Releasing fish with Baratrauma
 

Cant understand with so much emphasis on releasing big tog here and in many surrounding states . A deep drop depending device isn’t required on every boat .
Many states have done tagging and radio studies proving it’s extremely effective .

Instead of letting a fish lay on their side in a fish box , or in a net .
Seems using a descent release would get those big fish back with a better survival rate .

https://seaqualizer.com/product/seaq...ending-device/

Same with deeper caught sea bass every spring . Even Nj has done study’s showing at least venting a sea bass allows them to get down instead of floating on the top .
Takes only a second to vent a fish to hopefully allow it to recover to be caught another day .
I have seen days fishing for sea bass among boats with hundreds of short sea bass floating away .
IMO that’s just total disrespect of that fishery .
And if a boat can’t do what’s right for the fishery they shouldn’t be fishing for them .

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Some great info here

https://returnemright.org/

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Brilliant!

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Dan I couldn't agree more with your post. And typically sticking what is essentially a gaff size hook in a fishes head won't promote survival. The regulations absolutely suck forcing recs to waste the resource but there's also a responsibility we have to protect the resource in spite of the regulations and the absolute carnage caused by commercial operations.

This off course is my opinion, hope I'm allowed to voice it here. If not, anyone is welcomed to pm me and we can further discuss.

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Before the device I posted was available boats in Alaska did use a weight with a large hook as the descent device for rockfish not being kept , especially yellow eyes .
They claimed the survival rate was extremely high from tagging studies .

I talked here to the person from FG that did sea bass study’s here .
He said survival rate venting sea bass was extremely high .

So why not require its use on any fish being released .

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Dan in my opinion it's no different than mandatory use of circle hooks. If devices promote survival, mandate them. I'm sure they're less expensive than the cost associated with not using them and protects trophy fish which deserve better than being stuffed with crab meat. I've been on many of those offshore sea bass trips and the waste is off the charts. If we're no different than the commercial sector with discard mortality rates especially in the winter with deep drop fisheries, we lose our right to complain about what's happening to one fishery after another.

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Dan I've seen it used, as Gerry said it's brilliant but only if used. Party and private boats should be mandated to have them on board. It benefits the fishery, their livelihoods and recreational interests. Every fish killed represents hundreds of thousands if not millions of eggs potentially taken out of circulation.

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While I feel these sorts of devices are beneficial, not sure I agree if it should be mandated since the last thing we need is more mandates. I do however think it would be appropriate to educate people that these devices are available and encourage their use.

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I disagree , go out to the deep water reef in the spring and watch how many short floaters you see out there because guys are LAZY.

Oh it’s too much work for a head boat , which are the first ones to bitch there isn’t anything to fish for .

Add up the losses everyday for the spring season , it probably exceeds the number of fish kept .


Already states mandating these devices are used for many years already , no reason for NJ to not join those PROTECTING their fisheries . Instead of being more concerned with an inconvenience.

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I remember a winter party boat cod trip 25 or more years ago. Leif, for those of you on the site for a while, was on board and the first time I'd met him. Great guy. First stop I remember him saying we're way too deep for cod. He was right, no cod but all the 3-4 lb. sea bass you wanted. Problem was, season for sea bass was closed. Drop and reel, as soon as your rig hit the bottom it was double triple header sea bass with almost everyone tossed back belly up.

Captain stayed there for more than an hour so probably 500 or more beautiful sea bass floated back to the gulls. You had three choices, keep them and risk being fined back at the dock, toss them overboard for the gulls or stop fishing. I chose to stop fishing as not one cod, the target species, was caught and I couldn't continue killing absolutely beautiful sea bass. A complete waste. No venting equipment on board and certainly not the devices Dan posted. In the absence of a mandate, a sensible mandate in this case, people won't buy a $25 venting tool to protect fisheries because they're lazy or not informed. There should absolutely be a requirement on party and charter boats who do this for a living. But as always, this is someone else's problem, not theirs.

Gerry, I fail to understand the logic in your comment. I understand and agree no one likes mandates but when those mandates help preserve stocks what you're saying is you'd rather risk anglers killing hundreds of fish out of season or below the size limit as opposed to making a one time purchase for a $25 venting tool on a trip you'll spend $300 dollars alone for in gas to get to the grounds. Those same people will be the first to complain when possession limits are reduced and seasons closed. If you're political views are against regulatory mandates, don't target the species.

