This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/ind...encounter.html

Really sad news here. Stay safe out there everyone!

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

very sad but they are apex predators and adult males in NJ start around 250# and range up to 800+# so unfortunately it was only a matter of time before this happened. bear numbers are exploding and the state is being hamstrung on population control by the "save nj bear" group etc. condolences to his family.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

were are the tree huggers now!!!!! I want one of them to go to that poor guys family and explain how cute and lovable bears are.:mad:

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Unfortunately no one was allowed to carry a legal firearm. A few warning shots would have more than likely been a life saver. Shame on nj lawmakers. As a ny resident I don't consider hiking this time of year without my glock.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

to be fair this likely would not have happened if the group didn't split up... knowing what to do during an encounter goes a long way

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Bears are not hunters, they are scavengers. This whole story sounds off to me. What five guys you know go for hikes together??? Pretty sure none of you call up your buddies on wednesday and say "hey, lets go hiking this weekend. I'll make sandwiches!"

I got chased about 8-9 years ago in Allamuchy State Park. That bear was on me before I knew it covering a good 300-400 feet in a few seconds. I climbed up a small hill, turned around and it was right there. I threw my pole, yelled/clapped and it stopped and turned away. I climbed up to the road, crossed thru traffic and ran down the shoulder. I then turned around and saw the bear with its paws on the guardrail watching me. That was not fun. Most times they simply turn away or I clap and they run away. This occasion was unusual but left its impact on me as I'm always a bit nervous while out fishing. Being someone who likes to hike miles and miles, I'm often far from safety. My best defense is whistle I carry.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I'm pretty sure that whole preserve is fenced to limit destruction from deer. I guess the fence wasn't bear proof though.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

scavengers my asrs.they are hunters,ask any farmer in northern nj.they do not fear man so we become the pray.do you know what an 800lb black bear
eats........anything he wants.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I have similiar experiences to buzzbaiter where they didn't run off but initially showed some aggression. Carry pepperspray now. have never had to use it on a bear but have on coyotes which on more than one occasion have followed me while fishing, getting closer each stop and then flanking me. Very unnerving

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

The four friends didn't hear him yelling and screaming?

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

They do occasionally go after large prey like deer but prefer scrounging around for nuts, berries, plant shoots and bees nests. Not a true hunter like a bobcat or coyote. Farm animals are caged, easy prey for them. Cornering a caged animal is far different then chasing one down out in the open.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

what ever you say.i'll sticki to the 10 gauge,not much question after that.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

They were five college guys. I used to do a lot of camping and hiking with my friends when I was that age.

The statistical probability of encountering a bear that has made the decision to kill and eat a person is very low, but any bear is physically capable of killing a person in seconds.

Bears are intelligent and very capable predators when they find something they can catch. Here is a video of a bear killing a moose calf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI


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Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Wow how horrible...... Here is an article on what to do inf you encouter a bear http://www.bearsmart.com/becoming-be...ear-encounters
"If you are in a group stay together because you will appear larger and more intimidating"

My closest encounter was in upstate NY in a remote part of the Adirondaks in my teens. I was told before I went to hike to this remote stream that the bear look for fishermen and want their fish...
Just got done fishing and was walking the rail road tracks home. Saw the bear, dropped my stringer of fish, walked away slowly and never looked back.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

i've hiked and fished (including once on the exact same day of year as the attack, yikes!) there several times. there are always trees down across the fences all over the place. plenty of deer in there too, the fence is worthless.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

This is a terrible story. I'm not a hunter. I assume a number of you are. But I think we need a bear hunt in NJ. I'm not sue if there is one. I can only imagine what the family is going through.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

So sorry to hear this bad news I knew it was just a matter of time. As a vol. with NJ F&W I 've been out a number of times on Bear projects man is no match to fight off such a strong force.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I hate reading these stories - such a tragedy... I've had too many encounters to count since I see bears on my property almost daily in the summer (my property borders a section of the Sparta Mountain WMA). 99% of the time, they are more scared of you than you are of them but I hope I never come across that 1 bear that isn't the norm.

