Gerry couple comments. In theory I'm also as previously mentioned in agreement with commercials having a 14" minimum size limit if it's being followed. Concerned about Dan's comments that mesh sizes are increased on a spot basis or in general since it would completely defeat that benefit and why the legislation was adopted initially. Over the years I've witnessed winter offloads at the docks and believe me there's aren't many if any 14" fish in their catches simply because that's not where the value is. Also don't believe higher mesh sizes help 14" fish escape. Most articles I've read say a majority of the catch due to weight of the catch combined with water pressure created during the trawl come up already dead or in a condition they won't survive if released. So while I agree the size was allowed to benefit the fishery, don't believe it's accomplishing it's intended purpose because of this wholesale price differential issue between smaller and larger fish.

Minor point but point nonetheless. Watch the video I posted earlier which I posted again below. Notice the huge strip at the 38 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inSN...ature=youtu.be

Video was made in 2010. Here's an excerpt from the 2010 Summer Flounder regulations:

Unloading of summer flounder can only occur between 6:00AM and 6:00PM from November 1 through April 30 and between 6:00AM and
8:00PM from May 1 through October 31. When a vessel contacts the Division regarding the time and place of unloading, the vessel must also report
how many landings will have been made that week, including the proposed landing being called in. Once the season has been closed in the directed
commercial summer flounder fishery, no vessel can land and no dealer can accept any summer flounder landed in New Jersey in excess of the bycatch allowances specified above, provided the amount of summer flounder landed from any vessel cannot exceed 10%, by weight, of the total weight of all species landed and sold. A portion of the annual quota is dedicated to a by-catch fishery. Once the directed and by-catch quotas for a season have been landed, no vessel can land any summer flounder and no dealer can accept any summer flounder landed in New Jersey. Only whole fresh summer flounder can be landed, except that individually frozen summer flounder can be landed in amounts not exceeding by-catch allowances specified above provided they can be measured for total length. No vessel can land and no dealer can accept any summer flounder which have been filleted or processed in any way.

Why would there be a fluke strip on board when filleting wasn't allowed at sea and then take a guess where those fillets ended up. I'm sure it wasn't filleted and discarded. Sure it wasn't reported on the FVTR since only whole fish are allowed to be weighed in. Based on the size of the strip the fish was a very big female like the others dumped only probably larger. Wouldn't be difficult to hide a bunch of fillets on board and sell them in the black market once back in port by transferring to another boat before pulling in to offload their catch. It's only one strip in the video but the larger point is it questions behavior at sea. As I've said, if those were the size fish tossed back dead, imagine the size of the 200 lbs. retained and how many other fish might have been filleted and either offloaded before docking or hidden from F&G back at the docks. Lot of compartments on commercial boats, wouldn't be difficult. There has to be ~50 fish in those three totes. Average size appears easily over 5 lbs. per fish for a combined weight of at least 250 lbs and if those constitute the smaller fish compared to what was retained, safe to say over 500 lbs. of female fluke were killed as by catch alone by one boat on one trip. Multiply that by the number of boats fishing and the numbers are staggering. If we're suppose to believe most fish come up alive in nets, you have to ask why all those fish were thrown back dead and not released alive when they hit the deck especially if the purpose of the video was simply to make a point to NMFS. Why would you have to kill those fluke to make that point. More likely scenario is fish were stock piled on deck throughout multiple hauls, culled after the last, largest fish were retained and overage either filleted or tossed back dead. When the boat returns to the dock, they appear to be compliant with 200 lbs. of fluke but the damage at sea has already been done. 300 lbs. isn't reported anywhere against the commercial quota and I'd venture to say minimal dead discard reported on the FVTR. Why would they, it would only be used against them in future quotas and is completely unquantifiable. It's the honor system and it doesn't work with the amount of dollars wrapped up in these fisheries.

I'm not concerned with quota allocations in general since they aren't terribly disproportionate and commercial and recreational have both been impacted. Regarding your comment " the commercials are monitored closely so they don't exceed their quota and given sensible rules that don't force them to waste the resources with discards". I agree efforts have been stepped up to monitor compliance at the docks but what occurs at sea is completely not monitored other than the location of the boat which does nothing to monitor catch. With the wholesale price differential, I believe hygrading is a major problem in this fishery and causing extensive damage. I know the "Codfather" story I mentioned is maybe an extreme case in terms of magnitude, BUT the fact it went on for 20 - 30 years undetected and was only brought to surface as a result of the IRS money laundering investigation speaks volumes about the ineffectiveness of enforcement efforts. While enforcement efforts have been improved, I don't agree the process and limited resources insure overall quota and catch compliance. NO ONE from enforcement has any idea what's going on at sea. It's simple to offload any amount of their catch before docking and run it up to NY to sell in the black market we all know exists and no one from F&G would even know. Hygrading is a problem, 60 - 70% differential in wholesale prices guarantees it. I believe the majority of operators play by the rules but a lesser percentage who don't reap havoc on this fishery. That problem is not an NMFS regulatory issue, it's a combination of the disparity with wholesale market prices between size fish coupled with the lack of sufficient enforcement resources fueled by a multi eight or nine figure black market for fresh fish that circumvents the regulatory supply chain.

As far as creating a separate category for charter and party boat catches, would have to give that more thought but my first reaction is along the lines of Gerry's reply and twofold. First it adds more divisiveness to the fishery and complicates certain matters (some of which Gerry already eluded to) more than they already are. Second it focuses again on catch and not reproduction which again in my opinion is the wrong focus. We're not addressing the primary problem hurting the fishery if we're to believe the data we have to work with is remotely and directionally correct. While I agree we should be open-minded to all suggestions, just my quick thoughts on the suggestion Gerry already replied to.