Monster flatheadss!!!(8/22/16)

[JDTuna]

Originally Posted by Dave B.

Nice job on those big boys. You do realize you are required by law to kill those fish? It is illegal to release flatheads in NJ.

Technically that might be true but it is a pointless law that will not put a dent in the population. Those flatheads are in there for good. I doubt flatheads have any effect given the cohabitate countless water bodies throughout their native range with the species that are found in the Delaware (many of which are also not native). It's wasteful to just kill them.

[Eskimo]

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Originally Posted by Dave B.

Nice job on those big boys. You do realize you are required by law to kill those fish? It is illegal to release flatheads in NJ.

I believe this was a justifiable act of civil disobedience.

Japan has a similar law requiring all Largemouth Bass to be immediately killed. But Japanese anglers have grown quite fond of bass fishing and in an act of defiance rare in Japanese culture - they release their bass. Catch-and-release has been so successful in Japan that in 2009 a bass was caught there that tied for the world record.


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[liveitup1.75liter]

Damn dude biggest flattie I've seen I think!!!! Get outta here with that Dave b!!!!! This site and it's members ( I feel) has way more knowledge then the guys behind the desk!! I killed my first 2 and it was fkn pointless

[liveitup1.75liter]

Really really really wish u gotta measurement

[QUOTE=Dave B.;458898]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Eskimo-This is in NJ and not PA, right? /

Nice job on those big boys. You do realize you are required by law to kill those fish? It is illegal to release flatheads in NJ.

As mentioned in an earlier thread, NJ has it's head in the sand when it comes to flat head catfish. They're not only not going away, they're numbers are increasing exponentially. The following is a excerpt on egg production for flatheads:

Males select hollow logs, caves or areas beneath the banks for their nest sites. Males may even improve their selected sites by creating shallow depressions for the females to lay their eggs. Egg number varies greatly depending on female size, but the average is up to 100,000 eggs at a time. Scientists estimate that a female will lay 1200 eggs for every pound she weighs. A female flathead that weights 50 pounds might release 60,000 eggs at a time. After an incubation period of four to six days, the fry (very young fish) will school together at the nest for several days after hatching; afterwards they will seek shelter beneath rocks, roots and other cover and begin their independent lives. Average lifespan of the flathead catfish is 12 to 14 years, but one recorded flathead catfish lived 24 years.

Retaining a few of these fish which are targeted only by a very small fraternity of anglers won't change a thing and it's mindless thinking. Anyone who fishes for these fish realize how great a fishery this is and the trophy size these fish can attain is limited only by the size of the systems they live in. NJ will come around eventually, they'll have no choice. As I said in an earlier post, hope isn't a strategy and hoping flat heads go away isn't reality. The balance of habitat and food supply which exists in the Delaware and any other system you find these fish in will ultimately decide their fate and not draconian regulations made by a group of bureaucrats who have an ulterior agenda.

Congratulations again to NJFlyfisher and BB on their great catch! To answer the questions someone else asked about big fish caught, I heard of a fish caught believe it was last year around Belvidere in the 40 plus range. There's bigger fish in the river, no doubt about it.

[Delawareriver]

Now guys I can understand both sides. Yes flatheads are here to stay, nothing is gonna change that fact. But yes killing flatheads will slow them from increasing in population and size. No big deal either way, and they are very good eating. To be honest I let most go I catch but I do try to shoot every one I see while bowfishing. Enjoy the resource how ever you guys want but don't hammer on some one else that uses it in a different way

[mtman]

Very nice catching ! I respect Dave B and his knowledge of fisheries. But as far as killing a couple of fish to reduce an obviously vibrant and entrenched population, I think the cats already outta the bag. Pun intended.

[Dave B.]

Originally Posted by liveitup1.75liter

Damn dude biggest flattie I've seen I think!!!! Get outta here with that Dave b!!!!! This site and it's members ( I feel) has way more knowledge then the guys behind the desk!! I killed my first 2 and it was fkn pointless

Well first of all those 'guys behind the desk' as you put it actually spend extremely little time 'behind a desk'. These men and women are extremely intelligent knowledgeable scientists who spend about 70% of their time on the lakes, ponds, rivers and streams of NJ doing research, collecting data, tracking the populations and spawning success of countless fish species along with macro-invertebrates and crustaceans, and dealing with numerous water quality and other habitat issues. Of the remaining 30% of their time about 25% is spent in the lab testing fish and other samples for growth and health issues, contaminants, etc. with the remaining amount of their time spent 'behind a desk' as you put it, collating and documenting all of the data they've gathered through both their field and lab research. This they do to protect and where/when ever possible enhance OUR angling opportunities as well as to protect the waters and environments those species require to exist and survive.

