Weakfish meeting
 

As many of you know the weakfish population is at an all time low. The weakfish need a chance to rebuild! The best way and the fastest way is to close commercial fishing for weakfish for two years and close recreational fishing during the spawning season. For years commercial fishing was allowed without a limit on the amount of weakfish that could be killed. Commercial and recreational fishing is still allowed in the spawning area of the entire east coast. The winter yard of the weakfish is still open to commercial fishing, Can you believe the ASMFC has the audacity to claim it is not their fault that the weakfish is heading for the endangered list! The ASMFC will meet on August 19, 2009 to find a way to rebuild the weakfish. All comments must be received 3 weeks before the meeting or they will not be heard. Do not expect any fishing group like the RFA to make a case for you or me. This group was started by marine manufactures and that is were their allegiance lies. Please let them know the condition of the weakfish as you see it. http://www.asmfc.org/

Best,

Ken



kensdock.com



nmeserve@asmfc.org> SEND COMMENTS TO NICOLA

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Weakfish populations are certainly not high right now, overfishing surely contributed in the past. Understand that the population appears to be inversely cyclical (that is, when one is higher, the other is typically lower) with croakers, which have been very abundant in recent years. Getting involved and submitting comments is certainly a positive.

HOWEVER

Let me think about this for 1/1000th of a second. Take away the marine manufacturers and you take away all the boats and all the tackle, where does that leave the fishermen? Take away the fishermen who buy the boats and the tackle, and where does that leave the marine manufacturers? You can't have one without the other.

You've got an axe to grind, go grind it, but don't try to somehow link weakfish decline with the RFA or suggest the existence of the RFA hasn't been to the benefit of the recreational angler. What a crock.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

They are getting our messages


From: nmeserve@asmfc.org [mailto:nmeserve@asmfc.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:17 PM
To: Harford, John
Subject: Re: Fw: Weakfish Meeting Aug 9th


Good Afternoon,

I will include your email in the public comment section of the Weakfish Management Board's briefing materials for its August 19 meeting. The agenda and briefing materials will be made available on our website (at: http://www.asmfc.org/summer09Mtg.htm) within a few weeks.

Also, FYI, the summary report for the very recently completed weakfish stock assessment is available now through the Northeast Regional Stock Assessment Workshop's website (http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/saw/, scroll all the way to the bottom). The Management Board will be reviewing this assessment in August and may consider management action in response.

Regards,
Nichola

Nichola Meserve
Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission
ph: (202) 289-6400 f: (202) 289-6051

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

well said capt. adam ...it's the equivilent of trying to put inner city shootings blame on the NRA

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

In a nut shell. If money continues to be put before the condition of the fish stocks all fishing will continue to decline. If our waters are teeming with fish there will always be fishermen.

Re: Weakfish meeting/update
 

ASMFC Weakfish Board Adopts Addendum IV in Response to
Depleted Stock Status
Newport, Rhode Island – The Commission’s Weakfish Management Board approved measures to
reduce exploitation by over 50 percent in both the recreational and commercial sectors. Addendum IV
requires states to implement a one fish recreational creel limit, 100 pound commercial trip limit, 100
pound commercial bycatch limit during closed seasons, and 100 undersized fish per trip allowance for
the finfish trawl fishery. All other management measures previously adopted to conserve the stock and
reduce bycatch remain in effect.
The Board’s action comes in response to the stock status of weakfish. A recent peer-reviewed
assessment found the weakfish stock to be depleted, with spawning stock biomass estimated to be three
percent of an unfished stock, well below the 20 percent threshold and 30 percent target reference points
also approved by the Board as part of Addendum IV. The decline in biomass reflects a sustained rise in
natural mortality after 1995, rather than fishing mortality which has been modest and stable over the
same time period.
“The Board received a significant amount of public comment supporting a coastwide moratorium. In
recognition of this, it chose to implement measures that would discourage directed fishing, limit bycatch
mortality, and ensure that critical sampling programs remain on track,” stated Board Chair Roy Miller.
While the decline appears to have resulted from a change in the natural mortality of weakfish in recent
years, it is further exacerbated by continued removals by commercial and recreational fisheries.
However, given the high mortality levels, the stock is also unlikely to recover rapidly. The Addendum’s
measures are intended to reduce the level of harvest without creating a large amount of discards.
Addendum IV will be available via the Commission’s website at www.asmfc.org under Breaking News
by November 15. For more information, please contact Nichola Meserve, Fishery Management Plan
Coordinator, at (202) 289-6400 or nmeserve@asmfc.org.
###
PR09-46

Re: Weakfish meeting/update
 

This was already covered HERE almost 2 weeks ago, but thanks for re-posting it anyway. Keeps it up in people's view.