My scariest encounter... I was in my driveway, down on 1 knee grinding paint off a section of an open car trailer I was restoring. I shut the grinder off and hear breathing in my ear. I turn my head and a 400-500 pound adult bear is leaning over my right should checking out what I'm doing (it sounds strange but you could tell he was just curious). As soon as I see his head about 6 inches from mine, I shout out and jump as one does when startled. This causes the bear to jump back a few feet (out of being startled from my reaction). So there we are, me still down on 1 knee about 4 feet apart from the bear and him just looking at me. We stay this way for about 10 seconds and then I clap and say in a raised voice, "get outta her... go..." and he slowly turns and walks away.

That day could have ended much differently... Be careful folks and read what Gerry posted... remember, these are wild animals...

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I was always told to play dead with a Grizzly, I have been up close but the Salmon was more enticing than me, but fight back against a Black Bear. In either case never run.
I was cornered by Abigail boar just upstream from Dingman's bridge. I had my back to the river and he blocked me from climbing up the bank an back to my car. It's a long story but I finally tried whistling loud and shrill with my fingers. He picked up his front paws, turned around and left. I continued to whistle for a good while longer.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Rumor has it some of the first responders had to get counseling the 'crime' scene was so bad. Sounds like he got Timothy Treadwelled...

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

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There is a bear season in New Jersey. It's not until early December because it runs concurrent with the opening of firearm deer season. By then, many of the bears are hibernating, but they still manage to harvest several hundred bears every year.

If they really wanted to reduce the number of bears in New Jersey, they would have a SPRING bear season like some other states do.

Maybe I'm weird, (okay I am) but I actually enjoy the rush of encountering bears when I am fishing. Anybody who fishes the Delaware River in the Water Gap area has probably encountered bears at one time or another.

Here is a pic I took of a bear I encountered one evening in April or May of the year before last. This was on the section of river just upstream from the three-minute light. I suspect he was thirsty and was waiting for me to leave so he could come down the hill for a drink of water.
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Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

The old joke was proven true, you don't have to be able to out run the bear, just your slowest companion :eek:

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

The season was set because pregnant bear den first. They had enough issues with the tree huggers to not shoot the pregnant ones

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I'm sure this post will prompt a reply but it needs to be said. You're post make absolutely no sense. It's tragic that someone lost their life but that doesn't mean the bear population should go unprotected and it should be open season hunting them. Anytime someone strays into the wild they need to be aware of the surroundings and realize they are somewhere as previously someone said where they're not the apex predator. It's the same thing that happened with sharks when jaws was releases and the world was immediately brain washed into thinking the only good shark is a dead shark. The world population of sharks has plummeted ever since and it's nothing short of brutal what has happened to every shark species on the planet. Society has over developed every parcel of land and pushed these and all animals to the brink. We go into their territory and then blame them for when an accident like this happens yet it's fine to kill thousands of them a year. If opinions like yours were the edict of the day, there wouldn't be a bear, deer or any animal left in the woods or a shark in the ocean. Accidents happen when people go into the wilderness and as tragic as it is it's part of the balance which exists in this world. That doesn't warrant in my opinion the extermination of a species. Some hunters like fisherman are conservation minded but many want to kill anything and everything that moves. That's not the answer but that's the behavior posts like yours will provoke.

Like I said it's tragic someone lost their life and it's tragic the bear also had to be put down but it had to be. It's what happens when a civilized society keeps pushing the boundaries with wilderness to the point where one day you won't have to worry about bear attacks because there won't be any bears left to attack with opinions and attitudes like yours.

My condolences to the family who lost a child.

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Eskimo,

Your post hits home. I started fishing the area you mentioned this year after many years of being away from the river. Last week I noticed droppings on the river which had to be a bear, all berries and too large to be anything else. When I fish that stretch, I fish along the rivers edge but on the way back I typically will walk up to the path which parallels the road to walk back to my car which is parked next to the three minute light. Every time I walk that path I think nothing other than this must be prime bear territory which I know it is. As I said in my earlier post, it's a risk I take fishing that stretch. i wouldn't suggest all bears in the Water Gap area be hunted down because as I said I'm infringing on their domain and it is what it is. If there's any area where bears have moved into a populated area I would take a different position but when people decide to spend their leisure time in the wilderness there are risks associated with that choice. I don't agree that killing every bear that calls the woods it's home is the solution.

