2024 Fluke Regs

[Broad Bill]

Question, Hammer on the initial thread you wrote JH wrote in the Fisherman the quota in 2024 would be cut as follows:

In terms of summer flounder, the 2023 management track assessment indicated that the fluke stock was not overfished but overfishing was occurring in 2022 which is expected to result in a reduction of the recreational harvest limit (RHL) by nearly 40% – from 10.62 million pounds to 6.35 million pounds – for the 2024 season. As a side note, I love how they spin doctor this by saying "the fishery is not overfished but overfishing is occurring requiring a 40% landings reduction". Only the government could make a contradictory statement like that and get away with it.

Back to my question, in 2017 actual RHL was reported at 10.06 million pounds and New Jersey's daily possession limit was 3 fish @ 18". Season was 5/25 through 9/5 or 103 days.

If the management track assessment is reducing RHL by almost 4 million lbs. in 2024 versus 2017 to 6.35 million lbs., how would NMFS allows the same daily possession and minimum size limit as 2017, 3 fish at 18", and increase days and fishing effort to 141 days or 38 more days in the 2024 season under Option 30? Makes no sense. Lets leave the bag limit and size minimums the same but increase the season length by 37% to reduce landings by 4 million lbs. That's the thought process of the people tasked with making decisions about the health and well being of these fisheries.

Also it resolves issues many have with the slot by doing away with it, other than for party boats and shore based anglers who benefit from a slot. But it continues the practice of killing almost exclusively all female breeders which is at the heart of the problem with the fishery. I agree a paper thin slot serves no purpose but Option 30 will continues the regulations which contrubuted to this mess in the first place. Remember short term decisions cause long-term problems and this is not a long-term solution to the health of this fishery. It might be the best option for 2024 and 2025 on the table but it misses the mark of managing the stock once again by a mile. EVERY AGE CLASS IN THE FISHERY HAS DECLINED IN THE GENDER PROPORTION OF FEMALES TO MALES DUE TO THE ONGOING TARGET OF HARVESTING LARGER FISH WHICH ARE PREDOMINANTLY (OVER 90%) FEMALES. Until that changes, how does recruitment ever rebound to sustain and grow the stock?

[reason162]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

EVERY AGE CLASS IN THE FISHERY HAS DECLINED IN THE GENDER PROPORTION OF FEMALES TO MALES DUE TO THE ONGOING TARGET OF HARVESTING LARGER FISH WHICH ARE PREDOMINANTLY (OVER 90%) FEMALES.

Whatever happened to that Rutgers sex ratio study - did it pass peer review?

If not...why are we talking about keeping smaller fish as if it's settled science?

[Broad Bill]

The stock assessments for this fishery have all the peer reviewed data you need regarding how the gender composition of the stock has drastically changed over the years at the detriment of females commensurate with changes to increases in size minimums over the last two decades. My above comments aren't based on Rutgers Study, they're based on data from science contained in SAW's.

Common sense would also tell you in any fishery, especially one with a significant commercial presence, if you target exclusively the spawning stock you won't have a fishery for long. That and the fact that the only time this fishery grew in the last 5 decades is when both sectors were harvesting younger age classes and not targeting exclusively older sexually mature age classes made up disproportionately of females. Something current management might want to consider. What fisheries can you speak of which exclusively target breeders, don't protect the spawn, kill millions of juveniles in the process every year which you'd consider sustainable. If you put as much effort and energy into educating yourself with the data that exists as you do into criticizing those who do, one day we might actually be able to have a productive discussion. Until then, keep advocating for peer review as if it's the holy grail of fisheries management since it's done absolute wonders for this fishery over the last 40 years and other stocks which have been wiped out and why we're faced with the strong possibility of a two fish limit in New Jersey next year and a 28% or greater quota cut.

[Togfather2530]

Why are we even talking about all this nonsense. The fluke fishing sucks in nj. It’s been getting worse every year for 10 years. Just close the whole fishery down for a year or two commercial and recreational and we will have a great fishery again. I’m sure we will all survive. It’s not a big deal lmao. Then open it back up and let me keep a 16 inch fish. So stupid that people that are educated are so slow at figuring things out.

[Togfather2530]

Imagine if no one kept a fish for a year or two. 🤣🤣🤣. Humans will be their own demise

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

Why are we even talking about all this nonsense. The fluke fishing sucks in nj. It’s been getting worse every year for 10 years. Just close the whole fishery down for a year or two commercial and recreational and we will have a great fishery again. I’m sure we will all survive. It’s not a big deal lmao. Then open it back up and let me keep a 16 inch fish. So stupid that people that are educated are so slow at figuring things out.

More than likely because not everyone has that sentiment .
Some of us have enjoyed very good fluke fishing .
Hardest part was throwing back 20” fish looking for slots .

.

[Togfather2530]

Yeah, we all caught a 20 inch fish. I’ve caught plenty. I think the general consensus that most accept and that I hear from other fishermen is that the fluke fishing is in the toilet. Also, if the fisherman really cared about the fishery, they would not even consider keeping a 20 inch fish. After all, all you hear from them is “they’re making us keep the breeding females”. You basically proved my point with that comment. Most fisherman really don’t do what’s right when you come down to it unless they’re forced to throw back a fish over 18” say.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Togfather2530

Yeah, we all caught a 20 inch fish. I’ve caught plenty. I think the general consensus that most accept and that I hear from other fishermen is that the fluke fishing is in the toilet. Also, if the fisherman really cared about the fishery, they would not even consider keeping a 20 inch fish. After all, all you hear from them is “they’re making us keep the breeding females”. You basically proved my point with that comment. Most fisherman really don’t do what’s right when you come down to it unless they’re forced to throw back a fish over 18” say.

2 ways to look at it . If the biggest body of fish is less than 18” . Leaving fish go until they are 20” leaves all of those fish spawn another 2 years .
, though I would think larger fish will carry more quality eggs .

Point is there are guys who aren’t catching fish who want to preach gloom and doom . Instead of going to places not producing . Go look for areas holding bait and you will find the fish .
I know way more guys who had great seasons than those who didn’t .
But it’s pretty solid that 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish .

We don’t catch a few 20” fish we pound fish . But I have no issue burning gas to find them .

Friends I have that are limited to small tin boats , absolutely crushed fish in skinny water last year .
.

Manasquan , Shrewsbury , Shark , and navasink were loaded with fish.

.

[frugalfisherman]

[QUOTE=Togfather2530; I think the general consensus that most accept and that I hear from other fishermen is that the fluke fishing is in the toilet.[/QUOTE]

Huh?

[Gremlin2009]

No matter what the commercial guys always win. The recreation angler gets screwed over. In my opinion who ever has the money has the power. Basically what im saying is " Money talks " . Out of respect i will not say the rest