Any reason you continue to re-post information that already has its own thread and was posted a couple weeks ago? (other than to pull back up your bull$h!t anti-RFA nonsense)

You sir are a day late and a dollar short with this one, but thanks for posting it twice in two different threads on the same day...I guess :rolleyes:

Re: Weakfish meeting/update
 

I posted the release in this thread as a follow up. Capt.TB as you can see, I was correct when I made this statement in July: " Do not expect any fishing group like the RFA to make a case for you or me. This group was started by marine manufacturers and that is where their allegiance lies. I was at the weakfish hearing in September where the RFA lost supporters due to their unpopular position on weakfish management. As you know they supported a commercial bycatch and continued recreational fishing in the spawning grounds.

CaptainTB, The days of only a few voices being heard during fish management hearings are over! Get used to it!

Re: Weakfish meeting/update
 

Perhaps they did not speak for YOU, but no group can possibly represent everyone, and only a fool would think otherwise. When you find a group that you agree with 100% of the time on 100% of the issues you let me know.

As I said before, thank you for re-posting this information.

Something I have been pushing for since the 90's. I have been a vocal voice for more people coming to meetings and speaking their minds for over 15 years, hopefully more people will start getting involved. To tell me to "get used to it" implies I would want otherwise, and you could not be more incorrect in that assumption if you tried. If you go back and look at over a decade and a half of public record you would know I have been hoping to "get used to it" for quite some time.

Re: Weakfish meeting/update
 

Strictly as an angler, I am not sure at all what you are trying to say here to fishermen. Its apparantly CLEAR what you are saying to "other" fishery support groups. I can NOT understand the thinking that suggests that ONLY one group has my best interests at stake whether its weakfish or any of the multitude of species being regulated and discussed. Therefore its very hard to accept your posts with any validity, it reads as just a ploy to exploit your groups view vs another and at the end of the day does nothing for me "the fishermen"
JMHO

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Ken's Dock, Benny's Landing, Fried Flounder, Cape Fear; whatever the moniker this week, the same 'anti-RFA' message is always there. Whew, it's tiring following this anti-fishing campaign around the Internet.

That said, if you'd like to see the RFA's official comments on weakfish, please visit the following link:

http://www.joinrfa.org/Press/Weakfis...mIV_100609.pdf

SCIENCE doesn't support a moratorium gents - how can we?

RFA has been clamoring for spawning season closures for years.

Welcome to the fisheries management game Kenny/Benny/Lenny - you might win more friends in here if you keep the turds of the sand box!

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Hutch, You should have attended the NJ weakfish hearing in October, you would have learned some facts about the weakfish stock that you cannot find on the internet. One of the facts was that a weakfish moratorium offered the best chance for the weakfish to recover! I am anti-fishing?! That statement sir, is a total joke.I have caught thousands of tuna, weakfish and stripers. Hundreds of white marlin,spotted sea trout and many other species.I have participated in hundreds of salt water tournaments here in NJ from the Mid Atlantic to local flounder tournaments and I have won many of them.I am still passionate to this day about salt water fishing. Hutch,in all the years and all the time I have spent fishing, I have never seen you with a fishing rod in your hands! Not on the beach,not at the Mid Atlantic, not anywhere!!

Unlike you Hutch,I do not have to worry about Viking yacht or any big supporter in forming my opinions or picking a weakfish management option. The weakfish option that you supported is in complete disregard of the health of the weakfish stock and the future generations of recreational fishing.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Funny, I probably fished more by the time I was twelve than you have in your entire life and I never saw you anywhere either! Does that mean you did not fish or something?:rolleyes:

Now THAT is funny! Because, afterall, we all know that people with a viking yacht do lots of weakfishing!!!:D :D

Thanks again for the laughs kensdock, you never disappoint with your ridiculous comments.

