Immediate Action Needed Marine Fisheries Reform

[tjd24]

Done.

[baseballman]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Tom I can understand your frustrations and you are absolutely correct, the system is broken and its been broken for a while.

Should we be concerned that the Recreational Reform is just another way to perfume the pig for the sake of change and nothing will change? Absolutely and Adam expressed the same concern which is why he and the RFA want others and the public to get involved to support option B and not C, D or E because they are not fully baked. There's a lot of uncertainty in them that when the details do get filled, we very well could be back close to where we were in the past.


As far as Stock Status, I think we are both correct, they do figure into setting quotas as you mentioned, but are not a factor when setting measures as I tried to say.

Lastly, I think in the end we're both looking to do the same thing, change the way the fisheries are managed. You can continue down your path and do what you believe is best and I won't question it because it's one path . I'll continue to go down my path and would appreciate you not dissuading people from taking it. We're both trying to get to the same place, just taking different paths.

All valid points from the OP and your response Gerry. That said, I think the "you take your path and I'll do my own thing" response - which you may not even realize - is one of the major issues the rec fishing industry faces.

The "business" of recreational fishing has depth and is multi-faceted...bait & tackle shops, charters and party boats, tackle and apparel manufacturers, recreation fisherman like us posters...but overall, it is incredibly disorganized! This is where the commercial fisherman do circles around us and will always have better representation and lobbying.

Regretfully there is little interest in uniting and finding common ground to bolster the recreational fishery. Lots are trying, but very few are able to put their egos or differences aside.

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Lastly, I think in the end we're both looking to do the same thing, change the way the fisheries are managed. You can continue down your path and do what you believe is best and I won't question it because it's one path . I'll continue to go down my path and would appreciate you not dissuading people from taking it. We're both trying to get to the same place, just taking different paths.

Gerry I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from which path they choose, I'm trying to share facts to avoid people from making decisions with inaccurate or incomplete information and being disappointed later they may have made the wrong choice. Completely different scenario.

ASA had a chance three years ago to step up and turned their back on this fishery as did others. Think it's important for people to know who they're dealing with, what they're contributions have been and what to expect. That's full disclosure, not dissuasion.

Again I personally think it's important to understand how RRI will address one issue causing the summer flounder stock to decline substantially over the last decade. Either the data is wrong or the stock is in trouble as I've said all along. And I'm sorry if I don't believe marine fisheries when Mark Terceiro says miraculously recruitment corrected itself after 25 years of data show it flatlined and will continue to do so because we're harvesting the breeding stock of the fishery.

Striped bass regulations changed because we targeted the large breeders and as expected recruitment crashed. Black sea bass regulations are changing because even though the biomass is strong, recruitment is trending in the wrong direction. Why then can't or won't management address the regulations in the summer flounder fishery with well below average recruitment classes since 2011 clearly caused by regulations mandating the harvest of older age classes killing the breeding stock. How will RRI change that, by creating a separate sector for the for hire and party boat fleet or determining quotas every three years as opposed to every year? Those changes, if the fabric of this bill, will have no impact whatsoever on the management or health of stocks which is what ultimately drives quotas and regulations. Can we at least agree on that?

Originally Posted by baseballman

All valid points from the OP and your response Gerry. That said, I think the "you take your path and I'll do my own thing" response - which you may not even realize - is one of the major issues the rec fishing industry faces.

The "business" of recreational fishing has depth and is multi-faceted...bait & tackle shops, charters and party boats, tackle and apparel manufacturers, recreation fisherman like us posters...but overall, it is incredibly disorganized! This is where the commercial fisherman do circles around us and will always have better representation and lobbying.

Regretfully there is little interest in uniting and finding common ground to bolster the recreational fishery. Lots are trying, but very few are able to put their egos or differences aside.

I'm not going to mention organizations or names because I don't want the post deleted or thread locked. If all the individuals and organizations mentioned have used strategies or assisted in the adoption of legislation so effective over the past twenty years, why are so many fisheries in the condition they're in and why have access and harvest rights for the recreational sector been stolen away seemingly ever year over that same timeframe.

People are entitled to their opinions. Personally I think bills like RRI, the Modern Fishing Act, MSA Reauthorization are reshuffling the deck when the deck needs to be thrown out and replaced and we'll leave it at that.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by baseballman

Regretfully there is little interest in uniting and finding common ground to bolster the recreational fishery. Lots are trying, but very few are able to put their egos or differences aside.

Can't argue that point, I will however say we must keep on trying at all levels and when opportunities present themselves, within federal fisheries management or anywhere else for that matter, we need to get behind them...

There are 2 ways to affect change. You get involved politically to force tops down change and with the federal fisheries management at a process and staff level to affect bottoms up change. The RFA and the ASA work closely together locally and federally in both areas. Sadly neither organization gets the attention they deserve due in part to apathy and the sense that nothing will change so people don't get involved.

This is not directed at you, it's directed at the people who have thrown in the towel and given up the fight. To me it's pretty simple..... Lead, follow or get out of the way!