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Maybe someone can answer a question for me on this topic.. I too have seen way too many dying fish float away, feebly trying to right themselves after being cranked up from deep water.. Any device that cuts this down a lot is worthwhile.. However, I don't see this problem near as much in freshwater .. We catch lake trout while jigging as deep as 200 FOW, and the fish always swim back strong.. I have even caught perch and sunfish at 85 FOW in summer and they swam back strong... Hadn't really thought about why that may be, but this thread got me thinking about it... Even at 75 feet I have seen a lot of salt water fish go belly up on the surface unable to swim back down, but never saw it as yet in a fresh water fish caught from deep water.. Anyone know?... bob

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FROM GOOGLE


Freshwater fish can experience barotrauma, especially when rapidly brought up from deep depths, but some species are less susceptible due to a physiological adaptation called a pneumatic duct which allows them to release gas from their swim bladder, effectively "burping" to adjust to pressure changes; fish lacking this duct are more prone to barotrauma when brought to the surface quickly.
Key points about freshwater fish and barotrauma:
Swim bladder function:
The swim bladder, a gas-filled organ that helps fish maintain buoyancy, is key to understanding barotrauma.
Physostomous vs. Physoclistous fish:
Fish with a pneumatic duct connecting their swim bladder to their digestive tract (physostomous) can release gas more easily and are less likely to experience barotrauma compared to fish without this duct (physoclistous).
Examples:
Fish less likely to experience barotrauma:
Trout, salmon, and pike have a pneumatic duct and can adjust their swim bladder pressure readily.
Fish more likely to experience barotrauma:
Walleye, perch, and bass lack the pneumatic duct and are more susceptible to barotrauma when brought up from deep water

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Freshwater fish generally don't get the bends because they don't breathe compressed air like humans do when diving, meaning they don't absorb large amounts of nitrogen into their bodies at depth, which is the primary cause of decompression sickness ("the bends") when surfacing rapidly; whereas some deep-sea saltwater fish can experience issues with their swim bladders due to pressure changes, which can be similar to the bends but arises from a different mechanism related to gas volume regulation within their bodies.

Or what Dan just posted.

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IMHO I think any device like Dan posted that can save fish should be implemented. Why NOT? Inconvenience is not an excuse.

Having said that and when you fish with quality Captains I have found out that not all "floaters" die especially seabass. After a great stop with shorts and keepers slowed Capt spun the boat and we all including the crew tapped the bloated floaters on the head quickly / sharply with Rod tips and soft end of the gaff and I was amazed at the amount that revived and swam back quickly to the bottom (or somewhere) but they all were lively!

This was not one trip but many. Also what worked was throwing the bloated shorts back fast head down. Granted more in 65 to 120 ft depths vs offshore but the "floaters" don't all die even offshore and I believe the boats left care.

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A lot of questions to be answered which might make me think otherwise because often times the devil is in the details and what seems to be logical in theory is not in practice.

- Who is responsible for purchasing the device...The boat owner, private or for hire or the individual angler or does there just have to be one on the boat?

- Same question above except for who's responsible for making sure the device is used and is it mandatory to use on every fish and any species that's released or only the ones showing signs of decompression?

- Who makes the final decision to implement this? Some committee in the sky who can make a unilateral decision or will this be discussed and decided by the public in a state or region.

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It’s already written into law in other states .
Every boat is required to have and use it to release every fish not kept caught from waters deep enough for compression .

Marine fisheries should be mandating their use to protect the fisheries .

A venting tool is 10-25 bucks
The investment isn’t in the tool , it’s in actually using it

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Spoken like a bureaucrat. Don't over complicate it. Start somewhere and make changes when needed. As Dan mentioned, there's states that already have this in place so use best practices and follow their lead. Or we can do what ASMFC, MAFMC and NMFS do which is overthink and overcomplicate matters, what if it to death and simply kick the can down the road to the point where nothing is done.

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Tom - If your "spoken like a bureaucrat" remark was directed at me, I take offense to that and you might want to retract your statement since I feel it's a personal attack on my character...

Opinions are always welcome here but personal character attacks are not :mad:

Re: Releasing fish with Baratrauma
 

Gerry my post was a general comment, not directed at you personally so nothing to retract. Note your name or "you" isn't written anywhere in my reply.

