Flatbrook Survey

[Billfish715]

Stocked Trout Movement Study
in the Big Flat Brook / Flat Brook
Catch and Release Area
A two-year trout movement study in the Big Flat Brook Catch and
Release area was initiated in the spring of 2017 to help determine the
cause of a low number of stocked trout found during the summer
months despite heavy stocking, a no harvest regulation along with
adequate temperatures and habitat.
Biologists surgically implanted a tracking transmitter into the body
cavity of 80 trout. The transmitters allowed biologists to track individual stocked trout to determine if they were leaving the catch and release
area. It was revealed that predators play the biggest role in the limited
number of trout. Several transmitters were found among the boney
remnants of partially consumed trout, near dens or animal runs. A
couple of transmitters were tracked back to a great blue heron rookery.

These results are in the new Freshwater Fishing Digest. The results do not reflect all of the answers but do reinforce what many fishermen have known for a long time. The report says nothing about the fish that are consumed by the huge population of cororants that exists throughout the state. There are also active bald eagles and ospreys that feast on freshly stocked trout in many waterways.

So, to say that trout fishing in New Jersey is anything more than put and take would be misleading. The trout are put in and they stay around for awhile and then they are gone or are so spread out as to make it seem they are gone. The results of the survey and the comments and complaints that were made about the low number of trout being caught in the C&R area seem to indicate that. If the catch and release guys aren't catching enough fish, my opinion would be to let everyone try to catch what apparently is not there. Let them use artificials or bait since it doesn't seem to matter given that the trout aren't there anyhow.

There is a fisheries forum coming up this spring before the trout season and I'm sure the results and future plans for the Flatbrook Catch and Release Area will be discussed.

[thmyorke1]

found an article from May on this:
https://www.njherald.com/20180504/st...in-flat-brook#

Looks like they explain the numbers here more. Very intersting study!

[Billfish715]

A plausible explanation for the increase in predation rates, the 2017 report notes, "could simply be due to the time of year where more predators are spending more time hunting for trout because of the reproductive life cycles."

In other words: "There's hungry mouths at home that need to be fed."

But to reach that conclusion, the report said more study is needed on predation rates in other parts of the state.

The first year's results "answered many key questions on why the Flat Brook "catch and release" area is not holding trout to expected levels," Shramko wrote, "but it also unearthed, as studies often due, more questions about movement and predation rates in the Flat Brook system."

I enjoyed reading the article and think the research is worthwhile, however, I have some reservations about its purpose. Results seem to indicate there is quite a bit of natural predation. So, how will these results affect the Division's future decisions?

"More study is needed" & "expected levels" is administrative jargon to justify a need to continue to find justification to continue the survey and to continue to certify someone's "expectations" that the Flatbrook can sustain more trout stocking. Finding scientific data to support expectations is hardly a scientific approach. It seems there is a pre-conceived notion that the "Brook" can and will (and must) hold an increased trout population if more fish are stocked; and the Division will go to any length to prove its point.

I just think the council members need to re-evaluate the goals of the trout stocking program. They just should not cater to every special interest group that has economic and political support. Everyone pays the same license fees, yet those with political clout and the most vociferous voices get their way. If the state stocks more trout in the C&R stretches then someone, somewhere else is going to be receiving fewer trout. If the C&R stretches can not support a sizeable population of trout unless more and more fish are stocked, then what is the sense of having those designated areas just for the pleasure of a few special interest groups? New Jersey is not Wyoming. The Flatbrook and South Branch are not the Bighorn or Yellowstone.

How far we've come politically.........! We now refer to certain areas as Catch and Release. What ever happened to "No Kill"?

[RichS]

I would also say that the fish that have better survival instincts there concentrate in very snaggy blow downs making them very hard to catch. There’s a particular logjam that requires a perfect drift, but it’s loaded with fish.

[Lard Almighty]

I have always maintained that waters classified as trout production waters should NOT be stocked. Period. The stocked trout compete with the wild trout and keep their population numbers down. By not stocking the TP waters, the number of wild trout will increase due to the lack of competition, until the waterway reaches its carrying capacity for trout. Then the trout that are not placed in that waterway can be stocked at another location. The end result is more trout in NJ waters. Or more bird food, depending on how you look at it.

[Drossi]

One could draw the conclusion then that the c&r section of the BFB must have less than ideal holding water since the predation rate seems to be higher. Stockers concentrated into limited holding water are easy pickings for fisherman and predators alike.

[thmyorke1]

Imo any place C+r, especially a trout production water, shouldn't be stocked.