Just for what it's worth which is what actually got me started thinking about bears along that stretch was when I started fishing there around June, there were hundreds if not thousands of dead shad on the river bank from the shad run. The stench was very strong and if there were any bears in the area I assume they would be down at the river after dark for a free meal. I'm sure they are. Absolutely something to think about after reading this thread. Probably won't be fishing into dark there anymore. Walleyes and small mouths just aren't worth the risk!

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Gwl,

Couldn't agree with you more. For bureaucrats to prevent people from protecting themselves is insane. I'm sure there's other matters to consider but why not allow people who hike to carry a firearm to protect themselves. The right to bear arms is an issue which will be argued forever but in the case of someone hiking in the wilderness there really is no other way to avoid what happened in this tragic situation other than to have some type of firearm to scare the bear away. Does it guarantee everyone would carry a firearm, certainly not, but is it an option which could save someone's life absolutely. It would also help preserve the balance between nature and society which is a delicate balance but one we can't ignore and think the only answer is to kill everything that moves. These animals are absolutely beautiful but they are wild and need to be respected and given their distance. As I said we are infringing on their land and there's less and less land every year they can survive in due to our own populations issues. If the right to carry a firearm addresses the right to protect one's self in the event anyone finds themselves in the same situation these five gentlemen in West Milford did, why would legislators not pass that law. It's something which should be revisited.

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

BB,

That would probably cause me to end my wilderness adventures but it's a situation anyone, fisherman, hiker's, people just pulling over at a rest stop, could and probably have encountered. I'm not sure what I would have done but thank God you survived the experience to talk about it! A whistle is a good idea. Not sure there is any spray, like pepper spray, made for outdoor encounters with wildlife but it's something worth looking into. Correct me if I'm wrong but Allamuchy State Park is right near the Free Trade Zone off Rte 80 correct? If it's the place I believe it is, it's a pretty popular trail and usually has a fair amount of people but like I said we are encroaching into the bear's world and it's a world which gets smaller and smaller every year. I don't mean to come across as being insensitive to the family of the man who was killed or anyone for that matter but to simply make a blanket statement to kill bears or wildlife in general is not the answer. I have a boat and do a significant amount of fishing throughout the summer off the Jersey coast. If you ever saw long liners pulling in their 30 miles of line, hauling one large shark after another into the boat, cutting their fins off and discarding the remainder of the fish overboard still alive to suffer until it dies, it would bring a tear to anyone's eye and if it didn't you simply don't have a soul. As the world gets smaller we need to collectively address how these blurred lines are going to be better managed and wiping out one species after another isn't the answer.

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Black bear are mostly scavengers but they do hunt. Evolution gave them that speed for a reason and it wasn't for running away. Ask any deer.

As far as guys going for hikes together, don't be so sure. I've been hiking with my buddies since high school days. Well, we bring our own sandwiches.

When the bear hunt was first proposed I wrote a letter to the editor that was printed in several newspapers that said the very same thing - that it was just a matter of time before someone was killed.

The bear population is not proportional to available habitat. That combined with the most dense human population in the nation is not a good mix.
The media keeps making a big deal about this being the first time in 150 years this happened in NJ. What they are missing is that bear have largely been non existent n NJ throughout the late 18th and most of the 20th centuries. It's only in the past decade or two that their population has exploded.

Yep, it prompted a reply. First, the the movie Jaws had nothing to do with the plummet in the shark population. Sure there may be a few yahoos who kill sharks for fun the way some shoot rattlesnakes. The plunge in shark numbers is because of their popularity as food, particularly in Asia.

Regarding bear in NJ, their population has not been "Pushed to the brink". There are probably more bear in NJ now than there have been in 100 or more years. They are thriving, and that's the problem.

