Fluke Season is Open

[Billfish715]

These are smaller than some of the river fish I've caught. They were for sale in a local market. Notice the price on the sign which also indicates the place of origin or capture. Size limits or no size limits, these are fish that any of us would have voluntarily released. They were (at best) 13"! You can't tell me that at the price per pound, the commercial guys are not making a living! It's no wonder why the commercial fishing lobby is so determined to hold on to its share of the fluke quota!

The commercial fishery will get its share of the quota no matter how many fish they catch to get them there. Imagine how many fish of this 12" size they will take to make their quota. Unfortunately, if they threw those fish back, the fish would die anyhow.

The biggest obstacle for us (the recreational fishermen) to overcome is the fact that our quotas are nebulous. They can never be accurately measured and can only be determined by a conceived formula. Whether we meet a prescribed quota or not can't be accurately measured; whereas the commercial quota can be gauged by the required recorded weights at each of the commercial fishing co ops.

So the argument goes on. The recreational fishermen have no process to legitimately record the total weight of their catch and therefore there is no way to accurately determine how many fish they caught. As a result, the scientists can only estimate how many fluke were taken. The fear is that if the recreational fishermen catch too many fish there will be fewer for the commercial guys to harvest and therefore there is a threat they will make less money.

It's a vicious circle. One last observation is that the fluke that were for sale in the picture at best might have weighed one pound. In order to "monger" one pound of fillets, several fish would have to be cut up to fill the bill. How is any of this "conservation"? Establishing a larger size limit on commercial fluke would ensure more small fluke would be spared while still maintaining the same poundage quota with a smaller amount of fish being harvested. Wouldn't that be conservation? Isn't it better to harvest fewer fish which are larger and weigh more in order to promote the growth of more and bigger fluke? Or, if the fisheries managers are intent on conservation. then decrease the commercial quota of fluke. The reduction in quota tonnage would allow fewer fish to be harvested and in that way it would increase the fluke population.

It makes sense to me but what do I know? I'm not a scientist.

[Blackfish Doug]

I know what your looking at but those fish were probably 14" those trays they are laying over are either 8" or 10" wide. I know this makes you angry when you see the size of those fish because there was a time when you could keep fish this size legally & people did. I'm not against fish being kept at that size as long as they don't go over their limit poundage. If they throw back that fish after it's being caught all it's going to do is die. This is a copy of what they can keep legally nowhere in do I see a size limit. But think about it for second during Jan & Feb they are only allowed 2500 lbs a day or 5000 lbs a week. If your lucky enough to reach your poundage if the weather lets you & that's if your lucky add it up. 5000lb week limit at a average of about $ 2.00 to $3.00 a pound don't forget that commercial guy is not getting $12.99 a pound. That fish passed through at least 2 vendors before it reach's the market & everybody is getting a profit. So the person gets anywhere from $10,000 to 15,000 if they reach their limit remember it's hard to reach that number try it once & you will know what I mean. Now divide that number by 7 because that's your weekly limit. It's not much money when you add up your costs gas ,insurance,dockage, crews expense plus repairs. Did you ever look at the people who do this for a living? they are far from living great I don't see them driving Mercedes or Bentley's. Imagine having no sick days or holidays off working with broken arms busted fingers they do it it's not a great life. Our enemy is not the commercial guy it's the government who rules on our quota's. If both the fisherman & commercial guy can only get together on this more can be done. There are more recreational fisherman then commercial fisherman by a long shot. This is the website do the math add it up & think about more about the profit because it's not as great as you think.
http://njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/201..._quota2015.pdf

[nmc02]

I love fluck

[Gerry Zagorski]

The commercials are allowed to fish all year right? Not sure when Fluke spawn but maybe they should be closed to fishing during that time?

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I'm certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

The commercials are allowed to fish all year right? Not sure when Fluke spawn but maybe they should be closed to fishing during that time?

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.

Fluke spawn off shore in the winter.Go to the Belford Co Op and you can see what they bring in. Hughe fluke that need to spawn.We can keep one weak fish but look in the co op and you will see monster breeders that came out of the pound nets.If they didn't keep the small fluke the by catch kill would be ridiculous. Although commercial fishermen are not our enemy ,they could care less about the recreational fishermen. Teaming up with the commercials and bringing this to the high courts will never work. Hammer is on the money saying ''catch shares'' will be the end of recreational fishing as we know it. I would hope all the discussions about this will help to educate some of the newer people getting into our sport.

[NoLimit]

Keep whistling past the graveyard. I am sick and tire hearing that its not the commercial fishing fault. There are no more flounder, the weaks are gone, whiting are gone, ling and fluke are disappearing too while everyone sits on their hands. Yes, stripers are much better than they used to be and thats what makes it so hard to understand why we cant do anything about fishing during the other 10 months of the year.

One or two more seasons of this and I am out of here along with the money I spend on slips, fuel, bait, tackle, meals and housing.

[Billfish715]

There is no doubt that there are many large fish which are discarded by the commercials draggers once their quota is filled. There is video of large fluke being thrown back, dead, by a commercial dragger once his quota was filled. Small fish become large fish eventually, except for the males. Whether a commercial fisherman or a recreational fisherman harvests those fish should not make a difference. In my opinion, charter boats are in the commercial business too. This has been argued before. Charter captains should be able to get their fair share of the pot for their customers as well. How do you explain to fishermen who only want to have fun and take home some fish, that they have to throw practically everything back even though they paid more money to fish than they would spend in a supermarket for a fish dinner? When and "if" there is a decline in the fluke population, then, perhaps, regulations like we have now, should be imposed. Right now, leave it alone. If we drop the size limits it would mean we would be catching more of the male fish which would seem to be to your point about taking the pressure off the reproductive larger females. Fishing for smaller males along the beaches takes pressure off the larger females in the deeper, sticky places. If you are looking for bigger fish then go there. If not, leave them alone and fish for the table, inshore where we have always fished for them.