If you want to discuss personal character attacks, we can certainly go down that road as you've more than once come at me for benign posts I've made and statements of opinion. Icing chub mackerel, mind my own business and it's none of your business. Your comment on yesterday's blackfish thread, the same. None of my business posting a personal opinion. I remember your edict to stay off your threads, didn't realize there was a rule where members couldn't comment on your threads. And let's no forget damn yankee's pm with his sexual innuendos repulsively directed at me that you found acceptable behavior.

I've always posted professionally and respectfully on this site to share information and educate members about what's happening in fisheries management. If that's against protocol or off limits, just let me know.

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You just don’t get it ….

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very good , thanks for the explanation.. I do know that when we crank up a deep water laker, they always seem very "gassy"- you see lots of bubbles coming out of them as they come to the surface..

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That's your opinion which you're entitled to. Personally I believe I do as many others do which would probably surprise you .

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When I said you didn’t get it I did not mean your opinion, I’m talking about the manner and tone in which you present them. I know this comes from your passion but in my opinion, your opinions might be better received by others if they were a bit less confrontational. But hey, that's my opinion and we're all built differently...

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Thanks for that Dan. I'm starting to come around here. You and me are usually on opposite ends of things but I always appreciate our discussions and your point of view. Although yours might differ from mine, we can still talk about them and keep it respectful.

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i think the angler should take some responsibility also.learn to properly vent a fish brought up from the depths{that can be}.i do allot of off shore sea bass
trip every year.i know that those bass coming up from that depth will have the bends.i learned how to vent them and now watch every one that i throw back swim straight back down to the bottom.it takes seconds to do.tile fishing is a horse of another color.i believe that anything brought up from 700-1200ft doesn't stand a chance of revival.

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Agreed 100%!

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What we use is even cheaper than the unit Dan presented. It’s called Vent-a-Fish and is a hollow needle unit. Every short sea bass from depth can be vented within 5 seconds and returned very lively. In a pinch, we’ve also used Littoral Society tagging needles with a little bit of wrapped duct tape at the blunt end to help with grip. If we toss a fish inadvertently without venting, I have noticed that quickly tapping head with Rod tip fixes them like Dale said and if not we net them and vent quickly.

No reason in the world why any boat can’t have a few needles and instruct folks to let the mate quickly vent the fish. Could be very hectic when everyone is catching but conservation should be the priority.

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Gerry thanks for your reply. I'll be the first to admit I post with conviction and I don't sugarcoat my comments. I've spent 7-8 years and thousands of hours researching and communicating with state and federal agencies including ASMFC and MAFMC. I went through all the proper channels and in the end got ZERO support from RFA, SSFFF, JCAA and the ASA when politics was brought into it. Everyone has their own agendas and nothing will change with fisheries management because collectively we're focused on the wrong issues and no one has any balls to challenge NMFS.

I actually made more progress with leadership and recreational fishing groups in New York than our own state including New York state representatives until my work was intercepted and sabotaged by a sponsor from this site who if he reads this knows who I'm referring to. Read the attached article on page 15 submitted in 2019 from the New York Recreational and For-Hire Fishing Alliance by a good friend Steve Cannizzo signed by other NY FV operators. I wish I experienced the same support from my own state's fishing organizations.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...ts+10-4-19.pdf

Also read the full analysis submitted to the Commission and the Council regarding the status of the stock.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...ber+19+Mtg.pdf

The sponsor I’m referring to called one of my contacts, intercepted a piece I was working on for a State Representative and ripped him a new ******* for supporting my work. For the record, it wasn't Capt. Ron who has done more than his share fighting for our collective recreational rights. A sponsor whose livelihood depends on sustainable fisheries goes behind my back and sabotages my work. The same person who asked me to prepare multiple power point presentations, write memorandums and research reports and attend an NMFS function which was later cancelled for political reasons trashes my work behind my back because it didn't support his personal or club’s agenda. Precisely why the recreational sector will never organize and eventually small businesses and party and charter boat operator’s dependent on these resources will fade into obscurity because everyone has their own motivations, none of which include the ultimate health of these stocks.

So when I post comments I write them with passion and conviction. If it offends anyone, lose the thin skin because if we collectively don’t start bringing heat there won’t be any fisheries left for future generations. Gerry, you’ve mentioned a number of times you want your grandchild / grandchildren to enjoy the fishery as we have and the generations before us. If we continue kicking the can down the street and don’t start addressing the issues corrupting fisheries management, you’d be better served having your grandkids take up golf or tennis as these fisheries one by one will disappear. I’d be less concerned with my approach and tone and more concerned with the content of my posts.