There are people I talk to on weekly basis, many of which are volunteers that care deeply.... When they say they need help, the least we can do is help them. They're people just like you and me and need all the public support and encouragement that a simple gesture like signing a petition or sending a public comment or commenting on a post that says "done". This puts some wind in their sales serves to let the powers to be know that we are behind them.... So why not do that?

[HDMarc]

Done, thanks Gerry for keeping us all advised of what's going on

[dales529]

To be honest here I personally am sick and tired of all the BS between recreational fishermen and including the for hire Industry. I have spent 14 years volunteering my time for fundraising $$ for SSFFF, RFA , Marches on Washington , Lobbyists state and Federal, Fishing access etc etc.

Gerry is right, be part of the problem or part of the solution or get out of the way!

Until Recreational Fishermen can agree to solidarity and unite on even just one cause I know what I have learned is nothing will change.

Take the shot when it presents itself like this, be counted as a united mass group in unity, go for a small win in this case some change, get that and then add to it. But instead fight amongst ourselves and the process always wins as we have zero threat so zero say.

Commercial is a well unified group , well funded and probably laugh at our disparity.

I am as close to done as I have ever been and not for a lack of fight but a lack of support

Originally Posted by dales529

To be honest here I personally am sick and tired of all the BS between recreational fishermen and including the for hire Industry. I have spent 14 years volunteering my time for fundraising $$ for SSFFF, RFA , Marches on Washington , Lobbyists state and Federal, Fishing access etc etc.

Gerry is right, be part of the problem or part of the solution or get out of the way!

Until Recreational Fishermen can agree to solidarity and unite on even just one cause I know what I have learned is nothing will change.

Take the shot when it presents itself like this, be counted as a united mass group in unity, go for a small win in this case some change, get that and then add to it. But instead fight amongst ourselves and the process always wins as we have zero threat so zero say.

Commercial is a well unified group , well funded and probably laugh at our disparity.

I am as close to done as I have ever been and not for a lack of fight but a lack of support

Dave I couldn't agree more and when certain people on this site and the organizations they represent complain about unity and solidarity among the commercial sector, they need to take a very close look in the mirror regarding their own actions over the years. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones as they say.

You my friend have been steadfast in your commitment and beliefs regarding fisheries management and conservation. Others are supportive as long as it supports personal agendas and translates into some type of personal benefit to them or the organizations they represent.

Commercial sector doesn't have those concerns since all oars are rowing in the same direction, largest share they can get of fishery resources and maximize catch values. That's it. No politics and no bullshit. Why does anyone think they sue Marine Fisheries as often as they do?

Here's the link to the articles by Mark Terceiro, one of the Lead Scientists at Woods Whole for Northeast Marine Science Center, titled "The Summer Flounder Chronicles, Science, Politics and Litigation, 1975 - 2000. It's not light reading but will give an idea of how the commercial sector uses the courts to combat Federal regulations when the recreational sector for the most part does not.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...tion_1975-2000

[Gerry Zagorski]

Tom - I'm a pretty patient guy trying to do what I can to help things along. I know you fought hard and put a lot of work and passion into our Fluke Fishery which I totally appreciate and give you the latitude to do here but you seem to want to undermine me and the groups I support at every turn.

Feel free to fight your fight and choose your battles but I don't have the energy and patience any longer to answer and debate every post I start and you respond to.

I leave the posts you start alone and as far as I'm concerned, we're on the same team but have a different path/perspective on how to accomplish it. You need to extend the same courtesy to me...

This is not about who is right and who is wrong, at this point it's about getting along. Your passion and mine, along with my personal sanity trying to keep up with you are on a collision coarse and that needs to stop.

You might have the energy but I don't. Are you picking up what I'm laying down here or should we just part our separate ways?

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Tom - I'm a pretty patient guy trying to do what I can to help things along. I know you fought hard and put a lot of work and passion into our Fluke Fishery which I totally appreciate and give you the latitude to do here but you seem to want to undermine me and the groups I support at every turn.

Feel free to fight your fight and choose your battles but I don't have the energy and patience any longer to answer and debate every post I start and you respond to.

I leave the posts you start alone and as far as I'm concerned, we're on the same team but have a different path/perspective on how to accomplish it. You need to extend the same courtesy to me...

This is not about who is right and who is wrong, at this point it's about getting along. Your passion and mine, along with my personal sanity trying to keep up with you are on a collision coarse and that needs to stop.

You might have the energy but I don't. Are you picking up what I'm laying down here or should we just part our separate ways?

Gerry I think our philosophies and more so our tactics have changed over the years. I delivered on a silver platter the answers to the summer flounder fisheries struggles to organizations you associate with and they not only turned a blind eye on it but in certain cases trashed it because it conflicted with their politics. That combination will never improve fisheries management. Every post I've made on this site regarding fisheries management has always been supported with facts from marine fisheries. If I can't post those findings here than yes we should go our separate ways so please remove my login rights to the site.

That said, I appreciate all the years and wish you nothing but the best.