Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Years ago I was on a very crowded party boat when the mates pulled a large fish out of the hold. I guess the mates won the pool. Stuff happens all the time. How many nights when the "mates" won the night bluefish trip pool because the majority of the fares were either drunk or passed out. Not saying this is common practice but I worked deck before, I know what can go on.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

what ever happened to "due Process".you think you got scamed???you wait to air it here on a public site instead of taking it up with the capt & crew.this is
nothing more the a fresh pile of BS.this is how bad things happen.this is not a discussion,it an open invite to bash party boat capts and crews.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Does anyone want me to call the whaaambulance?

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong.. I have a lot of respect for guys that work the sea daily. however it IS a business based on customer satisfaction.. Therefore customers can voice concerns in a forum of their peers.
I never named the boat, nor did I bitch about it during my initial report.. I bashed no one except the mate that was crooked in my opinion, based on close to 5 decades of fishing on for hire boats.
I personally will never again go on the boat in question, but never asked anyone else to do the same.

The number of replies to this thread and the fact that i have had several PM's from members enjoying this discussion would seem to indicate its a valid topic, and that a lot of members here deem it as perfectly acceptable.
Don't like it?... Why bother replying?
Its just a mid winter discussion thread to pass the time.
No one forced you to join it, why put down those members that are willingly contributing to it?... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

You're 100% right. It stirs interest and a good information filled discussion with real fishermen. Our peers, And it is hard trying to get even without naming the boat.

Some people have opinions. Some think YOU should not have an opinion if they don't one. Now that's funny!!!!

Of course there's dishonest people. But what do you do to avoid getting screwed by them should you meet them? I found this informative and so did 5 pages of fishermen discussions.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

in my experience, people who are low enough to cheat aren't worth talking to or reasoning with anyway. I def would of recommended saying something though to test the waters, if the mate blew you off I would've left it at that and then never returned with my business to them and warned anyone else that i knew about the situation. plenty of great, honest anglers and crews around and the other ones don't deserve our business imo.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

agreed, 100%.. The guy in question was an exception no doubt in my mind.. The Main thing I learned here, is that I was more of a wuss than I should have been, but I don't typically call people out in anger any longer at my advancing age,, especially strangers.

With this discussion I have found that most guys would have at least questioned the outcome, and perhaps got the captain involved... I hope there's not a next time, but if so, I will be better prepared.. hell I am seldom close to catching a pool contending fish anyway. bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

dose no good to speculate period.you will never know now what happened.learn from it and move on.pot stirring just breeds bad things.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

c'mon bd, lighten up.. Its just a discussion. I do know what happened, thats what the post is about.. Kindly give me just a bit of credit.. I have been at this a very long time, and even had articles published in a well known magazine about bottom fishing, I have seen a LOT of fish over the years.. I can tell when one fish is bigger and heavier than the other..
I never had to "move on", because it wasn't that big a deal.. I got beat out of a few bucks, big deal happens a lot to a lot of people.. I just thought it would make a good mid winter discussion, and have found that a lot of other anglers can relate similar instances of their own... No need for anger, its just a fishing forum thread.. Doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme......bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Here is one when the mate collects all the fares and pool money. Instead of going directly to the captain, he makes a detour to closed door room. After ten minutes he appears and go up to the captain. Fishy!

How about when the mate and captain sell their catches to the fishermen. And if one of the fish is a pool winner. The captain and mate split the pool. And use that fisherman name for the winner of the pool.

A mate will let the fisherman a free pass on the pool but if he caught the pool fish, the mate gets to keep the pool prize.

The best way is the way Frances Fleet does it. The fare and pool is collected at the shop, pool money has to be cash. The fare's names are written on the paper, Next to the names will be a check mark for the pool. The pool money is wrapped by the list names and it's handed to the captain. When there is a pool fish the mate will ask for your pool ticket. When it is a close call the Captain makes the final call
.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Party boat pool integrity was taken to a new extreme this past August in Hyannis when the Captain resorted to a digital scale back at the dock, rather than the balance. Son Brian was pleased :D

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

That would solve all the problems, and eliminate "human error", as long as no 16 ounce sinkers are involved.... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

I wish you just let everyone know the boat! Perhaps the mates might treat their customers a bit better if they were under the microscope.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Nah,, That wouldn't be right.. Captain has always seemed like a good guy, and he wasn't around at the time, he was in the wheelhouse piloting the boat back to port...Its all on the mate for being crooked, and me for being way too timid to open my mouth... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

I've never seen sinkers down the throat, mates cheating or favoring one fare over another....not once on any boat east coast or west have I witnessed any shenanigans in the pool. However, whenever Gambling is involved...(You're betting against others that you will catch the biggest fish) there will be people who cheat. some people are just scumbags. plain and simple.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Thanks Bob.

To be honest, when a pool is run on my boat, I leave it to the customers to actually run it, and it's usually the leader of the charter or the most experienced angler on an open trip. The mates and myself always stay out of it and the only way we have ever gotten involved was in making a call on whose fish was bigger (usually done by a digital scale so that was never really an issue either).

I think on headboats it's a much more subjective situation and the old fashioned balance scales are always deciding a pool. I know for a fact, with boats that I have been on IF a question of the pool came up the captain had the final say, no matter what.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Thanks for the reply captain.. I REALLY like the idea of a digital scale, and also the captain having the final say on the boat, and not one of the mates..bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

When there's money involved there's inevitably shenanigans going on. Fish pool, politics, business.....doesn't matter. Lots of shenanigans.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Well stated

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

The problem with the internet is that anyone can post anything, and if they spin it right, others will pile on and before you know it, someone's opinion becomes fact.

