Striped Bass Slot

[Tuna Tales]

My take:

We can't even all agree here - you expect different organizations to also agree? We are fighting each other.

I understand people saying no to a paid NJ Saltwater license however I am hearing good feedback from Florida. Access to the outdoors. Free ramps.
I would pay $20.00 per year if it helps. Look at the cost to use the Atlantic Highlands ramp just for one launch. $27.00? Do the math.

The free NJ Saltwater Registry is not working. Most the people don't even sign up for it.

NJ currently loses the 10% Federal Excise Tax on tackle purchase etc. -- because we don't have a paid Saltwater License. We do get those monies from NJ Freshwater and Hunting license fees.

The problem is half of the people in NJ don't want to pay for a NJ Saltwater license. After 20 years - look at where we are now...we are left with crumbs. We need more people to agree.

I can't understand why the Chesapeake area would keep their Trophy Season open? Crazy shameful.

I urge everyone to watch the last 15 minutes of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZLwk0b_3Mk


Joe T.

[dales529]

Been staying quiet as this plays out but another classic example of rec fishermen beating up on each other with no results, Lots of good info and input all in the wrong places. Rec fishing groups with lobbying capability be damned.
Donate to a common cause be damned.
Government wins , commercial interest wins and recs keep on fighting each other. Same old story, same old song.

Bottom line science and peer review are important but throw that all out the window with MRIP in the mix as now none of it matters. Mortality and catch / landings for any species are at best a guess and none of the regulations based on biomass / recruitment etc are even in play once the "guess factors' are part of the math!

Thread a good read though!

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by Tuna Tales

My take:

We can't even all agree here - you expect different organizations to also agree? We are fighting each other.

I understand people saying no to a paid NJ Saltwater license however I am hearing good feedback from Florida. Access to the outdoors. Free ramps.
I would pay $20.00 per year if it helps. Look at the cost to use the Atlantic Highlands ramp just for one launch. $27.00? Do the math.

The free NJ Saltwater Registry is not working. Most the people don't even sign up for it.

NJ currently loses the 10% Federal Excise Tax on tackle purchase etc. -- because we don't have a paid Saltwater License. We do get those monies from NJ Freshwater and Hunting license fees.

The problem is half of the people in NJ don't want to pay for a NJ Saltwater license. After 20 years - look at where we are now...we are left with crumbs. We need more people to agree.

I can't understand why the Chesapeake area would keep their Trophy Season open? Crazy shameful.

I urge everyone to watch the last 15 minutes of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZLwk0b_3Mk


Joe T.

I don't disrespect Hammers passion, God knows we need more people like him. Reason, right or wrong, I seldom agree with his views or attitude toward many on the site and NMFS can do no wrong mentality. We've never met, he's probably a great guy I'm sure but philosophically our views couldn't be more different. I imagine he feels the same about me so we'll leave it at that.

TT I want to address your points.

My entire point for posting on this thread was for everyone to understand the issues surrounding excise tax funding, allocations and the impact salt water licenses have only after the topic was brought up. And in doing so, hopefully share those facts so we can each understand the upside benefits and downside risks. Personally I don't see that as bad intent.

The free NJ Saltwater Registry is not working. Most the people don't even sign up for it. I have no idea who does and doesn't sign up but the registry reflects 138,607 anglers for 2022.

I understand people saying no to a paid NJ Saltwater license however I am hearing good feedback from Florida. Access to the outdoors. Free ramps.
I would pay $20.00 per year if it helps. Look at the cost to use the Atlantic Highlands ramp just for one launch. $27.00? Do the math.

Before assuming NJ would benefit like Florida, consider the following. 60% of the allocation factor is based on licenses, both fresh and saltwater, and not just salt water licenses as stated in the thread. The other 40% is based on geographic size which a salt water license would have no impact on. In 2022, Florida issued 2.7 million licenses, both fresh and salt and New Jersey issued 138k, just fresh. That's why Florida received 3.56% of the allocation or $14.2 million in excise taxes and why NJ and 11 other smaller states received the minimum 1% or just shy of $4 million. From a relative point of view due to the minimum, NJ and the other 11 smaller states proportionately received significantly more in excise tax refunds compared to license sales than Florida but $10 million less in overall funding. $10 million less funding based on 2.5 million less licenses sold. A salt water license for the 138,000 in the registry added if NJ adopted a salt water license would HAVE ZERO IMPACT on what New Jersey receives. NONE, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO. To give perspective, the top ten states combined had over 15 million resident and non resident salt and fresh water fishing licenses issued in 2017. Now add the other 40 states and see where New Jersey's 138,000 licenses or 276,000 with the addition of a salt water license ranks.
Imagine what that number is today six years later. That's why New Jersey will never get more than the minimum 1%. In the above scenario, if $138,000 registrants were to require salt water licenses and every one signed up at $2, the ONLY benefit is $276k more in license fees will also go into the coffers of the state fishery agency to be used at their sole discretion within the limits of their charter which is not limited exclusively to salt water improvements.

