Flukin' 2013 Post-mortem: good, bad or indifferent ?

[hartattack]

How was your 2013 Flukin' season

Mine was real good - mostly because I was able to get out more often than usual Early season up in Raritan Bay (triangle) was good but ended early when water got too hot, our annual NJFishing/RFA trip there yielded our usual lame results . Mid-season was good around structure - Sandy Hook reef, rattlesnake, etc., I got more 5+ pound fish than usual. Coming "in the money" @ Pt.Pleasant Elks with Team Blind Squirrels was memorable, and I look fwd to us doing even better in 2014. LAte season was a bit disappointing - the usual September rains and wind never really hurt us and I thought we'd see more prolonged action as the Fluke stage for their exodus. Overall I grade it better than usual. What say you ?

[Perfesser]

Average: Better keeper ratio on Belmar boats than AH boats: Seems the bigger fish don't stick around that Highlands too long.

[HDMarc]

I thought it was a really good season as well. I was also able to get out more this year than years past which was cool . I haven't managed to catch a 10+ pounder yet, but the majority of the fish I've caught were in the 3 to 5 pound range with a couple between 6 and 7. Caught a ton of shorts, most which were right at the 17.25" mark that will be keepers next year...would somebody wake me up on November 16

[jmurr711]

I went once caught 40 & had a double limit up to 6lbs, that was enough for me went ling fishing all my other trips

[Denlon]

Originally Posted by HDMarc

....... Caught a ton of shorts, most which were right at the 17.25" mark that will be keepers next year............

It seems to be the same story every year. You can catch tons of fluke which are just shy of the size limit. You throw them back and you think that they will be keepers next year.

However, remember that the commercial guys have a winter season where they fish about 16 miles out on the off-shore lumps. So most of the shorts you released are not around when the spring recreational season opens.

In addition, while you can only take a 17.5 inch fish, I believe the draggers can still legally take 14 inch fish.
So all those shorts you have been throwing back all summer you can go purchase legally in the fish market.

Denny

[dales529]

Originally Posted by Denlon

It seems to be the same story every year. You can catch tons of fluke which are just shy of the size limit. You throw them back and you think that they will be keepers next year.

However, remember that the commercial guys have a winter season where they fish about 16 miles out on the off-shore lumps. So most of the shorts you released are not around when the spring recreational season opens.

In addition, while you can only take a 17.5 inch fish, I believe the draggers can still legally take 14 inch fish.
So all those shorts you have been throwing back all summer you can go purchase legally in the fish market.

Denny

Not exactly the same for each individual as you can see from most of the responses that this year was more about "quality / meaning size" than quantity meaning shorts. We fight this battle every year about commercial vs recreational when the battle is really about QUOTA. Rec Quota Vs Commercial Quota. Whether or not Commercial gets to keep 14" doesn't really matter as they still have quota regulations so pounds equal pounds. If you want to discuss the point its what should the rec quota be vs the commercial Quota. I personally (and its strictly my opinion) don't feel that commercial keeping 14" fish ruins the amount of keepers rec fishermen get and trust me I suck at Fluking. I do believe the stock is sound and that overfishing is NOT occurring BUT:

Our friends in fisheries management recently felt the need although 2013 and 2014 Quotas were set to try and reduce us Recs for 2014 (again the quotas were set for 2 years) . Capt Adam (RFA-NJ) went to Baltimore meeting and helped potentially convince them instead of a 1.4 million pound reduction to a 250 thousand pound reduction. Thanks again Adam for your hard work.

I voted average on the season because of bad weather/ water temps in May /June. yet July and August produced some quality fish but you didn't see a huge amount of BOAT limits or even boats on the water. This was for many reasons such as Sandy, and loss of boats , Economy, bad weather etc = less boats fishing. Also Sandy changed the bottom structure and fish patterns so the average boat owner found his spots barren compared to the everyday charter guys and more experienced private boaters with their knowledge did better.

In conclusion it was an average year with some real quality fish taken but no where near where more regulation needs influence. Support RFA-NJ and /or your group of choice to keep fishing!!!
PS: Nice post Larry

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by dales529

Not exactly the same for each individual as you can see from most of the responses that this year was more about "quality / meaning size" than quantity meaning shorts. We fight this battle every year about commercial vs recreational when the battle is really about QUOTA. Rec Quota Vs Commercial Quota. Whether or not Commercial gets to keep 14" doesn't really matter as they still have quota regulations so pounds equal pounds. If you want to discuss the point its what should the rec quota be vs the commercial Quota. I personally (and its strictly my opinion) don't feel that commercial keeping 14" fish ruins the amount of keepers rec fishermen get and trust me I suck at Fluking. I do believe the stock is sound and that overfishing is NOT occurring BUT:

Our friends in fisheries management recently felt the need although 2013 and 2014 Quotas were set to try and reduce us Recs for 2014 (again the quotas were set for 2 years) . Capt Adam (RFA-NJ) went to Baltimore meeting and helped potentially convince them instead of a 1.4 million pound reduction to a 250 thousand pound reduction. Thanks again Adam for your hard work.