However I understand how these areas attract anglers therefore continued to get stocked. Can't complain about the state stocking fish where they are being put to use and being fished. I wouldnt say it's unfair too when it's public to anyone to fish; a spin fisher like me can still fish it.

I do think tho that the high predatory rates are connected to over-stocking.

[Billfish715]

Originally Posted by RichS

I would also say that the fish that have better survival instincts there concentrate in very snaggy blow downs making them very hard to catch. There’s a particular logjam that requires a perfect drift, but it’s loaded with fish.

The blow downs and logjams in the BFB really held the fall-stocked trout this year. It does not mean the stream will support a healthy population of them however, for so many reasons.

[Billfish715]

So, here is my confusion. Just what the heck is the goal and mission statement of the Division of Fish and Wildlife in regards to its trout stocking program? Do they want to stock trout so they can replenish the existing trout populations? Do the want to stock fish in every mud puddle and urban pond and silt filled, petroleum infused brook and stream so fishermen can catch them. Do they expect those places to sustain "holdover" trout? Do they want trout to naturally reproduce within the streams? Do they understand just how divided our trout fishermen are toward each other? We have elitists who disparage the lowly bait fishermen and visa versa. We have fishermen who dislike those who kill and eat their trout. We have fly guys who cringe at the sight of a spinning rod and visa versa. It's ridiculous! Stop the hating and imposing of your fishing preferences on others who don't share the same angling techniques.

Most of the wild trout streams have a population of trout that were stocked for many years in those streams and brooks. The wild brown trout are the offspring of those former stocked trout. They do naturally reproduce in some areas but don't reproduce naturally enough to support a fishery in the major water bodies. Why should the state consider a catch and release program in the trout production waters when after over a century of stocking trout, N.J. has no substantial population of wild trout in any of their major waters? It has always been a stock and take fishery. Our streams can not support enough trout for the N.J. fishermen unless there is continued and constant stocking. In many regards, the stocking of those mud puddles and silt-filled brooks is nothing different than the efforts to stock the major, more popular and highly regarded trout streams. Trout need to be stocked if trout are to be present. It's just that simple.

What else confuses me about the goals of the Division for its trout program is why there is so much effort to restore the brook trout in N.J. What is so special about having them make a limited comeback? Is it just me, or does it seem counter productive to remove wild brown trout from Rhinehart's Brook in Hacklebarney State Park just so the wild brook trout can make a comeback? Brown, Brook and Rainbow trout were stocked there for years and years. The brown trout became established and now the state wants them removed. Again, what is the goal? How important is this goal and why is it so important? This is another experiment which, as of yet, has not been adequately explained.

So, we have wild trout streams, trout production areas, no trout production areas, catch and release, catch and kill, artificials only, size limits, bag limits, bait, no bait, closed waters, no closed waters, two month creel limits, ten month creel limits, barbs, barbless, etc. etc. etc. Everyone with a hook in the game seems to be satiated. Does this sound like pandering? If this is an attempt to appease so many different interest groups, then the Division has no goal at all. We're back to what the biologists want or think or imagine and what the division wants, thinks and imagines. The back room discussions must be very interesting and I can see a degree of conflict between the scientists and the politicians.

One last absurd remark............If I could generate enough interest and subscribers who would like to use explosives to harvest trout or other fish, could I get a dedicated body of water in which to fish in a way that would make me feel good? If others can lobby for implementing fishing methods that suit them, can I do the same? I said that it was absurd, but is it?

[NJSquatch]

Is it pure economics? Would assume that the main goal of the trout stocking is to sell fishing licenses and trout stamps. I know a couple of guys that only fish opening day. Without that revenue we won't get all the other goodies that F&W stocks.

Originally Posted by Billfish715

So, we have wild trout streams, trout production areas, no trout production areas, catch and release, catch and kill, artificials only, size limits, bag limits, bait, no bait, closed waters, no closed waters, two month creel limits, ten month creel limits, barbs, barbless, etc. etc. etc.

I agree 110% that the trout rules are the definition of insanity. There is no clear map that shows the limits of all the various zones. The descriptions that are used are only good for seasoned treasure hunters. Pages 20-23 of the digest will make your head spin.

Originally Posted by Billfish715

Everyone with a hook in the game seems to be satiated. Does this sound like pandering? If this is an attempt to appease so many different interest groups, then the Division has no goal at all. We're back to what the biologists want or think or imagine and what the division wants, thinks and imagines. The back room discussions must be very interesting and I can see a degree of conflict between the scientists and the politicians.

No clearer case of pandering than allowing the Private Fishing Clubs Located on Publicly Stocked Waters To Fish During the Three-Week Pre-Season Closure! What makes these people so special? We all pay the same amount for the fishing license to fish publicly stocked waters.