Where the bay stripers went last year! Must read!!

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I doubt that illegal immigrants are putting a massive dent in the population... not having access to boats limits their catch. On the rec side, years of killing 30-50# breeders is where the big damage happens - most guys catching those are fully legal and well equipped.

Stripers Forever agenda is just fine with me. Stripers are simply too valuable a resource to be a commercial food fish... commercial guys should find a market for sea robins and feel free to take all the pout you want.

On the rec side, there is absolutely no reason anybody needs to keep more than 1 bass a day. Putting the 36" minimum back up would help regain a little of the fish's mystique... we've managed them like they are panfish.

I feel bad that folks think a 28" fish is a STRIPED BASS... you haven't really experienced what it feels like to catch a striper until you've broke 40"s.

i agree that stripers are a game fish.1 bass per day works for some people.i eat mine fresh so one fish is enough.now here is the problem.if the bass are 28 to30inches and i have a charter what do i do.how many charters can i book with a bag limit of 1?how about all of the party boats that make a living with school size stripers.the agenda of stripers forever in no way reflects the needs or the reality of the for hire industry.we do not need to harvest millions of bass but we need a reasonable bag limit to stay in bussines.

[1captainron]

Good point Sal. At the last council meeting a couple weeks ago, an idea was put out there on the Stripers.....1 fish at 24 inches, the second 34 and over!!
This is the same thing we had 4 years ago and it was a joke!
Mind you, it was just a presentation, food for thought and impute from the public.

The 24 would certainly help me, the 34 would kill us and a whole lot of bass in between, with way too many stressed out fish going back.
It never makes any sense does it!!

[Slacker]

Originally Posted by Capt Sal Cathy Sea Charters

i agree that stripers are a game fish.1 bass per day works for some people.i eat mine fresh so one fish is enough.now here is the problem.if the bass are 28 to30inches and i have a charter what do i do.how many charters can i book with a bag limit of 1?how about all of the party boats that make a living with school size stripers.the agenda of stripers forever in no way reflects the needs or the reality of the for hire industry.we do not need to harvest millions of bass but we need a reasonable bag limit to stay in bussines.

I hear your concerns, Capt. I'm not in the business, so I will defer to your opinion on this question... "Would telling a 6 pack charter that they can only keep 6 bass significantly cut down on your bookings?".

Ultimately, the question is as a recreational captain, could you make more money if this fish is treated as a trophy or as a meat fish. For a 6 pack charter operation, with tighter limits, I think you'd have a better chance of getting fares into 35-36" fish day in and day out, rather than the current drill of relatively small fish.

Personally, I think you'd get more charters if bigger fish were a more realistic possibility. People drop $400-500 for the experience, the feel and sound of a big fish pulling drag, the trophy photo, etc... not for 4 fillets of a marginal tasting fish.

A friend of mine runs charters in Montauk. Doesn't keep a fish all Fall and is booked every day.

Party boats are a thornier issue. They can't be as flexible as a 6 pack in where and how they fish for bass. They have been forced to treat bass like meat fish due to getting regularly hosed on flounder, fluke, seabass, porgies, etc. The bass season gets longer and longer because the fluke season gets shorter and shorter. I don't want to put them out of business with regulations... I also don't want to see them put out of business because the bottom falls out of the fishery.

[mitch]

I haven't posted in awhile but do read almost everyday. My 2 cents is yes many not just illegals, are fishing and keeping though not sure how anyone can know each person fishing from public piers and docks are not legal citizens, many of us do at one time or another, my wife works in Hoboken and she as well as I walk the new park/pier their and do see many who fish that spot, many old timers many regulars, and many who yes keep small fish, I can guarrentee they all are not illegals as thought! But the police are always around and I'm sure the state knows about these waterfront fishing holes. I can attest to more short fish are being taken from private boats then private people off the shores, wish I had a nickle for everytime we were given the "salute" for yelling at somebody throwing a baby into the cooler!
I personally would like to see the slot bass come back the smaller bass are by far the better tasting, a 26" or 28" is nicer meat than a 34" or 40" by far, better taste better quality. And the bigger breeders are getting few and far between more because "I think" they are smarter than the smaller fish and realize, why keep going back to the spot we're harrassed each year, so I think they just find different, safer, quieter habitats to live and breed, a.k.a. why the upper Hudson is seeing less and less right?.
Give us the 2 slot size again and maybe the bonus tag fish could be a 30" or 34"+ instead of just a 3rd fish. That may cover both sides of the issue maybe?.
As for loosing customers, yes it's location, location, location, Montouge will always have that fan base just like here in Jersey, if you want say Bluefish you'll go to shark river or Pt. P not A.H. though they all go to the same basic spots, that's just how it is. The same as even getting down to what type of fishing you want will depend on what boat you go on, back bay verses channel fishing, and so on. Bottom line the economy weather anyone wants to admit it or not has hurt all aspects of our lives, many more than the lucky few, God bless those few. A good day for us and the PB Capts use to be 50-60 fares, the last couple years, now 20-30 fares the Capts are you know what in their you know whats!
We all have to give and bend and stand up for our rights or else all of our boats will look like those NY PB as 2 days a week out with 5-6 fares on a 90ft boat! that is a sin!!!
We all must do our part or nobody will be around! store owners, gas stations, rental owners, nobody, do we want to look like Sheepshead bay?? or some of these other towns? Yes we feel it because we live in Jersey but it's all over and fishing will become a thing of the past for most of us as did sports and seeing games live. I use to have season tickets for the Mets (in '86), i'd have to sell my house for 1 season of my old seats now.
It's not an easy fight but we do have to adjust somewhere in the middle or we all will loose!

