Cormorants
 

It's way past time for the state to do something about these "devil birds". The standard reply to any query has been "we are looking into it".How many more years and thousands of trout,not to mention bass,sunnies ,well every species being decimated before action is taken? They do a great job at the hatchery producing fish for our over populated state. I was enjoying a great spring with two breeders and two oversized rainbows .Released those and kept some of the smaller browns for the table. These smaller fish which supply the most action for the fishermen are being wiped out in some lakes within days.So i put it out there to all:what do we do????

Re: Cormorants
 

uh, nothing, they are wild birds. you going to shoot all the bald eagles who eat stocked trout or trophy smallies too?

is this a serious thread?

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SC hunters killed 11,653 cormorants last hunting season. http://www.thestate.com/2014/04/04/....kill-more.html They ruined the fishing in Carnegie Lake.

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It's a messy issue. I wouldn't normally support killing non-game, native wildlife but this is becoming an issue. I wouldn't mind seeing hunters with a migratory bird stamp shoot those cormorants.

When I was kayaking Merrill Creek Reservoir, one of those birds nearly shit on my head. I wasn't even under it. It actually projectile shitted in my direction.




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Re: Cormorants
 

Not trying to start a pissing contest.Twenty years ago there were zero cormorants in my home lake. Now there are twenty swimming in wolfpacks wiping out every fish they can .Just was hoping the state would try to control them like any other species that becomes a nuisance.Deer,Canada Geese come to mind (also wild species i believe). I dont recall mentioning anything about shooting eagles but smartass answers sometimes make thier way into all discussions.

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I usually don't like killing of things senselessly, however lets face it. These birds show up (only) during trout stocking periods each spring. Each spring there's more and more. I cant tell you how many times I've fished local ponds and the only one catching fish are the damn birds. I'm all for it. Let's solve this problem. Otherwise let the birds live, and keep barely reducing stocking (because of a bacteria outbreak, caused by birds in the first place) and stop charging us fishermen extra money for trout stamps. That's my two sense.

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I agree with the comment about Carneige Lake. I often fish the board walk area by the Princeton aqueducts for Calico Bass in Carneige Lake.
Although we aren't talking trout here, you can watch the cormorants diving down and feeding all day long on crappies, sunfish, perch, small bass, etc.

I realize that this is all natural, and they hafta eat too, but I also like to eat the crappies and yellow perch they are scoffing down.

Also, at the dinky Mohawk Pond in Red Bank these birds seem to know when the stocking days are. Many of them sit on the pond overflow drain in the middle of the lake and rapidly go into action feeding on the trout as the stocking truck is dumping them in.

I've fished both these places for many years, and I never remember seeing them when I was a kid 60 years ago. Now the cormorants are all over.

Denny

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i saw 1 eat a carp last year since then i have waged a secret war just know if i invite ya to a turkey dinner at my home it may be "fishy"

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they're just a part of nature, like snapping turtles, snakes and all the rest of stuff that eats the trout besides people... but unfortunately cormorants taste like garbage (fish actually). so no hunter that i know, myself included, would waste a shotgun shell on one... and i eat canada geese (not known for their flavor) all the time, so i am not exactly picky.

i really wonder what those SC hunters did with their birds

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Nothing I'm sure. They're just douche bags who get a thrill out of killing something. I've almost gotten into fights at the beach and lakes when I've seen people messing with seagulls or geese. I'm sure there will come a time when I see someone hurt a wild animal intentionally and I end up hurting them.

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Mergansers can do a hurtin' on fish pops in rivers & streams as they hunt in packs. I've seen them on some very small trout streams. I once spooked a bunch and one of them actually regurgitated its last few meals when it saw me (this happens to me on some blind dates too. lol) any how the pic is below. It was two white suckers and a 4" wild brown. This is one mergansers meals in one hour or less of feeding. Multiple this by thousands of birds times hundreds of days of feeding and u can see how they could put a serious dent in fish pops. IDC about the suckers but the trout? That's another issue entirely. I've also seen them on the Raritan(main & both branches), Delaware and Paulinskill.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...9242011051.jpg

I've seen cormorants at Merrill staring down at me from the standing timber but never seen them feeding. That reservoir is chock full of fish so they don't seem to be bothering the fish there.

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Cormorants have ruined Colonial Lake in Lawrenceville too. All year long maybe 5 or 6 birds live there, but once the stocking starts they fly in from the Delaware River in droves to gorge on trout and whatever else they can catch.