Strange, you haven't chimed in on any of the other 20 or 30 topics going on. You come in, post something months ago about weakfish and anti-RFA, then disappear. Come back with the next weakfish update and not only post it, but go back and dig up the same anti-rfa nonsense, then disappear except for this one thread. But then I guess you must be so consumed with weakfish and all the things going on in weakfish management that you haven't had time to even look at....oh wait, there hasn't been anything else going on in weakfish management, but you must have been too busy to even give anything else another thought I'm sure.:rolleyes:

Oh wait, I seem to remeber some comments from another site you made about sea bass, strange you never posted here in those same topics.

and something about....
I love this one....
this last one is hysterical. I love the part about partyboats just going trigger fishing or striper fishing. I also love the "they used the best available...... then they used the SAME science to assert the amount of fish caught. Sorry bennyslanding, uh I mean Kens Dock, uh I mean fried flounder, but they used science that the federal government itself called fatally flawed and demanded be replaced. But I digress, you guys read and laugh for yourselves.
You have a nice day now ya here?

Hey Kensdock!
 

I'm going to have to follow your posts on other websites now.
:)
I've been accused of being anti fishing myself. I'm actually pro environment-which includes fish and everything else on the planet that man has controlled by direct or indirect means. And I think they taste great.
Fishing organizations whether commercial or recreational are greedy-they want the most of what their members can get. They aren't always looking towards the future. Closing the striped bass down years ago really was a stupid idea...

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Tony, Your post is way off the topic. You take quotes from old post and display them out of context. What next? Have me banned from the site for not agreeing with you and Hutch?!

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Here's my favorite Kensdock quote:

"Today the flounder bite continued to be red hot in the Delaware Bay! I just spoke with a vacationer that spent all day on a local party boat. He said, the party boat had about 50 people fishing and they only caught two keeper flounder combined all day! Very few party boat captains are good fishermen. Very few charter boat captains catch fish!"

Ha! Now that's funny :p

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Kensdock,

Approximately what percentage of weakfish would still be killed by commercial discarding under a moratorium?

I had read that by only moving gear out of areas would there ever be any substantial savings of weakfish by commercial fishing.

Since I know you extensively campaigned over websites for just simply a weakfish moratorium, what did your research on the savings find?

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Yawn.... let me know when you come back to reality.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

A lot less, an experienced commercial captain with modern equipment can easily identify a school of weakfish. The problem with a bycatch is it will become a fishery as demand increases. Many small gillnet operations use small boats that are inexpensive to run, they also fish near shore areas giving them the ability to make multiple trips a day. All they needed is the ability to sell the weakfish the rest of the law can be circumvented.They will be permitted to fish in the spawning areas during the spawn. Now multiply the bycatch by the amount of commercial fishing operations on the entire east coast, at this point you can clearly see why a moratorium was the best option. Be that as it may, the weakfish have a better chance of recover than they did prior to addendum IV.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Tony, Many people with offshore rigs like Viking still fish for weakfish,stripers and flounder. A good friend recently put a bid on a new 65ft. Viking and I can assure you he is an avid weakfish fisher. Viking was writing the pay checks for the RFA at one time,I was told. The best available science is exactly what they always use !

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Kensdock,

Clearly based on what I've read, you say things without any facts to back up your assertions, as well as omitting key points.

With all due respect, I can't take either your advice or comments seriously.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

My answer to your question was derived from generations of commercial and recreational fishing knowledge and personal experience. I can assure you that this knowledge and experience can not be found in any hand out,book or the internet. I hope my information helped you form your own opinion. Some people just blindly follow groups like the RFA.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Kensdock,

Your background is so different than mine. I have no family history of fishing and I started recreational saltwater fishing late in life.

What I do in order to form my opinion is to read through meeting minutes, stock assessments and public comments.

In the end, I didn’t agree with a moratorium for weakfish at this time.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

A lot of folks did not agree with a moratorium at this time PBAngler – that’s because scientists and fisheries researchers say the decline in weakfish biomass is reflective of a rise in natural mortality, not fishing mortality. In other words, science doesn’t support a moratorium as it would have little impact on the overall stability of the stock.

RFA doesn’t support the use of arbitrary, unsubstantiated and nonscientific information and ideology in closing down fisheries. How could we?

Guys like Ken would rather you listen to his views exclusively than read our specific position statements on weakfish, or anyone else’s for that matter. When Ken starts getting behind in an argument, he turns to personal attacks and innuendo - typical schoolyard bully behavior, “if you don’t give me your ball I’ll beat you up.” I’ve never met the guy, but from what he’s written about himself I understand his fishing exploits are quite legendary.

