Electo-fishing Ken Lockwood Gorge July 31:

[AndyS]

I got this from T.U.

NJ Fish and Wildlife is looking for volunteers to assist them with electro
fishing the Ken Lockwood Gorge.

When: Wednesday July 31st 9:00 am

Where: Parking lot – High Bridge side of the Ken Lockwood Gorge

I don't understand, if fishing for these trout in July will kill them but electro shocking is okay I think to look for Young of the Year it has to been done in the summer.

[saxmatt]

I did a lot of electrofishing when I worked for the DEP up in CT. During August we sampled a lot of streams and rivers and the trout always swam off fine. If you're pulling trout from deep cold water in a lake and releasing them into the warm surface water they can die of temperature shock, this is why people say you shouldn't fish for them in the summer. You don't have to worry about temperature shock in streams and rivers. If you're into trout fishing I would go help out. It's hard work but it's amazing seeing what's swimming around in our waters.

[surfrod]

There is no dangerous build up of lactic acid when you electro fish... Which is part of what kills fish when caught in warmer water temps.

This is a great opportunity to see things you never believed would be in the river... Did it one time on the toms in the tca, I'd highly recommend volunteering if one can.

[buzzbaiter]

You wanna know how many trout are in a stream(or bass in a lake)? Fish it! Sounds pretty easy to me and your not handling them unnecessarily. I never got the whole survey thing myself. Spend enough time fishing somewhere and you'll know what a place holds by what you catch(or don't catch). You can also look in the water and see spawning beds or young fish. Over in Pa, they actually clip the tips of the fins so that when they re-shock(second pass) the stream, they don't count those fin-clipped. Seems pretty harsh to me just for a routine survey. They do grow back but that's beside the point.

[acabtp]

Originally Posted by buzzbaiter

You wanna know how many trout are in a stream(or bass in a lake)? Fish it! Sounds pretty easy to me and your not handling them unnecessarily. I never got the whole survey thing myself. Spend enough time fishing somewhere and you'll know what a place holds by what you catch(or don't catch). You can also look in the water and see spawning beds or young fish. Over in Pa, they actually clip the tips of the fins so that when they re-shock(second pass) the stream, they don't count those fin-clipped. Seems pretty harsh to me just for a routine survey. They do grow back but that's beside the point.

• Fishing does not show you how many trout are in a stream, it shows you how many trout in that stream are hungry or angry enough to swipe at at your lure. Electrofishing shows you everything.
• Fishing depends on lure size. Fish a small fly and the big lunker might not bother to move, run a big lure and the little ones can't get it in their mouth. Electrofishing shows you everything.
• Fish spend a lot of time hiding in cover, and if they can't see the bait, you can't catch them. But electrofishing still can.
• Even when they are out in the open, fish are camouflaged and many times you can't see them until they move. Electrofishing brings these fish to the surface as well.
• Fish are awake and trying to escape while being caught. This is more damaging to their slime coat and causes a build up of lactic acid in their system that electrofishing does not. You can think of it as the fish that was angled having run a marathon to the point of complete exhaustion (the fight) before being released versus being tasered, measured while knocked out, and then released.
• Who exactly is supposed to "Spend enough time fishing somewhere and you'll know what a place holds by what you catch(or don't catch)" so we know what is in the KLG? A state employee that is paid to fish all day? We need to *know*, not *guess* how many and what kind of fish are in there for management purposes. Not having accurate data like this is what has caused the closure of river herring in NJ.
• "You can also look in the water and see spawning beds or young fish", you only are seeing a small portion of the fish in there, and you can't count or measure them. With electrofishing, you will see, measure and count more or all of those.

blows my mind that anyone has a problem with this? hopefully mark b. can chime in and explain it some more.

[Dave B.]

Andy and 'acabtp' are both correct on their respective points regarding electro-fishing.
Andy is 100% correct that for the best data regarding the presence of YOY (young-of-year) which is the main criteria used to determine natural reproduction, the best time of year is generally August. There are several reasons for this, among them the water levels are generally low enough to facilitate easier collection, the greatest period of mortality for the young fish has passed (this certainly isn't to say that no more mortality occurs, just that the potential for the greatest percentage of mortality has passed), the biologists have the most available time in their extremely hectic schedules during August, and as an aside it's the least likely time to impact anyone's day astream.