Its why I commented about a certain individual a few weeks ago. He’s part of a flawed process that’s delivered brutal results under his watch. Name one thing he’s done for the striper or fluke stocks that’s positive to the recreational sector or the fishery itself. I’ll be the first to applaud talent, positive performance and results but it needs to be earned. I don’t see any of those attributes in this individual, just my opinion supported by drastic reductions in each of these two fisheries.

For 5 or more years I’ve predicted a collapse in this fishery due to the way it’s being managed. I believe a 42% decrease in assignable quota for ’24 and ’25 represents the beginning of that collapse and it will continue for the same reasons I’ve stated. Not one person or state or federal agency has said my analysis or conclusions are wrong, they simply refuse to admit their decisions over the past two decades have been.

I’ve tried to educate members on this site for everyone’s benefit but clearly few want to hear it so I’ll refrain from further comments. Just remember when seasons get closed and possession limits go to one, remember each of you had a choice and your choice was status quo and to accept the crumbs the recreational sector has been given every year. We’re actually at a point where crumbs would be an improvement based on the regulations being forced on us.

If we ever get to a point where a decision is made and funding secured to sue the federal government for violations of MSA, I'd be happy to assist in that litigation. Until then, I'm simply wasting my time and the site's time as most here could really give a shit about the future and are only concerned about today which in my opinion is what NMFS wants and is assuredly a formula for failure.

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I also vent sea bass as I stated in other posts , and feel everyone should .
Mustad sells a venting tool for under 10 bucks , though I like my pro vent better .

The seaqualizer I think is better suited for blackfish and other bottom fish .

I agree with BD fish caught below 150’ are pretty much toast .
We caught short raker rockfish in Alaska in 600-1000 ‘
They were pretty much dead before they got to 300 and actually floated up to the surface quickly from 300 on up .

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Thanks for that Tom and did not mean to discourage you from staying involved here and in other places fighting for what you invested a lot of time and effort in. We need passion and critical thinking.. I just wanted to point out that passion cuts both ways but where I and others draw a line is when it gets personal..

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I know crappies caught over 30 feet get barotrauma as well. I see it with the ice fishing guys who target them in deep basins in the winter.

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I thought I would show you what we use down here, there are pressure sensitive release clips available, but I like this set up better. The weight is a section of stainless steel prop shaft, available from any boat yard that does repairs. You stick the point in the fish mouth and out the gill cover. When you yank up on the rod the swivel shifts, the point is now down and the fish slides off. This makes it easier for the fish to swim away or for sharks to eat it ! These are mandatory I believe on the Gulf side of Florida, and recommended on the Atlantic side.

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Capt. Rich, very cool, I assume that's custom made? How much does the weight weigh and what depths do you typically use it in or does it depend on the species being fished for? If anglers tried, millions of fish a year would be spared. No need for regulatory mandates unless anglers aren't proactive and start using these devices voluntarily. There's no downside, almost no cost and nothing but benefits. Thanks so much for sharing.

Quick story about 15 years ago. My son hooked off Asbury Park on our last drift (fluke tournament) a black drum that probably went every bit of 80 - 100 lbs. We were only in about 50 - 60 feet of water. Fish wouldn't go down, had the bends which at the time I didn't think was possible in such shallow depths. We tried releasing her for at least a half hour without success, she floated upside down every time and gulls started moving in. as a last ditch effort, we took a fillet knife and pierced a pin prick under her large scale about 4 inches behind her pectoral fin. You could hear the air being released instantly. Swam her for a minute and off she went in a blink.

These things work and should be on board every boat as they cost almost nothing and will help save many different species of fish.

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The weight weighs a couple of pounds, I welded a ring to the top for easy attachment.
The pin and swivels came from Return'em Right, they also supply a pressure activated release clip.
SeaQualizer is another company that makes a pressure activated release clip.

I keep it rigged on a short junk rod next to my helm chair (express model) so I can grab it any time I think we need it. Anything over 60' its possible they are going to gas up, especially the small mutton snappers. It seems some species are more prone to it than others, I guess it's anatomical variety. I hate seeing throwbacks drift away on the surface.