I voted average on the season because of bad weather/ water temps in May /June. yet July and August produced some quality fish but you didn't see a huge amount of BOAT limits or even boats on the water. This was for many reasons such as Sandy, and loss of boats , Economy, bad weather etc = less boats fishing. Also Sandy changed the bottom structure and fish patterns so the average boat owner found his spots barren compared to the everyday charter guys and more experienced private boaters with their knowledge did better.

In conclusion it was an average year with some real quality fish taken but no where near where more regulation needs influence. Support RFA-NJ and /or your group of choice to keep fishing!!!
PS: Nice post Larry

Dales - I'm in 100% agreement with you... Especially the part about you sucking at Fluking

All kidding aside, given our economy, the cost of fuel and all the boats and marinas that were damaged by Sandy, there were a lot less people fishing this year. If we fight to get as much quota as we can and keep the season open as long as possible, this will afford us more opportunities to fish and I believe that's what we all want. It will also help support the small businesses that rely on the REC Fluke fishery.

As for the RECs vs Commercial argument, I don't know the numbers, but I would assume we RECs contribute more revenue/taxes for our quota than the Commercials do. If this is the case, then from a pure economic standpoint, it stands to reason that we should be getting more of whatever quota gets assigned.

Although this argument might make complete sense to us, it likely has no bearing in fisheries management for 2 reasons....
1) The commercials have a more organized lobby then we RECs do and therefore have more influence
2) Fisheries Management does not care about the economic impact, they care about the stock and set quotas accordingly.

Thoughts??

[dales529]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Dales - I'm in 100% agreement with you... Especially the part about you sucking at Fluking

All kidding aside, given our economy, the cost of fuel and all the boats and marinas that were damaged by Sandy, there were a lot less people fishing this year. If we fight to get as much quota as we can and keep the season open as long as possible, this will afford us more opportunities to fish and I believe that's what we all want. It will also help support the small businesses that rely on the REC Fluke fishery.

As for the RECs vs Commercial argument, I don't know the numbers, but I would assume we RECs contribute more revenue/taxes for our quota than the Commercials do. If this is the case, then from a pure economic standpoint, it stands to reason that we should be getting more of whatever quota gets assigned.

Although this argument might make complete sense to us, it likely has no bearing in fisheries management for 2 reasons....
1) The commercials have a more organized lobby then we RECs do and therefore have more influence
2) Fisheries Management does not care about the economic impact, they care about the stock and set quotas accordingly.

Thoughts??

Gerry,
What I think I love most about this site is that no one including fearless leader misses an opportunity to jump on / bust or let someone off the hook LOL. Having friends is best

You as usual hit the nail on the head. they don't care about the rec economic numbers. Its politics and Lobby money wins which they (commercial) do better hands down.

To be perfectly honest I don't even know if Magnuson has an impact on commercial. Maybe Capt Adam or Capt TB could expand on that better and I will ask. All I Know is that with depleted fishermen, weather, Sandy, and an "average" year they wanted to cut us and we did better than expected.

[Denlon]

Originally Posted by dales529

..... We fight this battle every year about commercial vs recreational when the battle is really about QUOTA. Rec Quota Vs Commercial Quota. Whether or not Commercial gets to keep 14" doesn't really matter as they still have quota regulations so pounds equal pounds. If you want to discuss the point its what should the rec quota be vs the commercial Quota. I personally (and its strictly my opinion) don't feel that commercial keeping 14" fish ruins the amount of keepers rec fishermen get

Dale529-

NOT Really....Even though the commercial draggers have a quota, they probably kill many times more than their assigned quota. Once the net fills up with larger fish, the net openings are blocked so the smaller (under 14 inch size ) cannot escape. So they are dragged to death. When the net is finally lifted, these undersized commercial fish are simple dumped and are NOT COUNTED as part of the commercial quota which is brought to the dock.

So quota pounds are not equal to the total amount of fish killed.

The kill is actually much larger than their assigned quota.

In my opinion, the commercial guys should be made to count the weight of of killed/dumped fish as part of their allowed quota.

Denny

[dales529]

Originally Posted by Denlon

Dale529-

NOT Really....Even though the commercial draggers have a quota, they probably kill many times more than their assigned quota. Once the net fills up with larger fish, the net openings are blocked so the smaller (under 14 inch size ) cannot escape. So they are dragged to death. When the net is finally lifted, these undersized commercial fish are simple dumped and are NOT COUNTED as part of the commercial quota which is brought to the dock.

So quota pounds are not equal to the total amount of fish killed.

The kill is actually much larger than their assigned quota.

In my opinion, the commercial guys should be made to count the weight of of killed/dumped fish as part of their allowed quota.

Denny

No argument here but since its impossible to "count" dead fish and your original comment was about 14" fish for commercial and in stores and ours at 17.5" where would you draw the line? There is no perfect policy, no perfect mesh size, no perfect trawl technique or answer but better that 14" fish count on their Quota rather than not. Hell we (recs) cant even get good data or stand together on these regs which by the way the commercials guys do very well. Where and how would you like to Lobby for killed / dumped fish as part of their quota? You are cordially invited to our next RFA-NJ meeting if you wish.

I was only stating indirectly about the yearly fight that it is more about proving our fishery data as Recs than being bothered so much about others. We have enough work to do to keep our quota before we can even come close to worrying about theirs.

thanks for the response and well presented,