As for the many good and valid points that 'acabtp' raises probably the one greatest factor is this..."With electrofishing, you will see, measure and count more or all of those." In addition to being able to count and/or otherwise quantify the total trout population from YOY to the largest specimens in the stream section covered, the biologists also document the presence as well as the abundance and size/year-class structure or all other species present including every caught or observed species of minnow. This additional species data is quite crucial in helping them to determine the overall health of the stream environment.

In addition to all the species documentation they also do streamside tests of the water to document the temp, dissolved oxygen level, Ph level, turbidity, etc. Here again these factors all contribute to the statistical picture of the overall health of the stream. Often they will also do some seining for macro-invertebrates (aquatic and semi-aquatic insects, etc) to further complete the stream health picture since these creatures not only provide critical food sources for the fish, they also are good indicators of the overall long-term water quality rather than the 'snapshot' data the biologists acquire from their immediate testing.

Hopefully this will help some folks understand the importance of the electro-fishing and all the other data collection that accompanies it. As well I hope it provides a bit better understanding of just some of the extensive and on-going work our freshwater fisheries biologists do both on our behalf as the anglers of NJ as well as for the benefit of freshwater environments we all enjoy so much.

[buzzbaiter]

Fishing does not show you how many trout are in a stream, it shows you how many trout in that stream are hungry or angry enough to swipe at at your lure. Electrofishing shows you everything.

True but you can see and observe a lot when you spend enough time fishing a particular body of water. If I visit a stream 5 times with no trout caught/seen or a pond with no bass caught/seen, I think I can accurately deduce its not a very good trout stream or bass pond.

Fishing depends on lure size. Fish a small fly and the big lunker might not bother to move, run a big lure and the little ones can't get it in their mouth. Electrofishing shows you everything.

If use use a fly or small spinner or even bait, you can catch trout/fish as small as 2"

Fish spend a lot of time hiding in cover, and if they can't see the bait, you can't catch them. But electrofishing still can.

Weeds are not a problem until mid April or so. My catch rates for bass/ pickerel/panfish in ponds is much higher March-April then at any other time of year - especially summer when some places aren't even fishable due to weeds.

Even when they are out in the open, fish are camouflaged and many times you can't see them until they move. Electrofishing brings these fish to the surface as well.

I wear polarized sunglasses and I can see quite a bit in the water. Visit a small stream in summer(or mid winter) when its barely flowing and you can see 15 trout of all sizes finning in a pool.

Fish are awake and trying to escape while being caught. This is more damaging to their slime coat and causes a build up of lactic acid in their system that electrofishing does not. You can think of it as the fish that was angled having run a marathon to the point of complete exhaustion (the fight) before being released versus being tasered, measured while knocked out, and then released.

Not sure what your point is here. Are you anti-fishing??? This discussion is about electro-shocking not about the ethics of fishing. Let PETA argue about that. Also netting the fish, handling them, placing them on a scale and/or measuring board can also remove their protective slime no matter how careful you are.


Who exactly is supposed to "Spend enough time fishing somewhere and you'll know what a place holds by what you catch(or don't catch)" so we know what is in the KLG? A state employee that is paid to fish all day? We need to *know*, not *guess* how many and what kind of fish are in there for management purposes. Not having accurate data like this is what has caused the closure of river herring in NJ.

This is where angler input helps. Its not that hard to keep track of what you see or catch. If you see a drop in numbers or a species declines. let them know. Most times its simply a result of flooding or droughts and nothing sinister. And in all honesty, I think they'd rather be fishing for them doing the grueling backpack shocking them in august. lol. If the state thinks there is a problem, then survey and be sure. To me there is no need to survey the gorge or any other stream unless anglers stop catching trout or there is a real dropoff in trout caught.

"You can also look in the water and see spawning beds or young fish", you only are seeing a small portion of the fish in there, and you can't count or measure them. With electrofishing, you will see, measure and count more or all of those.

Yes but what you see can be extrapolated out. If you see one school of young bass, chances are there are others. If you see one yoy trout in the shallows, there have to be others. And keep in mind, the mere presence on ONE yoy trout is proof of trout reproduction which is a major factor in stream protection.