By the way, these same people are the ones responsible for all the great angling opportunities you presently are able to enjoy in NJ. If you like fishing for LMB, SMB, channel cats, musky, walleye, northern pike, hybrid stripers, etc then you can thank those people 'behind the desk'. I can assure you the biologists at Freshwater Fisheries have far more knowledge regarding fisheries management than the combined total of knowledge on this or any other site.

As for your blatant disregard for the regs I could easily assume from this that you would also keep all the trout you could catch, keep undersized and over limit of any and all other species, basically you paint yourself as a potential poacher. The regs are developed for specific reasons, primarily to protect the resources we have which is the primary job of the biologists in conjunction with the F&G council. If you have an issue with any regulation you have the full recourse to take up the matter with council and the Div. The folks at F&W do listen to us. Many of the reg changes that occur are the direct result of angler/hunter input which is followed by research to determine if any proposed change is viable, practical, and will not negatively impact the species in question or the overall habitat/environment.

[JDTuna]

Originally Posted by Dave B.

By the way, these same people are the ones responsible for all the great angling opportunities you presently are able to enjoy in NJ. If you like fishing for LMB, SMB, channel cats, musky, walleye, northern pike, hybrid stripers, etc then you can thank those people 'behind the desk'. I can assure you the biologists at Freshwater Fisheries have far more knowledge regarding fisheries management than the combined total of knowledge on this or any other site.

It's funny you should mention this, because my prior career was in fisheries biology/management and I have an extensive educational background on the subject so some of us understand exactly what the job entails. You can come down off your high horse. Obviously, the biologists who work for freshwater fisheries are extremely knowledgeable about the subject. However, in the case of the invasive species regulation, it is a proverbial regulatory blanket used to cover any species deemed invasive. It is not based on SPECIFIC research regarding flathead catfish. What about wild rainbow and brown trout and carp? They are all invasive species as well. Do you advocate killing those species? And it is moot, especially in a large, interconnected river system. Once they get in there and reproduce, they aren't going anywhere. I'd challenge you to find a single instance in the US where an invasive species of fish was extirpated from a large body of water.
The good news is that, for the most part, invasives haven't caused the widespread damage that was feared (except perhaps Asian carp). In addition, flatheads coexist with virtually all of the same species found in the Delaware (most of which are not native) throughout the US. There is no evidence things will be different in the Delaware.

Originally Posted by Dave B.

your blatant disregard for the regs I could easily assume from this that you would also keep all the trout you could catch, keep undersized and over limit of any and all other species, basically you paint yourself as a potential poacher. The regs are developed for specific reasons, primarily to protect the resources we have which is the primary job of the biologists in conjunction with the F&G council. If you have an issue with any regulation you have the full recourse to take up the matter with council and the Div. The folks at F&W do listen to us. Many of the reg changes that occur are the direct result of angler/hunter input which is followed by research to determine if any proposed change is viable, practical, and will not negatively impact the species in question or the overall habitat/environment.

And that would be a completely ludicrous assumption, but we all know where assumptions get us. I would assume at some point in your life, you have exceeded the speed limit by at least 1mph. By your line of thinking, I should also assume you rob banks, launder money, etc.

Dave B I think I can speak for the majority of people when I say the efforts of F&G and all the biologists involved in keeping our water ways healthy and balanced is VERY much appreciated. Like so many others I'm sure it's not an easy job and there's an incredible effort put forth that is at times taken for granted. I would hope as you say "I can assure you the biologists at Freshwater Fisheries have far more knowledge regarding fisheries management than the combined total of knowledge on this or any other site.", is a true statement otherwise we'd have a much different problem on our hands! That being said, there are members of the site who are more knowledgeable about fisheries management than your comments give them credit for who are equally as concerned about the invasive status given flatheads and the mandate to retain and kill any caught as many others are.

I don't agree most people on this site turn their back on fishery regulations, in fact I believe just the opposite. I believe most of the people here are custodians of our resources and do their best to comply with regulations. The flat head issue is a bit of an anomaly. Without getting into details, I think people in general have a hard time killing a trophy fish simply because the regulations say so and more so because all of us know a few fish retained and killed will not change the composition of the bigger picture one bit. If it's deemed a serious matter by the powers to be, I think it's going to require a different solution other than a mandate to kill all fish caught which is as useless as the saying "Tits on a bull!"

If you work for the state or are a biologist for the state, I applaud and appreciate your efforts and I don't envy the challenge you or everyone else has in front of them trying to address the flathead issue. Controlling the spread of a fishery which is reproducing naturally and has sustainable food and habitat is not an easy or quite possibly doable task. Whatever the future holds in store it would appear the status quo isn't working nor do the current regulations represent the opinions of a good percentage of the angling community. I agree where we go from here should represent a joint effort of all parties involved.