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http://www.michigansportsman.com/201...nt_4_photo.jpg


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http://www.lakeontariooutdoors.com/c...nt-content.jpg

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Cool pics! Yellow perch are schoolers(even more so as juveniles) so it makes sense they can gobble up a bunch all at once. Most predatory gamefish like bass, pickerel, trout tend to be solitary feeders which may help them survive being eaten by birds en masse.

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Those scoundrels like to eat Pike, too!


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...94_634x560.jpg


http://www.fishingfury.com/wp-conten...2/cormant1.jpg

http://www.fishingfury.com/wp-conten...2/cormant2.jpg

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Santee Lakes in San Diego has Cormorant problems They tried boomers, put in Catfish instead of Trout , even larger Trout with limited success. Finally they got a kill permit and that stopped it for a while.

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This is a very serious problem! Look it up. I guess you think we should do nothing about invasive Asian carp in Ohio? Sometimes action is needed to keep the balance. FYI the fish have always been here the Cormorants haven't always been in NJ. They are as bad to fish as the feral hogs are to crops. Great pics from Eskimo posts.

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I love freshwater but as far as cormorants go... I'd love to see all there heads blown off: what good are these invasive species doing? I remember seeing them in Florida years ago and hearing the same whisper... Blow there heads off...!!!
If a bald eagle could swim underwater it would most likely be fairing a lot better, look at these black devils that dive down and chow up..I'm just sayin...survival of the fittest may have to include eliminating
Certain pests!!

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Wow, that last post sounds incredibly unintelligent. Cormorants are NOT invasive. They are a native species and you guys are on here crying about them eating non native bass and trout? Get a freaking clue.

Re: Cormorants
 

in·va·sive
inˈvāsiv/
adjective
1.
(especially of plants or a disease) tending to spread prolifically and undesirably or harmfully.


I consider them highly undesirable...

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how about just relocate them to Passaic?

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I love all you guys on here and have learned so much from ya'll, so I'm shocked that some ya'll can't see the forest from the trees.

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gspdark1 ,would you care to elaborate on your statement ?

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Cormorants are common to wetlands all over North America. They are not an introduced species like LMB, snakeheads, or feral pigs. Those animals are all the fault of human beings, and while the LMB has found a niche with sportsmen (the very reason it was introduced), the others are certainly not to be taken lightly. However, they are very different from a species that is just annoying like the cormorants.

Feral pigs were used for comparison in this thread. They tear up farms, attack pets, destroy property, and breed at a prodigious rate. They have become a problem because humans allowed them to become a problem. Cormorants are just making a living. They are a wild animal doing what wild animals all over the world do: eating, and making more little wild animals. The trout stocking program provides a great deal of entertainment for many sportsmen, but it is just that: entertainment.

These birds are a natural and essential part of the ecosystem. Are they breeding in greater numbers than usual? Possibly. Are they a detriment to their environment? Not that I am aware of. The trout are stocked for you to have fun. The suggestion that these birds should be evicted from their natural habitats because they are feeding on your hobby is a little bit disappointing. As fishermen, we should be preserving the environment in every way possible, not exterminating an animal for the sake of convenience.

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Well put 1089 ....

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The more sensible solution is to stop stocking the trout. What ecological purpose does it serve? The birds have always been there; they are not a new species. They are just taking advantage of something that humans are doing, and getting themselves food with the smallest possible effort: the goal of every wild thing with a growling stomach.

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These birds have not always been in NJ. Also trout are not the only fish these birds eat in large numbers. (Eskimo posted pics in an earlier thread that shows they eat just about anything) I never said let's wipe them off the face of the earth. However, they are a problem to many states across the country and Canada. It's not just a Jersey thing. Also the reason I used the feral pig as a comparison is Cormorants do cause damage to trees shrubs and vegetation. This is due to the large amount of guano/shit they produce. The pigs may be more destructive.....but you yourself said humans allowed them to become a problem. So all I'm saying is control the numbers before it's to late.

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I did see the pictures. However, none of these species are endangered in any way, and I have yet to see evidence of damage caused by cormorant droppings in my own outings.

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Exactly! Not "yet" I can't make it any easier for you to understand. Go research it on Google.

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ATH1089 pretty much said it for me. We can't replace one species in favor of one we (as humans) prefer. It's up to us to be both sportsmen and conservationists.

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Speaking of natives, NJ has few native fishes worthy of pursuit. Pumpkinseed sunfish, chain pickerel, yellow perch, suckers, eels, shad, fallfish, creek chub and bullheads are native to NJ. Crappie, Walleye, Carp, Pike, Musky, Bluegill, LMB,SMB, Rock Bass along with rainbow & brown trout all introduced. Imagine a NJ w/o bass. Kind of strange to think about huh?