Also raising the commercials size limits could be a double edge sword.

Based on the science (which oh by the way is being party funded by the SSFFF) practically every Fluke over 18 inches is a female. I don't think we want their quota filled with female breeder fish. I'd much rather see them keep smaller fish.

Lastly, if you increase their size limit what happens to the smaller by catch fish? It makes no sense for them to be discarded, shouldn't they be kept and couunt towards their quota?

I'm certainly no expert here and would be interested to hear others opinions.[/QUOTE]

[hammer4reel]

commercial guys average 3.50 per pound.
they get 4.50 a pound for the fish that are over 5 pounds.

funny how we recs want to complain about having to kep all the larger fish which are females.
yet when the commercial guys quoata is most made up of male fish we still complain.

as Doug said , its more about us working together to create a stronger resource.


At the current trend the government is looking to get paid for every fish in the ocean, if its catch shares program ever gets through.
that will be the end of everything as we know it

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Blackfish Doug

I know what your looking at but those fish were probably 14" those trays they are laying over are either 8" or 10" wide. I know this makes you angry when you see the size of those fish because there was a time when you could keep fish this size legally & people did. I'm not against fish being kept at that size as long as they don't go over their limit poundage. If they throw back that fish after it's being caught all it's going to do is die. This is a copy of what they can keep legally nowhere in do I see a size limit. But think about it for second during Jan & Feb they are only allowed 2500 lbs a day or 5000 lbs a week. If your lucky enough to reach your poundage if the weather lets you & that's if your lucky add it up. 5000lb week limit at a average of about $ 2.00 to $3.00 a pound don't forget that commercial guy is not getting $12.99 a pound. That fish passed through at least 2 vendors before it reach's the market & everybody is getting a profit. So the person gets anywhere from $10,000 to 15,000 if they reach their limit remember it's hard to reach that number try it once & you will know what I mean. Now divide that number by 7 because that's your weekly limit. It's not much money when you add up your costs gas ,insurance,dockage, crews expense plus repairs. Did you ever look at the people who do this for a living? they are far from living great I don't see them driving Mercedes or Bentley's. Imagine having no sick days or holidays off working with broken arms busted fingers they do it it's not a great life. Our enemy is not the commercial guy it's the government who rules on our quota's. If both the fisherman & commercial guy can only get together on this more can be done. There are more recreational fisherman then commercial fisherman by a long shot. This is the website do the math add it up & think about more about the profit because it's not as great as you think.
http://njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/201..._quota2015.pdf

With all due respect.. If there's no or little money, than get out,, Very simple.. Hell, I drove a damn school bus and most of the drivers I work with are over 30 k a year, and a few are in the 50-60 K range.. If these poor souls that fish commercially are driving rusted out junk, living in shacks, and have no health insurance, get the hell out, and do something else.. We'll put them to work up here starting at $15 an hour, top benefits, pension, and TONS of time off.. Must be similar work in NJ, another big union state... Personally I don't buy the "poverty wages" shtick... If things are that bad and these guys are not eating well, can't afford a doctor, can't pay for gas and slip, they need to GET OUT and leave the fish in the ocean... Sorry, money, BIG money is being made, or there would be no commercial fishing glut as we have today.... bob

[Blackfish Doug]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

With all due respect.. If there's no or little money, than get out,, Very simple.. Hell, I drove a damn school bus and most of the drivers I work with are over 30 k a year, and a few are in the 50-60 K range.. If these poor souls that fish commercially are driving rusted out junk, living in shacks, and have no health insurance, get the hell out, and do something else.. We'll put them to work up here starting at $15 an hour, top benefits, pension, and TONS of time off.. Must be similar work in NJ, another big union state... Personally I don't buy the "poverty wages" shtick... If things are that bad and these guys are not eating well, can't afford a doctor, can't pay for gas and slip, they need to GET OUT and leave the fish in the ocean... Sorry, money, BIG money is being made, or there would be no commercial fishing glut as we have today.... bob

Sorry Bob your not going to get any sympathy from me I know what it's like I lived it. As far as that $15 an hour that's a big BS I lost my job 10 years ago. I have a great resume & in the last 10 years I couldn't come close to making those $15 an hour wages that you claim are out there. I have no medical insurance & thank god my wife does & 60% comes out of her pay. I have not taken a vacation in over 10 years because time off is no pay. How about using Christmas,New Years Day & Easter as days you got to make up there are no paid holidays at my job. You see there are no jobs out there tons of time off as you claim. I know if there was work out there giving you $15,top benefits, & tons of time off sign me up I will be there tomorrow. Ask anybody who graduates from college & ask them if they wouldn't take that. I don't know where you got that from but it's not from this state & that's for sure. You obviously don't know anybody in the business & overate the job market in a big way. And by the way I did give quite a few School bus company's my resume as well & I never heard the phone ring once. I live a drug free life & have a good driving record as well. Right now I'm too old to do this type of work but when I first lost my job I would have taken that position in a heart beat. Right now I'm happy just to have a job & I'm glad that I had somebody out there that was willing to hire me. Thank god it was not in the commercial fishing industry but the benefits are the same. I would love to see you work a commercial boat for 2 weeks & see what it's like . The grass is not always greener on the other side.