Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer4reel
If your info was accurate (which I don’t believe it’s even close )
Then NMFS would have to take those ridiculously high discards into account in landings .
Just like they add release mortality into ours .
They don’t just drag and drag until their nets are over full . And then throw back as many dead fish as they keep .
To them every fish is money .
Actually look at reports from Long Island and all the states above us .
Why are they experiencing the best fluke fishing they have ever seen ?
It’s pretty evident there is a movement of the main biomass of this fishery .
The movement that should have been filling in here. Was absolutely crushed by the commercial fleets from the Carolina’s .
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While fishing here def isn’t good by any means , this year there has been more commercial presence in our area than ever . And they definitely are catching their weekly quotas here .
So fish are here , even if recreational guys aren’t catching
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H4R, I'm not makin the discard information up, the graph is from federal on board observers. Who should we believe, you or someone whose job includes among other things monitoring discards and compliance among commercial vessels? My money is on the on board observers.
NMFS would have to take these ridiculously high discard numbers into account in their landings. This says the man who has maintained all these years every number published by NMFS can't be correct but now this number had to be added to commercial landings why, because you say so. First it should be added to discard mortality, not landings, and second if you do the research it wasn't reported as you know what commercial landing have been running at commercially for years. I'm sure NMFS just posted the information to piss off the commercials and open themselves up to another lawsuit by that sector.
I agree, to them every fish is money. But at the same time every fish that brings the highest catch value back at the dock is more money. This coming from someone who not long ago posted that commercials target the largest fish because that's where the money is. Can't have it both ways my friend. I'm sure their nets aren't geared to catch only the largest and miss the massive amount of younger age classes that become collateral damage and tossed back overboard dead. NEFSC maintains an 80% mortality rate for commercial discards per tow. I'm sure it's higher and in the winter it's 100% as fish harvested are taken care of first and then the fish being discarded are shoveled overboard. How many fish coming up from 100 plus ft. depths in 30 degree temps do you actually think survive after being towed around and left on deck for a half hour?
It’s pretty evident there is a movement of the main biomass of this fishery. The movement that should have been filling in here was absolutely crushed by the commercial fleets from the Carolina’s .
Thank you, you're making my point. Commercials are killing the southern portion of the biomass in our waters and eventually they'll be forced to move north when they do the same thing to our local biomass they did to the Chesapeake biomass years ago. Then they'll have no choice but to move further north and target the last remaining biomass that's left. The northerly biomass isn't growing, the southerly portion is contracting, exactly what I've been saying. And I thought you said the biomass wasn't back filling here because of New Jersey's recreational slot limit, now you're saying it is in fact because of local commercial pressure which I agree with among other things. Got it, thanks for the clarification and getting it right.
Again yes there's more commercial presence this year than ever and they are catching their quotas which were reduced by 43%. You honestly believe they're keeping smaller less valuable fish after taking a 43% haircut in quota. It's economics 101 my friend, and you question the accuracy of my information and opinions. Not going to get into a debate, stated my theory and time will tell whether it's correct or not but as I said, this fishery can't be managed the way it is and survive.
Name one other fishery that kills all breeders, has a year round commercial presence, kills millions of younger age classes in the processes, pounds the stock not only during their spawn but year round, has insane amounts of waste involved and God only knows how much illicit netting is taking place and I'll be more prone to listen to your arguments. Just name one fishery which has survived those conditions? That shouldn't be a difficult request for someone of your talents and pulse on the fishery.