Florida and every state got what they were entitled to, so did New Jersey. New Jersey did not as stated get nothing, they actually benefited from the 1% floor and proportionately got way more than larger states like Alaska, California, Texas, North Carolina, Montana, Florida, Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin relative to overall license sales. Those states with a 5% cap actually funded New Jersey's 1% minimum, not the other way around as was suggested.

NJ currently loses the 10% Federal Excise Tax on tackle purchase etc. -- because we don't have a paid Saltwater License. We do get those monies from NJ Freshwater and Hunting license fees.

Completely untrue misinformation. We didn't lose anything in Excise tax refunds, we actually received almost $4 million which is exactly what we were entitled to, if not more, because of the protection afforded smaller states with the 1% minimum written into the original legislation.

I can't understand why the Chesapeake area would keep their Trophy Season open? Crazy shameful.

My understanding is the Trophy Season allows anglers from 5/1 through 5/15 to keep one bass at a minimum of 35" in a specifically designated area of Chesapeake Bay. I'm in complete agreement, on the surface it appears to be politics and preferential treatment for someone and not conservation whatsoever. I guess all people and all states aren't created equal after all.

Amazing what someone can ascertain from just one google search

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by dales529

Been staying quiet as this plays out but another classic example of rec fishermen beating up on each other with no results, Lots of good info and input all in the wrong places. Rec fishing groups with lobbying capability be damned.
Donate to a common cause be damned.
Government wins , commercial interest wins and recs keep on fighting each other. Same old story, same old song.

Bottom line science and peer review are important but throw that all out the window with MRIP in the mix as now none of it matters. Mortality and catch / landings for any species are at best a guess and none of the regulations based on biomass / recruitment etc are even in play once the "guess factors' are part of the math!

Thread a good read though!

Dales, I couldn't agree with you more. Facts as written into MSA don't drive fishery management decisions. Political agendas and a narrative they want drive the facts. When you control the data you control everything even when the data suggest otherwise or is proven wrong.

[hammer4reel]

Here is a good read on actual things being done right now in Delaware with excise money .

I believe we have way more than the small amount of SW registered anglers in our state .
Even a tiny State like Delaware is seeing it’s benefits

If there are even just a half million saltwater anglers in Nj we would def reap better rewards than currently get
And it’s just our money coming back we already paid forward

I personally would not have an issue with a 25 dollar yearly license if it helped protect our fishing rights and gained us better access .

Nj has used moneys generated from tax coming back on freshwater license sales to buy access points on major rivers etc to keep those areas available to the public .



Here is Delaware artical

https://www.capegazette.com/article/...oney-go/256637

[Broad Bill]

So here's the question we should be asking. Delaware, like New Jersey, is one of the 12 states that gets the 1% excise minimum. Delaware has an $11 dollar general recreational fishing license which I believe allows license holders to fish both fresh and saltwater. NJ charges $22 plus trout stamps etc. Delaware has ~$1.5 million in license revenues and NJ has ~$3.2. Seems like New Jersey, without the added benefit of saltwater license fees, already generates almost $1.7 million more in fishing license revenue than Delaware and receives exactly the same amount in excise taxes from the fed.

If I understand your post, I don't see the problem in this case being federal excise taxes and license revenues generated as NJ collectively receives much more. The problem you're eluding to seems to be how these funds are being spent by the State Fishery Agencies as opposed to New Jersey's cut of the pie.

Would that be a fair assessment of your post?

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

So here's the question we should be asking. Delaware, like New Jersey, is one of the 12 states that gets the 1% excise minimum. Delaware has an $11 dollar general recreational fishing license which I believe allows license holders to fish both fresh and saltwater. NJ charges $22 plus trout stamps etc. Delaware has ~$1.5 million in license revenues and NJ has ~$3.2. Seems like New Jersey, without the added benefit of saltwater license fees, already generates almost $1.7 million more in fishing license revenue than Delaware and receives exactly the same amount in excise taxes from the fed.

If I understand your post, I don't see the problem in this case being federal excise taxes and license revenues generated as NJ collectively receives much more. The problem you're eluding to seems to be how these funds are being spent by the State Fishery Agencies as opposed to New Jersey's cut of the pie.

Would that be a fair assessment of your post?

No I believe our numbers would exceed delawares numbers and their sight gives more input how moneys can be spent


https://documents.dnrec.delaware.gov...llars%20go.pdf



https://dnrec.alpha.delaware.gov/fis...life/licenses/


There is more than just the 1 percent payment
Their is also a 3/1 payback vs the license fees etc

IMO Nj salt water anglers pay a considerable amount of excise tax that we should be chasing every cent that can be used for access to the fishery .