As far as our "going into their territory", Manhattan, Newark, Hoboken, Paterson and Camden were once bear habitat. Precisely where does "their" territory begin and "ours" end now? Are the people who live in suburban Wayne, Totowa or West Orange in "their" territory or "ours"? I ask because bear have been caught wandering these suburban communities over the past few years.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

well dakota560 you sound like you know allot about bears.how close have you ever been to one.have you ever watched them for any lenth of time in the woods.my sons and I have hunted them in 4 different states and Canada.they are and always will be hunters.if they think they can catch and kill something they will.thats how they survive.i was lucky enough to harvest a bear a few years back and while I was at the check in station I was called a murderer among many other "nice" things buy those "nice" peeps who think the bear is a warm and fuzzy friend.the are wild animals that can reach 800lbs and can move full dumpsters around like they are empty coke cans.i am glad there is a bear season and think all hunters like myself should obey and follow all rules.
there are to many bears per square mile and the population just keeps growing.fish and game would love for us to think there are only 2k in the whole state.this was going to happen sooner or later.its like mixing bicycles
and cars on the road,sooner or later bad things happen.we are all sorry for the family and friends of the victim.no offense to the bikers out there.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Dakota, there is Bear Spray, however NJ weapons laws prevent people from any real defence based on the regulations in 2C:39-6i.

The problem is for the quantity needed in bear spray, recommended minimum 6 seconds @ 2%-concentration in a 30' fog pattern, you need a minimum od 10oz canister! Thanks NJ for making worthless laws that only handicap the law abiding citizen!

I have seen Grizzly and black bear in the wild while hiking and fishing. its a scarey proposition. But these Students shouldn't have been in the woods that day! Carrying snacks, then running from a bear.... it takes a special kind of stupid!

Killing on mass as a by product of an industries fishing practices is not the same as killing 1 bear in self defense. How you came up with that comparrison I don't know!

Effective game managment is the answer to the problem. All these "save the bear" protests only bring us closer to bear mauling or killing #2. NJ needs to open up new hunting grounds, trap & relocate bears to less dense geographic areas, and increase tag #'s for the season.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

EJS.

My response regarding what happened to the shark population was in response to Bunker Dunker's post "Where are the tree huggers now!!!!! I want one of them to go to that poor guys family and explain how cute and lovable bears are." You can see what is implied by that post and where it's headed which is kill them all. The stereotype sharks received after jaws was the only good shark is a dead shark and anyone who disagrees with that has spent no time on the water. Granted there is a world wide demand harvesting them for food BUT how many shark tournaments after Jaws was released were any species goes and every shark that was caught was dragged back to the scales, weighed and then dragged back out to sea, stomach slit and dumped. Can't tell you how many 700 - 800 lb tiger sharks in the 70's and 80's I've seen killed for the possibility of a tournament check or even worse just bragging rights back at the docks only to have the fish dumped afterwards and be completely wasted. It was an absolute disgrace what was being done to such a great resource. It's horrible what happened and it's taken probably 25 years for conservation and public opinion to change. And that's with a tremendous amount of effort by conservation minded organizations trying to save another species from making it's way onto the endangered species list. My comparison to Jaws is the stereotype the movie created and the pressure it put on all shark species is what will happen with one person tragically being killed. Last night on the news they reported the last time someone was killed in New Jersey by a bear was I believe 1850 so the fact that someone was killed over a period exceeding 150 years I guess that means that the state needs to have a massive bear hunt to reduce the resource. As a blanket statement, that's absolutely idiotic! Never proclaimed to be a bear expert and know very little about them so whoever accused me of taking that position not sure where you're getting your facts from. I've seen too many instances where the answer is always just kill the wildlife. The report last night also mentioned there were over 400 fatalities stemming from automobile accidents in New Jersey last year so I guess we need to eliminate cars in the state as well. And someone from DMV should go to every person's funeral and explain to the family how safe automobile's are!

I'm not against management programs to address situations that warrant management. When any animal poses a specific threat to people I agree they unfortunately need to be removed whatever way necessary. My point is "Where are all the tree huggers now, why doesn't one of them go to the funeral of this guy!" Wtf is the point of that comment! It makes absolutely no sense but implies we should just kill all the bears in the state and people who care about the natural resources are at fault for this guys death. Same stereotype the movie Jaws created. A person is killed by a shark, a movie in this case, and before you know it public sentiment is kill ALL sharks. That's an absolutely moronic statement to make or conclusion to draw. One person is killed in a matter of 150 years by walking into the woods with food and we should have an open season on the entire bear population or it's the tree hugger's fault.....please refrain from talking as you might continue embarrassing yourself Absolutely idiotic comment to make! That's the equivalent of saying if a person gets murdered in Newark, we should eradicate all residents of Newark because they're all dangerous. One person is killed in 150 years and the answer is to obliterate the resource.......that is a very logical perspective!!! As I said, I guess the same is true for auto accidents. We should ban all cars from driving on Rt 80 because it's simply not safe.