I've followed this thread for days before posting and from what I read, you believe your fish was bigger than another, but the other fish beat yours in the pool. There are no FACTS, other than your opinion, to support this. Instead of addressing it immediately, you wait weeks and post your gripes here, which causes others to pile on and speculate and wonder what boat would do such a horrible thing, even though there is NO PROOF that anything inappropriate occurred. You are also now boycotting a boat that you were otherwise happy with, because you lost a pool where you think your fish looked bigger than another (again, no proof that your fish actually weighed more).

I have probably weighed a thousand or more pools in my days working deck and countless times the fish that looked bigger did not weigh more and lost. It happens. I'm not so naive to think that shenanigans never happen, but you have provided no evidence other than "my fish looked bigger" to show that you were cheated. I do respect your decision to not name the boat because there are some sheep here who would follow blindly in your boycott, hurting someone's business when they probably did nothing wrong.

RC

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Many party boats here determine a close pool via a digital scale

This past spring I lost a pool by less than an ounce.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Finally! Someone with a brain! Thankyou!:)

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

OK, so its OK for the mate to be rummaging through his buddies bucket for the largest fish in it .. Got it

Its ok that he never centered the scale.. understood.

NO problem that that scale never budged.. It was locked angled up.. fine..

I have never seen that before.. the scale always moves a little if fish are close..
Add to that the fact he took my fish off the scale in two seconds, never saying a word or looking at me. Lot of red flags.

I don't know how long you have been fishing my friend, but I have been at it for close to 60 years, and have caught a lot of fish, and over the years participated in a lot of pools, and won my share..
I know shady when I see it, and this event was by far the worst.
When you get a "racer" looking sea bass and a heavy bodied knot head with thick shoulders that are the same length, the heavy bodied sea bass is always heavier.. this isn't my first rodeo...
Lots of years doing this, and I know what I witnessed, your thoughts not withstanding.

I have seen a pool fraud one other time, as stated, when a fish was brought from a downstairs cooler, looked partially frozen, and was placed in the "winners" bucket, who happened to be the woman who ran the galley's son.. Many years ago, but I watched it happen...

This is the only time its happened to me. Others have stated similar things have happened to them.. It DOES happen.. Not all the time, not even often perhaps.. So you think I am lying fine, i have been called worse.. Eveyone else that related similar stories.. Liars as well?..
I'll say it again.. I am not "bitching".. Its happened many months ago, and I should have done something right there on the spot, but I am a pretty timid type when it comes to this sort of thing... In case you haven't read all of this thread, it was an interesting topic I felt, at a time when there is not a lot of fishing "stuff" to discuss.. Lots of good replies as well don't you think?.. If you don't like the topic, great- simply stay out it the way I stay out of topics I don't like..
There are many good topics about salt water angling that might be enjoyed by the knowledgeable members here. Post one. I am sure it would be appreciated.

meanwhile, this one is still active, still civil, and judging by most of the responses both here and on my PM, is still being enjoyed.. my apologies for the fact that you are not enjoying it..

there are those in this world that take advantage and manipulate monetary situations for their own benefit my friend, I hope you realize that.... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

The horse has expired may it r.i.p.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

No need to post if you feel that way capt, simply let it pass by.. Others have enjoyed it... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Enjoyed it on the first page. Now it's just idiotic

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Could not agree more.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

starting to get that way, agreed. Gerry, you might want to ditch this one... bob

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

There's a weird north korean vibe to some of these responses, lmao.

Bob, unless Gerry pulls the thread, you can post whatever the f*** you want. This is a discussion board, and judging by 6 pages of posts, your topic is of interest. People should argue the merits of w/e position they hold, but no one should tell you to quit posting because you're "stirring the pot."

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

Capt. Joe think what you intended to say is "finally someone with an alternate opinion" since I assume you wouldn't antagonize the board by implying other posters are brainless......would you? Like others I appreciate the ability to have a open discussion on the topic. Boats name wasn't mentioned, an experience was shared. BB wasn't trying to defame anyone, he was trying to prevent others from having a similar experience. If you've followed Bob's posts he certainly sounds like a solid citizen so don't think he's trying to stir the pot, that's my opinion doesn't have to be yours or anyone else's. No one knows what happened but Bob, his son and the mate. RC's opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's on the thread unless he was there......it's simply his opinion which he has the right to share but it doesn't mean it outweighs anyone else's.

Just an FYI, I've witnessed the exact thing Bob described years ago (boat will also remain unnamed). Guy who appeared to have the larger fish "lost" until he asked the mate to switch the fish on the scale after which he won, it wasn't close. Does that mean it was intentional, draw your own conclusions. Does it mean all mates are sketchy or the industry is, absolutely not. What it means is it can happen and if you want to make sure it doesn't to you there's three things I'd recommend. Follow the mate around the boat when fish are being weighed. If you believe you're fish is larger for whatever reason, as already mentioned ask to have them switched on the scale in front of you. If you're still concerned something may have been placed inside the fish, you can pretty much tell from feeling the stomach cavity if there's foreign objects like lead. It might only happen once in a lifetime or not at all, but you have the right to ask and if you're uncomfortable dealing with the mate you have every right to approach the Captain and get him involved. Mates are his employees and I'd think he'd appreciate being in the loop if anything questionable was taking place aboard his boat.

Good thread, good interaction, let's help Gerry by respecting one another's opinions whether they mirror our own or not, that's what makes for good discussion.

Re: Party Boat pool "irregularity"?
 

no one ever said you "can not say that".what i am saying is this should have been taken up with the captain and or crew at that time.speculation is just a french word for bs.