked against it, including non-sensical regulations, a changing society where fishing just isn't as popular as it once was, more environmentalists spreading anti-fishing non-sense, etc.

Price-fixing is certainly not the answer to saving anyone's business.

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by tombanjo

Maybe worried about laws against collusion?

collusion would have nothing to do with industry standards, no one is lowering or raising prices secretively, they are not doing it in order to cheat anyone... it would just be a simple industry meeting to discuss where pricing should be and discuss how to make the industry better as a whole.. and remember, this is just my opinion!

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by Flukinator

What about the full-timers who charge more than everyone else and are still booked solid all season-long? All the part-time captains could charge 20 bucks a head for a tuna trip, and the Canyon Runner would still be booked solid all season. Don't blame some guys with low prices for "ruining" an industry. The local fishing industry has WAY more issues stacked against it, including non-sensical regulations, a changing society where fishing just isn't as popular as it once was, more environmentalists spreading anti-fishing non-sense, etc.

Price-fixing is certainly not the answer to saving anyone's business.

your comparing apples to oranges throwing a name like that out there... might point is not that, my point is why charge less for a service you could get more for? what is the reason? it sure as shit is not because anyones costs are less, and if they are that much less, then why not try to make as much as you can. And you can sure blame guys who charge out of control low prices for ruining an industry.. The bass fishery in cape may has not changed, but try to find boat that does not have to run open boats and go with a few guys here and there to keep busy.

[MrAC1980]

What do you think is better? Going out with 3 guys paying $125 or 6 guys paying $100 bucks? Some of the captains need to have a better understanding of business. Give the guys who sign up a break saying if we fill the Charter it'll be cheaper and actually hand money back to them! Or run cheaper rates during the week vs weekend rates. That'll get them to entice their friends to maybe join for the cheaper rate as well.
I'm a private boat owner so haven't run the numbers for insurance and slip fees, but it can't be costing anywhere near $750 to run inshore fluke, seabass/blackfish trips...?

[nancy corigan]

sportfishingusa this is a free market economy in a way, I say in a way because some markets aren't, like when they do what you suggest, all charter boats should band together to charge everyone one set price that is called MAP pricing (Minimum Average Price).

That is evil to me as I like competition and the free market.

I sell on ebay and people always try and undercut other sellers by way of lower prices and thats fine if the want a smaller margin it's on them. I make my money and they make theirs and it's all good.

I live by how my mom raised me, worry about yourself and your business and don't worry about someone else'. You will retain a higher quality client this way.

[reefsquater]

The way it goes, like it or not, is that our economy is a free market one.
Getting your six pack license is not that difficult or expensive to do. Reputation goes a long way to price. I know there are some charters who command a very steep price. For some, it is worth the expense for others they say they are crazy to ask that much. I say if they can get it, good for them. I also say if a guy wants to sail everyday for less then what it actually costs him, good for him. He will probably not last long.

If you try to get together and set a price someone will take advantage of it. Did you see the reaction two years ago to the groupon buy one get one free trip a NS party boat offered? Well, everyone around was mad that there were people on his boat. " He's ruining the industry, no one is going to work with him, etc. I saw more people on that boat last year when there were no more Groupons then ever before. I heard him called in on a bite by one of the same guys that bashed him. Dock politics works in mysterious ways!

Also, Many people get started in the industry as a supplement to their hobby (I guess they like to take the fun out of it) A lot of guys just want to be on the water. If you are starting out, you want to work up your business. So, if you want to spend the whole day working to prove yourself and just break even, or even lose a couple bucks why not?
Doctors, teachers, policeman, etc...many own and charter their boats. They all started somewhere.

If you want to start an offshore tuna fishing charter do you think you will get 900 a man your first trip out? Or will you get 325 a man and just cover the expenses?

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by MrAC1980

What do you think is better? Going out with 3 guys paying $125 or 6 guys paying $100 bucks? Some of the captains need to have a better understanding of business. Give the guys who sign up a break saying if we fill the Charter it'll be cheaper and actually hand money back to them! Or run cheaper rates during the week vs weekend rates. That'll get them to entice their friends to maybe join for the cheaper rate as well.
I'm a private boat owner so haven't run the numbers for insurance and slip fees, but it can't be costing anywhere near $750 to run inshore fluke, seabass/blackfish trips...?

think it is better to not sail then go with 3 at 125. lol


You got to take these costs.

Fuel
Bait
Oil
oil filter
insurance
slip
payroll (mate)
tax
boat cost (if any payments)


There is a lot of dollars and sense... i understand not everyone can sail every single day with 6 guys at 125 or 140 bucks a head, but if you can sail with 6 guys at 100 why not charge "industry" standard and make some more money for the days you sail or the days you have to sail light?

[sportfishingusa]

and finally it took one post like this to liven up the crowd hahahah

[PaulNreel]

Charter boats are no different than any other business. Its pricing is governed by supply and demand. If you have too many boats or not enough fisherman the prices will drop as captains make the economic choice of lowering their fare to increase their load. I have to admire the captains that go out with a minimum of fisherman where they may not break even. These captains have my loyalty, my business and I don't complain when the rails are packed. Eventually an equilibrium is reached where you have a balance of charters and fisherman, prices stabilize. As the economy weakens discretionary spending drops (less money to go fishing) charter prices drop, maybe some go out of business (a sad reality) the supply of charters matches the fisherman. But here is light at the end of the tunnel, as the economy improves, discretionary spending improves, the rails get crowded, prices go up and entrepreneurial mates become captains. One thing we should all do is take a kid (or non fishing friend) fishing. As they get hooked (pun intended) the growing number of fisherman will increase demand and maintain the diversity of charters we all want.