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The USF&WS manages them:

http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/Cu...cormorant.html

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I did, actually. And as an ecology student, you do not need to lecture me on the dangers of introduced species or invasive species. To my knowledge, these birds have had no negative ecological impact in New Jersey. Which is, unless I miss my guess, what this particular forum is dedicated to. There has been no study in New Jersey regarding their impact, or any changes made by them. The only issue is the one faced by sportsmen, which does not matter one whit from an environmental standpoint.

The birds were not always in New Jersey? I sincerely doubt that. Just because you do not hit something as often as a deer with your car does not mean they are not here. How often do you see cougars or coyotes in NJ? Almost never, but I guarantee you, they are there. Fish and Game will not even admit it, but ask anyone who spends a significant amount of time in our woods.

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they're super wary, so it definitely is pretty hard to see the coydogs with your own eyes... but my trail cam sees them ALL the time. in denville.
http://www.tombeauchamp.com/misc/hun...oyote_1024.jpg
just wild animals trying to do their thang

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Cormorants are smart birds. When you put easily caught food in front of them they will take advantage of it. Small shallow impoundments help them catch their prey. They are like a Fox in the Henhouse. Corner the prey and pounce. Depredation permits are only a temporary fix. Spring Trout Season doesn't last that long in my home waters as there are no holdovers. Putting up with the occasional Trout being eaten for three or four weeks isn't that big a deal to me. Hatchery Trout are dumb at first and easy pickings. The local population of fish seem to be fine with the birds present.Too bad they taste like SH!+ or there wouldn't be a problem. Peta would be selling shirts saying "Love Cormorants don't eat them".

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Fantastic... maybe we can get Harry Reid to round them up.

QUICK, SOMEONE CLAIM THEY ARE THEIRS AND THAT THE FEDS NEED TO STAY AWAY!

(just don't talk to the press afterwards ;) )

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LOL! You're an ecology student? Really? Well then you should know if Cormorants have been here In NJ all along or not. Well "student" here is some homework for you. I'm including a link to a study done in Ohio back in 2006 that should put this link to rest. Once again let me point out that I'm NOT saying kill them all but their numbers are increasing. Also it's not just the "stocked trout" (or as you put it just a sport fish) that they birds eat it's all kinds of fish. This report also shows how THEY ARE DESTRUCTIVE to plant life which you claimed they were not. I'm guessing your just a freshman and don't know any better.

However, you were right on one thing. No study has been done in NJ. Care to guess why? That's because until recently they had not been in NJ in any large numbers. Now they are and now is the time to act before they become a much larger problem like in the Great Lakes Region.

BTW Fish and Game does admit to coyotes in NJ and has for some time.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/coyote_info.htm

The Cororant report is 196 pages. Enjoy the read and I wish you well with your degree.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/midwestbi...CCOfinalEA.pdf

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I was already aware of the study in Ohio; that was kind of the point of 'no study in New Jersey.' Sorry if that was too subtle for you. The coyote bit is news to me. I have not been involved in the hunting game for some time, so I do not check up on that sort of thing very often. The stocked trout, however, seem to be the only thing people care about. The birds are not having a negative impact in New Jersey except to sportsmen, who should know better.

They are native to this part of the country, whether you want to admit it or not. Just because there are more of them around does not mean they suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They are taking advantage of natural resources like everything else. More resources is inevitably going to lead to more birds. Is that really so complicated?

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If you were aware of that study then why would you say they are not destructive to plant life? Which is a huge part of that study. Seriously, stop making yourself look bad. First the coyote comment and now this. All I have done here is quote facts based on studies done by United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Wildlife Services and the United States Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Services. Not once have you posted any proof of anything. Just your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. Again good luck in that degree.

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You have posted no evidence whatsoever of any of this occurring in New Jersey. Which, again, is what this entire forum is dedicated to. A species that destroys one ecosystem can have no effect whatsoever on another. New Jersey and Ohio are not the same place. Do you know how to read a map? When New Jersey has done a (preferably independent, but I will settle for a government one) study on the effects of your (incorrectly) labeled 'invasive species,' then I will make a judgement call. Until then, you have absolutely nothing to complain about, because your claims are baseless.

Show me the New Jersey ponds devoid of fish because the cormorants have eaten them all. Show me the tons of rotted vegetation. Show me the cormorants out-competing all of the local fish-eating birds. Oh, wait. You cannot.