People don’t follow the RFA blindly – our members understand that our folks are in the trenches everyday dealing with mudslinging, rhetoric, slander and misinformation from the outer reaches. Every message board in America has a Kensdock trying to close and protect some fishery. There’s a BillfishBilly in the Southeast trying to make marlin a catch and release only fishery, Striperswiper wants to make striped bass only accessible to anglers who throw artificials, while GiantTagger wants to make bluefin an endangered species. Add it all up, and you can see where the divisive tactics can take its toll on a community.

Once it gets personal and off the topic at hand, I’m out. Good luck folks!

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

If you read all the information concerning the weakfish decline and did not support the moratorium option: You have failed to assimilate the information offered by the ASMFC or you have completely disregarded the depleted condition of the weakfish out of greed or self-serving interest.

The overwhelming majority of recreational fishermen voiced their support of the moratorium option.
“The Board received a significant amount of public comment supporting a coastwide moratorium. In
recognition of this, it chose to implement measures that would discourage directed fishing, limit bycatch
mortality, and ensure that critical sampling programs remain on track,” stated Board Chair Roy Miller.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

Kensdock, the same could be said for you.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION WEAKFISH MANAGEMENT BOARD - August 19, 2009

DR. DANIEL:
“My whole career has been focused in on weakfish and now we’ve made a big circle. I do want to say a couple of things from the North Carolina perspective.”

“I do have to say I do have a great amount of concern. A lot of you around this table recall the proposal to close the EEZ to weakfish harvest back in the mid-nineties. We vigorously opposed that suggestion because of the multi-species nature of the fisheries off North Carolina and I think some of the other states as well.”

“The sink net fleet will still be operating in the same areas at the same time catching the same fish. They’re just going to have to discard all the weakfish.”

“… but there are also going to be some inside fisheries as well as gillnet fisheries that can have very high quantities of bycatch of weakfish unknowingly.

The last example I’ll give you is the Valentine’s Day Fishery back in 2002, I believe, when a group of about four or five sink net boats went about 30 miles offshore in 360 feet of water, fishing a large-mesh, six-inch gill net for large bluefish, and they all rounded off their boats with tens of thousands of pounds of eight- to fifteen-pound gray trout; very unexpected, unavoidable.

Those fish were all dead …”

MR. O’REILLY

"Given that, I’m going to spend just a minute here, if you don’t mind, but on the moratorium idea I clearly remember in 1991 and the proposal of the technical committee to the management board was as long as you remove all the gear out of the water and do regional blocks of having gear out of the water a moratorium will be very effective."
--------------------------------
Kensdock,

Your idea of simply a moratorium was not going to get us much in the way of commercial reductions of dead fish as opposed to what they voted for. Unlike other recreational anglers who just believed what you had to say, I did my own research and reached a different conclusion. One that was more in alignment with the RFA's points.

Time to move on, this has already been decided for now and there are a ton of important issues that need our attention today.

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

I totally disagree! That type of situation is very much avoidable. I am sure all the weakfish that where caught that trip where sold at the market. Here in Cape May co. NJ there was a dramatic drop in weakfish being caught by recs from 2001-2002. Every guy that fished the traditional weakfish spots during the 2002 season had the same question, what happened to the weakfish?!. Mystery solved at last! The dog fish did not eat! them.The stripers did not eat them! The predation theory is total bull &%@$!
Speckled trout or specs as we call them in Cape May co. NJ did not show up this fall in any numbers for the first time in at lest fifty years. What do you think happened to them?

Re: Weakfish meeting
 

My guess would be a combination of things. Incorrect stock assessments leading the management to believe they were in better shape than they were, which lead to the wrong decisions. Under reporting of dead discards in non-direct commercial fisheries (i.e. scallops) and multi-species commercial fisheries. Under reporting of commercial sales. A huge dent put into them by NJ anglers who legally sold them. Cyclical. Biomass so low at present to cause predator/prey to be a major concern for them now (as prey of course).

Did you sell recreationally caught weakfish ever? If so, you were part of the problem, IMHO.

Re: Hey Kensdock!
 

Excellent! The power of the majority will not be denied!

“The Board received a significant amount of public comment supporting a coastwide moratorium. In
recognition of this, it chose to implement measures that would discourage directed fishing, limit bycatch
mortality, and ensure that critical sampling programs remain on track,” stated Board Chair Roy Miller.

This was accomplished with out a paid staff, lawyers or a law suit.
It was accomplished with the combined effort of individual anglers!!
I hope in the future we continue to take the time to send our comments and make a phone call or two.If we do, no law or regulation will stand without the consent of the majority.