Nj won’t put more money into our access from the general fund
So why not force them to get moneys used for our best interests

[Broad Bill]

What 4/1 payback per license fee are you referring to?

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

What 4/1 payback per license fee are you referring to?

All states showing the excise input shows 3/1
And seem to explain the returns the same way .
Here is floridas break down
Delaware and Massachusetts’s show it the same way

https://myfwc.com/fishing/sport-fish.../?redirect=sfr

[Tuna Tales]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

I don't disrespect Hammers passion, God knows we need more people like him. Reason, right or wrong, I seldom agree with his views or attitude toward many on the site and NMFS can do no wrong mentality. We've never met, he's probably a great guy I'm sure but philosophically our views couldn't be more different. I imagine he feels the same about me so we'll leave it at that.

TT I want to address your points.

My entire point for posting on this thread was for everyone to understand the issues surrounding excise tax funding, allocations and the impact salt water licenses have only after the topic was brought up. And in doing so, hopefully share those facts so we can each understand the upside benefits and downside risks. Personally I don't see that as bad intent.

The free NJ Saltwater Registry is not working. Most the people don't even sign up for it. I have no idea who does and doesn't sign up but the registry reflects 138,607 anglers for 2022.

NJ has more than 138,607 saltwater anglers -- that is my point. Perhaps a paid saltwater license would help since I believe we close to one million saltwater anglers. Seems like many other states are happy with their paid saltwater license. See article link below from Dan. (Let me say yes here in NJ I can understand why many people would be skeptical - however why not try?)

I understand people saying no to a paid NJ Saltwater license however I am hearing good feedback from Florida. Access to the outdoors. Free ramps.
I would pay $20.00 per year if it helps. Look at the cost to use the Atlantic Highlands ramp just for one launch. $27.00? Do the math.

Before assuming NJ would benefit like Florida, consider the following. 60% of the allocation factor is based on licenses, both fresh and saltwater, and not just salt water licenses as stated in the thread. The other 40% is based on geographic size which a salt water license would have no impact on. In 2022, Florida issued 2.7 million licenses, both fresh and salt and New Jersey issued 138k, just fresh. That's why Florida received 3.56% of the allocation or $14.2 million in excise taxes and why NJ and 11 other smaller states received the minimum 1% or just shy of $4 million. From a relative point of view due to the minimum, NJ and the other 11 smaller states proportionately received significantly more in excise tax refunds compared to license sales than Florida but $10 million less in overall funding. $10 million less funding based on 2.5 million less licenses sold. A salt water license for the 138,000 in the registry added if NJ adopted a salt water license would HAVE ZERO IMPACT on what New Jersey receives. NONE, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO. To give perspective, the top ten states combined had over 15 million resident and non resident salt and fresh water fishing licenses issued in 2017. Now add the other 40 states and see where New Jersey's 138,000 licenses or 276,000 with the addition of a salt water license ranks.
Imagine what that number is today six years later. That's why New Jersey will never get more than the minimum 1%. In the above scenario, if $138,000 registrants were to require salt water licenses and every one signed up at $2, the ONLY benefit is $276k more in license fees will also go into the coffers of the state fishery agency to be used at their sole discretion within the limits of their charter which is not limited exclusively to salt water improvements.

Florida and every state got what they were entitled to, so did New Jersey. New Jersey did not as stated get nothing, they actually benefited from the 1% floor and proportionately got way more than larger states like Alaska, California, Texas, North Carolina, Montana, Florida, Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin relative to overall license sales. Those states with a 5% cap actually funded New Jersey's 1% minimum, not the other way around as was suggested.

NJ has more than 138,607 saltwater anglers. Where are you getting a $2.00 saltwater license fee from? Again, the FREE NJ Saltwater Registry is not working. We are going backwards.

NJ currently loses the 10% Federal Excise Tax on tackle purchase etc. -- because we don't have a paid Saltwater License. We do get those monies from NJ Freshwater and Hunting license fees.

Completely untrue misinformation. We didn't lose anything in Excise tax refunds, we actually received almost $4 million which is exactly what we were entitled to, if not more, because of the protection afforded smaller states with the 1% minimum written into the original legislation.


I can't understand why the Chesapeake area would keep their Trophy Season open? Crazy shameful.

My understanding is the Trophy Season allows anglers from 5/1 through 5/15 to keep one bass at a minimum of 35" in a specifically designated area of Chesapeake Bay. I'm in complete agreement, on the surface it appears to be politics and preferential treatment for someone and not conservation whatsoever. I guess all people and all states aren't created equal after all.

Amazing what someone can ascertain from just one google search

Yes - amazing what one Google search can yield: Eric and I discussed this topic at the 2022 Saltwater Show. Eric started the Mid-Atlantic edition of The Fisherman Magazine so I think he knows what he is talking about. https://www.capegazette.com/article/...oney-go/256637