NMFS proposes to reduce the hake possession limit

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by reason162

I completely agree with you re Citizens.

However I don't see the regulatory people (and I suppose the environmental/conservation constituency) as analogous to the fat cats buying up policy makers. Those people are on the other side, the commercial side. We recreational guys are just caught in the middle.

The common theme on this (and other) fishing forums is that somehow there are people getting rich off imposing quotas on fisheries. I can't even begin to comprehend the logic of this argument. Surely the greed lies on the side of people who stand to profit off catching fish?

That's not to say that I agree with all regs. I can accept that the science is flawed in some cases, thin in others. I just find the knee-jerk reaction to any talk of regulations as "big government getting rich off us common folk" pretty hilarious.

Reason - Follow the money.... Are the people at NOAA who manage our fisheries "getting rich off us common folk" ? No, they are common folk just like you and me.... Do they eventually report up to people who are bought and paid for and are creating laws that favor Lobbyists, Special Interest Groups who all bought their favor with campaign funds.... You can bet they are. If not your head is in the sand... That's the way our political system functions.

It's not a fairly tale, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact.

The commercial guys have a very strong lobby in all the upline businesses that make billions of dollars off of what is a public resource. Do you think they don't make contributions to people who are infuencial in fighting to protect their cause? I can assure you they do. Even we as Recreation Fisherman do the same. I know for a fact that a some of the money we donate to Recreational Fishing organizations go to Lobbyists and making donations to political campaign funds and oh by the way, on both parties to cover our bets.

Does all this make it right? No!! Why should any of us on either side have to spend the money on Fat Cats that should be spent on better science...

The answer is, that is how the system works.....The Fat Cats get what they need and we get screwed based on who deposited a larger check to the person in power who was eventually elected.

It's all about money and power and to think otherwise is, to quote you, "hilarious".

[makosnax]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Reason - Follow the money.... Are the people at NOAA who manage our fisheries "getting rich off us common folk" ? No, they are common folk just like you and me.... Do they eventually report up to people who are bought and paid for by Lobbyists, Special Interest Groups, all trying to buy favor with campaign funds.... You can bet they are. If not your head is in the sand... That's the way our political system functions.

It's not a fairly tale, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact.

The commercial guys have a very strong lobby in all the upline businesses that make billions of dollars off of what is a public resource. Do you think they don't make contributions to people who are infuencial in fighting to protect their cause? I can assure you they do. Even we as Recreation Fisherman do the same. I know for a fact that a some of the money we donate to Recreational Fishing organizations go to Lobbyists and making donations to political campaign funds and oh by the way, on both parties to cover our bets.

Does all this make it right? No!! Why should any of us on either side have to spend the money on Fat Cats that should be spent on better science...

The answer is, that is how the system works.....The Fat Cats get what they need and we get screwed based on who deposited a larger check to the person in power who was eventually elected.

It's all about money and power and to think otherwise is, to quote you, "hilarious".

When are we getting a "Like" button?

[Detour66]

The only way rules well be changed in our favor is for Recreational Fisherman to organize nationally like the NRA and hire lobbyist to fight for our cause. Also voting for the politicians that support us will help also. Anything else will be a waste of time and effort sorry to say !! Money and votes win every-time....bottom line and The NRA is a perfect example!

[shrimpman steve]

like. 👍

[reason162]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Reason - Follow the money.... Are the people at NOAA who manage our fisheries "getting rich off us common folk" ? No, they are common folk just like you and me.... Do they eventually report up to people who are bought and paid for and are creating laws that favor Lobbyists, Special Interest Groups who all bought their favor with campaign funds....

This is so convoluted I don't know where to begin.

Sure, our system allows moneyed lobbying for policy. It doesn't have to be this way (plenty of Western democracies don't allow anything close to our scale of pay to play), but it's the system we have.

So when it comes to fishery regulations, cut away all the bullshit and you have two competing "special interests" locking horns: the commercial, for-profit fishery vs. the conservationists.

If the commercial guys win, they get to keep more fish; hence, they make more money. If the conservationists win, what do they get? Do they get more money? It seems to me like you're saying they do (or someone, somewhere in that camp is getting rich), and that's what I find hilarious. The argument doesn't even begin to be coherent.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by reason162

This is so convoluted I don't know where to begin.

Sure, our system allows moneyed lobbying for policy. It doesn't have to be this way (plenty of Western democracies don't allow anything close to our scale of pay to play), but it's the system we have.

So when it comes to fishery regulations, cut away all the bullshit and you have two competing "special interests" locking horns: the commercial, for-profit fishery vs. the conservationists.

If the commercial guys win, they get to keep more fish; hence, they make more money. If the conservationists win, what do they get? Do they get more money? It seems to me like you're saying they do (or someone, somewhere in that camp is getting rich), and that's what I find hilarious. The argument doesn't even begin to be coherent.

I'm confused here but that's nothing new and I think maybe we are looking at this from a totally different perspective and we might be saying the same thing.

My argument is not about the money being made by Commercial Guys or the Conservationist. It's about how those groups can influence our political system.

Yes, the Commercial Fishing Industry makes more money if the laws and quotas are favorable to them. What I'm saying is the politicians making the laws are the ones who are profiting by taking money from their Lobbyists.

Conservationist group motives are a bit different... It's not money they are after it's promoting their ideology. If they win their conservation agenda gets advanced. However that is not to say these groups don't throw money and votes around and influence politicians making the laws just like the Commercial interests do.

[Poncho]

It's April 9th! Shouldn't we be all fishing or getting tackle or boats ready to fish! Screw all this political bullshit, JUST FISH!

There's only two things any of us need to concern ourselves with. First is how do we reduce the over fishing of any fishery by commercial concerns. Technology and the amount of boats fishing these days will destroy every stock in the ocean without regulations or realistic quotas.

Second is until the powers to be deal with the above, doesn't matter what the regs are because I have no intention of following them. No going to subsidize politicians bank accounts and the commercial industry by throwing back fish that end up in nets and at the market for $20 a pound!

Sick and tired of getting it up the a&s by politicians, time to make our own rules.Property taxes, sales tax, state withholding tax, federal withholding tax, real estate transfer tax...........politicians have their greedy hands so far into every one of our bank accounts as it stands now the last thing I'm going to do is allow them to ruin a sport that every one of us has a God given right to enjoy. Not going to allow some bureaucrat in Washington or Trenton to dictate what I can and can't do with a resource which is being taken away from recreational anglers to subsidize big business profits and politicians bank accounts. When commercial concerns are reeled in, I'll play ball but until that happens it's time to take matters into our own hands. Every other aspect of our lives are negatively impacted in some way by government personally I refuse to kowtow to government in their efforts to ruin a recreational sport we've all enjoyed our entire lives. Not going to happen in this lifetime!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

I'm confused here but that's nothing new and I think maybe we are looking at this from a totally different perspective and we might be saying the same thing.

My argument is not about the money being made by Commercial Guys or the Conservationist. It's about how those groups can influence our political system.

Yes, the Commercial Fishing Industry makes more money if the laws and quotas are favorable to them. What I'm saying is the politicians making the laws are the ones who are profiting by taking money from their Lobbyists.

Conservationist group motives are a bit different... It's not money they are after it's promoting their ideology. If they win their conservation agenda gets advanced. However that is not to say these groups don't throw money and votes around and influence politicians making the laws just like the Commercial interests do.

Read this http://fishtruth.net/