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I hear your concerns, Capt. I'm not in the business, so I will defer to your opinion on this question... "Would telling a 6 pack charter that they can only keep 6 bass significantly cut down on your bookings?".

Ultimately, the question is as a recreational captain, could you make more money if this fish is treated as a trophy or as a meat fish. For a 6 pack charter operation, with tighter limits, I think you'd have a better chance of getting fares into 35-36" fish day in and day out, rather than the current drill of relatively small fish.

Personally, I think you'd get more charters if bigger fish were a more realistic possibility. People drop $400-500 for the experience, the feel and sound of a big fish pulling drag, the trophy photo, etc... not for 4 fillets of a marginal tasting fish.

A friend of mine runs charters in Montauk. Doesn't keep a fish all Fall and is booked every day.

Party boats are a thornier issue. They can't be as flexible as a 6 pack in where and how they fish for bass. They have been forced to treat bass like meat fish due to getting regularly hosed on flounder, fluke, seabass, porgies, etc. The bass season gets longer and longer because the fluke season gets shorter and shorter. I don't want to put them out of business with regulations... I also don't want to see them put out of business because the bottom falls out of the fishery.

i don't know what you you do for a living.i know what i do.i could care less what 1 charter boat out of montauk does.i know what works here and every other state on the east coast that has a striper run.stick to what you do and leave the for hire industry to us capts.i think i said that as politely as i can.

[w_b]

keep it simple, at 2 @28"
add a slot fish if the best avail science warrants (I don't think it does yet)
keep the NJ bonus tag program, it's your option to participate or not
as has been said the 34" rule will result in more dead from improper C&R

[Slacker]

Originally Posted by w_b

as has been said the 34" rule will result in more dead from improper C&R

I was about done with this thread, but the logic gap in this thought process dragged me back in.

The idea that a larger size limit results in more dead fish is total bunk... and here is why. The number of fish hooked in a trip is not impacted by size limits.

No one stops fishing just because they caught their limit. They can catch their limit in 10 minutes and then they keep fishing and releasing fish all day until the trip is over.

If you catch 10 bass and
(example 1) release all 10 OR
(example 2) release 8 & put 2 in the cooler,
you still have hooked 10 bass.

So, if your hook mortality (fish that unintentionally die due to being hooked) is 10%:

in example 1, you will have statistically sent away 1 floater (killed 1 fish).

In example 2, you will have statistically sent away .8 floaters (gotta treat this as a dead one 'cause your either alive or dead - regardless of what the math might say) and have 2 dead ones in the box (killed 3 fish - your 2 in the box and 1 due to hook mortality).

The idea that a smaller size limit actually SAVES fish would hold water ONLY if people caught their limit and then had to go sit in the cabin.

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I was about done with this thread, but the logic gap in this thought process dragged me back in.

The idea that a larger size limit results in more dead fish is total bunk... and here is why. The number of fish hooked in a trip is not impacted by size limits.

No one stops fishing just because they caught their limit. They can catch their limit in 10 minutes and then they keep fishing and releasing fish all day until the trip is over.

If you catch 10 bass and
(example 1) release all 10 OR
(example 2) release 8 & put 2 in the cooler,
you still have hooked 10 bass.

So, if your hook mortality (fish that unintentionally die due to being hooked) is 10%:

in example 1, you will have statistically sent away 1 floater (killed 1 fish).

In example 2, you will have statistically sent away .8 floaters (gotta treat this as a dead one 'cause your either alive or dead - regardless of what the math might say) and have 2 dead ones in the box (killed 3 fish - your 2 in the box and 1 due to hook mortality).

The idea that a smaller size limit actually SAVES fish would hold water ONLY if people caught their limit and then had to go sit in the cabin.

is this in your''expert'' opinion.your data is as flawed as noaa!!!!

[Slacker]

Did I make a math error? If so, please explain.

There's no "data" in my post, so that can't be the problem. I put up a simple math problem. The 10% mortality was hypothetical for the purpose of the example.

If you're arguing that the thought process of the post is wrong, then how about you explain how a higher size limit kills more fish than a smaller size limit. I like to learn new things. I'm looking forward to your explanation.

[Tony Cav]

Unfortunately, to talk about catch and release mortality will only give the tree huggers ammo.



Aren't stripers already listed as a "Game Fish" in New Jersey?