The charter/party industry...

[Wien21]

Originally Posted by Blackfish Doug

Not everybody can afford the higher prices anymore. People are trying to get the most bang for their buck. I'm fishing 50% less because of the prices associated that goes into a day of fishing. Price cutting is going on everywhere restaurant coupons, internet discounts everybody is hurting in all industry's. If you can survive on less do it. I'm making 85% less then what I was making in the markets. I know I can no longer fish as much as I used to because of it. I just cherry pick my days now & save up for what I feel is a worth while day. Not everybody is as fortunate as others & only wish they could fish more but no longer can they swing it anymore. So if you see somebody fishing on that lowered priced boat there may be more of a reason behind it.

Absolutely agree with you Doug. But there is a difference between "cherry picking" fishing trips and settling for less. I am sure you agree it makes more sense to do two trips on a quality boat for $140 than 3 trips on a low cost $100 provider where you have to cross your fingers that the bait is fresh, the boat is anchored right, customer service, the captain is moving the vessel to the fish and fishing the right spots....etc etc.
BTW, thats the reason I barely do inshore partyboats anymore. Rather do one charter instead of two partyboat trips. That can be a week, a month or a year, doesnt matter.
There is a reason why "right" priced boats are priced the way they are....because there are no shortcuts, and thats the way we want it.
These boats dont have to worry about filling up quickly, as a matter of fact they are booked so far in advance I start wondering why they dont charge more.
The ones complaining and crying are the ones that overprice and under deliver. They have to cut prices till they fill up, and quite honestly, thats the pricecategory they belong in, considering demand(who goes on these boats) and supply(what they offer) or vice versa.
Easy as "the market", isn't it?

[jenny lee sportfishing]

vin,

i did not read all five pages, i'm sorry i just can't do it. i have operated jenny lee sportfishing for the last 13 years and consider my operation to be first class. however, i am a part time charter operation, meaning although we are available everyday of the season, we all augmnet our income working fulltime in other industries/business'. aside from the head boats there are only a few operations in which the employees/owner's are solefully dependent on their charter business, and my hat goes off to all of them.
i have owned and operated dave's heavy towing for the past 38 years and at one time i was one of the top operations in the state and perhaps the east coast, but competition and low pricie have changed all of that, as it has done to the for hire fishing business.
you see somehow, a guy comes into business with little or no expierience in operating a business and figures out that his competitors are gouging the public and he can do it much cheaper. after all 38 years, what could i possibly know about running a business, just like the bogans or raagula, or larosa families, what do they know. after decades in business, you should have some knowlegde of what it costs to operate, make some money, and of course pay your help well enough so they stick around and oh yea, improve or upgrade your equipment/ boats/ tackle/ etc.

when we started chartering i promised my self that i would operate jenny lee as i do dave's heavy towing, with the utmost in professionalism, and saftey, and not cut price or quality just to say" i'm a charter business"
this is not a knock on anyone who is chartering or thinking about it, by no means, it is america, but you are 100% correct their are far too many start up so called charter boats that are crapping up the stream for the few really true charter operations, and i'm not sure if it's ego or dollars or both.

please exuse me for the rant, but it's the truth. i'm the last man to judge anyone, i am a part time charter operation, however, i feel i maintain the highest quality of respect for the industry and my peers.

repsectfully
capt dave bender

[Treble Hook Jim]

I did not waste my time reading all the pages of responses but here is my 2 cents...when all things are equal, all prices can be equal. Not all boats are equal and either are captains or crew. I would gladly pay more to be on a boat that will get me to the grounds faster and has a crew that works hard. I was recently on a sponsor boat that was open for the day and the boat never went more than a couple miles from the marina, never burned any fuel or got the boat more that 8-10 knots and all we caught were short fluke and all the mate did was fish the entire time. Where as I fished the Mad Gaffer, and captain ray burns fuel, goes wherever necessary and will keep you out late, billy the mate busts his ass and as a result, I have since chartered his boat several times.bottow line, you are comparing apples and oranges... You are not going to pay the same price for Hyundai as you would a Lexus would you???

[Captain Rich]

I'm going to add another thought to this thread, I started around the same time as Dave Bender and respect his opinions and operation. I also run part time. As Vinny pointed out in the start of this thread, charter rates in this metropolitan area are lower than most other geographic areas. I fish out of Jupiter during the winter and the drift boats there get $75/head for a half day trip and run less than 5 miles. During the winter they are booked up solid and run two trips/day. Considering the distances we travel, charter rates here are a bargain. Our spring clamming trips up to Raritan Bay are 25 miles each way. When I talk to captains out of our area about our canyon trips with runs of 80 to 100 miles each way, they think we are nuts to charge as little as we do. The cost of fuel is what makes or breaks us in the charter industry.

[Taxman]

Some can run on reputation

New comers to market need pricing until they establish their reputation

Companies offer lower prices to build market share all of the time

[Harpoon]

But ultimately the consumer wins out with choices. We can choose the port, boat, crew that we want to fish with and someone that is in our price range. That keeps anglers interested and helps the industry as a whole cause we keep fishing. That also keeps sites like this in business since they are a place for advertisers. Now from a personal business perspective its gotta be a brutal industry to be in...especially if its your full time gig but ultimately that was your choice in the beginning of it all.