Broad generalizations directed towards specific problems very rarely work and they are a sign off a person with a limited IQ. Go ahead and take your shots, I actually take pride being insulted or challenged by someone who hasn't a clue. It actually reaffirms my beliefs.

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

I'm not embarrassed at all dakota560.i could care less about what you think
or anyone else on this site thinks about me or what I do.so you did some reading before you made this last statement,good for you.you left out the part about the stat offering 2bucks for a set of bear ears in the early 1900's in nj. or about what a problem they were then.i think you made a good point about
how no one died in 150 years but I guess someone or some thing has to dye before laws are made.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Raspberries along Old Mine Rd this year were all over the place. I'm sure they were chomping away on them. I sure was. Blueberries along the shorelines of our higher elevation lakes(sunfish pond/blue mt lake/stokes st fst and high pt st pk lakes and ponds) were also quite abundant. Hickory trees are full of nuts. They've had plenty to eat so far this year. Low water in rivers, swamps, ponds also means fish and frogs r easy prey. Not sure why they are chasing people for Granola bars.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

Why does anything need to change based upon a single rare occurrence?

What I see are groups of people, using an extremely rare tragedy, going half-cocked to try to support their own agenda.

Hunters who want earlier/bow/muzzy seasons for bear are standing on their soap box. People who want less stringent gun regs will argue this is proof you need to be armed in the woods. Anti's will claim the bear was pushed out of its range by early season scouting and accustomed to human handouts from bait piles. Tree huggers will claim over development.... You get the point.

Take a deep breath, enjoy the outdoors and if you see a bear - don't panic, use common sense and enjoy the moment.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

My point is no matter what is done there's a balance between populated areas and the wild that will always create issues....it's just a fact of life. There could have been 10 additional laws on the books last week and it's very possible not one of them would have changed the fate of the man who was attacked. The point I was making on both my posts is there shouldn't be an over reaction to the extent that we eradicate a resource, don't believe that is the answer under any scenario. If people walk into the wilderness there are inherent risks, and legislation isn't going to change that one bit. I don't necessarily agree that wiping out the bear population or the deer population or whatever animal we're talking about is the answer.

Does anyone other then me find it slightly hypocritical that bears are hunted every year. I can assure you as well since I know a fair amount of hunters that illegal baiting takes place more than anyone is willing to admit. It's supposedly part of the SPORT....don't quite understand that either. But we kill a fair number of bears I would venture to say more for the sport of it than for bears culinary benefits. It's the hunt, the challenge and the beautiful bear skin rug on the floor or wall. I accept that. Yet when the tables are turned and a bear, in this instance one in over 150 years, decides to attack a person probably as a defensive measure or maybe for food, the typical reaction is we need to kill all bears! We're flabbergasted when a bear shows aggression but we hunt them as a sport, not for food, every year and expect there to be no instinctive aggression in return from a completely wild animal. I just struggle understanding people's perspectives when it comes to that point of view. I would suggest not going for a hike with food in your backpack in their domain and that will probably resolve all potential conflicts without the need for a state wide hunt or new legislation.

Or maybe the answer some people propose is just kill them all to eliminate the risk. No management programs, no education to heighten public awareness, nothing just wipe them out. Don't agree with those opinions any more than I agree with what has happened to the shark populations world wide over the last 30 years. You would think we'd learn from our past mistakes.

Baetis, completely agree with your post!

Dakota

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

X2

Thoughts and prayers for the boy and his family.

Re: This is horrible - 22 yr old killed by bear in West Milford
 

X3 with baetis

No one in this discussion suggested eradicating or further regulating bears so lets drop this one...