I would compare it too moving next to an airport that been in operation for 100 years and then asking said airport to lower the noise level after you move in. You knew from the beginning the fishing industry is tough and you have to be ready to weather all the changes no matter where they come from. I would say this happens in many different industries...not just the fishing industry.

[joeya78]

i know these guys have to make money to stay alive, but over a hundred bucks for a head boat would get a lot less people out there. Also i think for someone who is fishing once a week over a hundred bucks is just too high for some people to pay....especially to catch two flounder, maybe a couple of keeper fluke, maybe a bass or two? What if you had to take your three sobs.....400 bucks for those fish. I dont agree with you on this, i feel the fares are to high as it is. Theres a couple of months i fish 5 times a week on an charter or pb and it costs me well over 1000 bucks a week. Ridiculus, but i pay it because i love the sport. I feel pb fishing is the only boat fishing we have left thats reasonable, even having three boats myself if you take your own boats odds are its gonna be at least 200. Just my opinion, the volume is how these guiys have to make money, or buy a smaller boat that could go farther or get where the pb cant and charge more.

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by jenny lee sportfishing

vin,

i did not read all five pages, i'm sorry i just can't do it. i have operated jenny lee sportfishing for the last 13 years and consider my operation to be first class. however, i am a part time charter operation, meaning although we are available everyday of the season, we all augmnet our income working fulltime in other industries/business'. aside from the head boats there are only a few operations in which the employees/owner's are solefully dependent on their charter business, and my hat goes off to all of them.
i have owned and operated dave's heavy towing for the past 38 years and at one time i was one of the top operations in the state and perhaps the east coast, but competition and low pricie have changed all of that, as it has done to the for hire fishing business.
you see somehow, a guy comes into business with little or no expierience in operating a business and figures out that his competitors are gouging the public and he can do it much cheaper. after all 38 years, what could i possibly know about running a business, just like the bogans or raagula, or larosa families, what do they know. after decades in business, you should have some knowlegde of what it costs to operate, make some money, and of course pay your help well enough so they stick around and oh yea, improve or upgrade your equipment/ boats/ tackle/ etc.

when we started chartering i promised my self that i would operate jenny lee as i do dave's heavy towing, with the utmost in professionalism, and saftey, and not cut price or quality just to say" i'm a charter business"
this is not a knock on anyone who is chartering or thinking about it, by no means, it is america, but you are 100% correct their are far too many start up so called charter boats that are crapping up the stream for the few really true charter operations, and i'm not sure if it's ego or dollars or both.

please exuse me for the rant, but it's the truth. i'm the last man to judge anyone, i am a part time charter operation, however, i feel i maintain the highest quality of respect for the industry and my peers.

repsectfully
capt dave bender

Thank you dave, and i always forget that you own daves towing, i will keep you in mind next time i need a heavy up your way, i am also in the towing business, myself for 12 years and my father for 32! I appreciate your response and you are spot on, some times you have to sell yourself short to make ends meet at one time or another, but thats business sometimes.. You response is dead on and greatly appreciated!!

[joeya78]

Originally Posted by Captain Rich Adler

I'm going to add another thought to this thread, I started around the same time as Dave Bender and respect his opinions and operation. I also run part time. As Vinny pointed out in the start of this thread, charter rates in this metropolitan area are lower than most other geographic areas. I fish out of Jupiter during the winter and the drift boats there get $75/head for a half day trip and run less than 5 miles. During the winter they are booked up solid and run two trips/day. Considering the distances we travel, charter rates here are a bargain. Our spring clamming trips up to Raritan Bay are 25 miles each way. When I talk to captains out of our area about our canyon trips with runs of 80 to 100 miles each way, they think we are nuts to charge as little as we do. The cost of fuel is what makes or breaks us in the charter industry.

its a double ended sword, how about the boats that come out of port and are fishing within 1 mile of running?

[sportfishingusa]

Originally Posted by Treble Hook Jim

I did not waste my time reading all the pages of responses but here is my 2 cents...when all things are equal, all prices can be equal. Not all boats are equal and either are captains or crew. I would gladly pay more to be on a boat that will get me to the grounds faster and has a crew that works hard. I was recently on a sponsor boat that was open for the day and the boat never went more than a couple miles from the marina, never burned any fuel or got the boat more that 8-10 knots and all we caught were short fluke and all the mate did was fish the entire time. Where as I fished the Mad Gaffer, and captain ray burns fuel, goes wherever necessary and will keep you out late, billy the mate busts his ass and as a result, I have since chartered his boat several times.bottow line, you are comparing apples and oranges... You are not going to pay the same price for Hyundai as you would a Lexus would you???

I wouldn't buy a hyundai. hahaha kidding.. Your right in that aspect, but what i am trying to say, if that if your trying to get into the business, trying to get started, starting at the same rates as most boats in the area will put you in their market and allow you to make more money doing so. Market research has shown and proving countless times throughout the ages, that if you take the same product, be it a 5 dollar apple corer, and charge 10 instead of five, more people will buy at 10 because they think it is a better product yet it is the same crap 5 dollar product.


People can go on a cheaper boat, might get just as good if not better quality of fishing and service, but why not optimize your potential to earn and profit then ride the tide and hope to build your business. I am a cheap guy, not extremely frugal but cheap, but i know what i am willing to spend. I do not fish near as much, not because i dont want to, but i dont have the time and yes i admit, it is hard to continue to pay the 125 plus a head plus tip more then a few times a month, or my wife would really take my man hood away, i can only hide so much money. hahah