Fluke regulations

[dakota560]

Abrasion I hope you don't mind me starting with your comments from the other post. doing so to make a point. Your post said,

"Based off the reports I've been reading and from my own experience this season, it seems like the feds were right to lower the quota and increase size limits.

I think anyone that has been fluking this season would find it difficult to disagree...."

Would ask anyone who cares to give a reasonable explanation of the following facts based on NMFS's own data and relate it to Abrasion's comments.

I've posted many times before Spawning Stock Biomass (SSB) hit an all time low over the last 33 year history in 1989 when it was reported at ~7,000 metric tons. By 2002 it surged to ~50,000 metric tons, the high over that same period of time. That's over a 600% increase! An increase I want everyone to understand was accompanied with annual catch amounts that averaged 58% of SSB. Let me repeat that, over a 13-year period where the summer flounder SSB increased 600%, annual catch averaged 58% of SSB. Currently, based on NMFS reported statistics, we're running closer to 15%. If catch as NMFS would want us to believe is the problem and catch as a percentage of SSB has been cut by ~75% and in the absolute, then why does SSB remain in a free fall decline?

During the same 1989 through 2002 period when SSB exploded to ~50,000 metric tons, possession limits and size limits were 8 fish and 14" respectively from 1989 to 1996. 1997 marked the beginning of a series of continuous size limit increases coupled with possession limits reductions resulting in an initially gradual and currently much more pronounced decline in the fishery.

Correlate all this to Rutger "Length and Sex" study as well as recruitment statistics which have been absolutely crushed since size limit increases have been implemented and give me one reasonable explanation of how quota cuts and continued size limit increases are favorable to the fishery. In 1989 when SSB hit it's low of ~7,000 metric tons, the next five-years catch averaged ~11,000 metric tons and SSB more than doubled to ~15,000 metric tons over that five-year period. Today's catch quota is ~5,000 metric tons, SSB was reported to be 34,240 metric tons at the end of 2015 (last year reported) and still SSB continues at a rapid decline.

I just don't see how anyone can support continued regulatory changes mandating continued and unabated harvest of larger fluke when the statistics CLEARLY show the negative effects those policy decisions had and continue to have on the fishery. I welcome any other plausible explanations which would rationalize these trends and or justify the path NMFS has us on other than the fact their continued focus on increasing size limits to manage catch quotas is crippling the fishery.

And just so everyone has all the facts before sharing your theories, recruitment strength in 1989 was ~2,900 recruits (new fish age zero) to metric ton of SSB. In '15 that number dropped to 644 as part of a parallel and continuous decline every year size limit increase were adopted....every year. That's an ~78% decline in recruitment strength yet we continue the almost exclusive harvest of female fluke!

[Chrisper4694]

It's not the regulations themselves that piss me off (5 fish, 3 fish, idc) what pisses me off is that the commercial boats are decimating the populations while we get nickle and dimed with rod and reel regulations...gtfo

I don't even want to keep really big fish...I fish for keepers as if they have a slot (because i believe every game fish should have a slot), letting the really big ones go (worth more in the water than in a cooler every time).

Anyway like Dakota basically said, it makes no sense at all to raise the minimum size limit...If anything they should lower it and cap off a slot to force release of bigger fish (usually the very successfully spawning females).

Never going to happen but it's nice to vent.

[Joey Dah Fish]

Spot on Tom that lack of common sense and the facts that support your opinion are clear yet the marine Fishery council continues to ignore facts and support not only incorrect but made up data shows they're not actually helping but hurting our stocks.

[Togfather2530]

I think we all agree with u. I'm just saying I don't believe the stocks are up. We are declining the situation by taking all the big breeders. I think the real question is here is who has the balls to make their own rules. By the way nj is a liberal f****** state to begin with so they fit right in with this bs. I'm not from the state but I enjoy fishing here. I'm keeping all 16" and lower lol

[Duffman]

I think the real question is here is who has the balls to make their own rules. I'm keeping all 16" and lower lol

Be careful with that thought. Trust me I'm all for it. Have posted here many times I'm keeping a meal regardless of regs. That being said, I'm amazed at the amount of enforcement on the water this year......like they are looking for a cash grab

[dakota560]

Put this in the simplest of terms. Any fish stock is increased by one thing only......reproduction. It's reduced by two, mortality (natural or otherwise) and harvest. Twenty years of size increases as a misguided means to manage catch have created a seismic imbalance in the gender composition of SSB and destroyed recruitment strength within the stock. Size increases as NJDEP pointed out in their arguments for retaining this years's 18' size limit increases mortality as does hygrading by commercial operators. That number while impossible to quantify in my opinion is enormous based on the significantly higher wholesale prices larger fluke demand at market.

Only two things will change the trend we're on. An industry closure or reverting back to size limits in the 14 - 15" range allowing the female population to rebuild itself. No amount of quota reduction will compensate for the decimation of recruitment strength brought on by twenty-years of size limit increases and the direct impact that's had on excessive amounts of female fluke being harvested. Closing the season to commercial operations during the September thru November off shore spawn would be a step in the right direction but if the larger fish aren't soon afforded protection the stock will never rebound.

[Mike K]

I think a lot of people are coming to the same conclusion with the fluke regulations.

[Inishmore3]

As was implied in this thread, what needs to be done to save this fishery is have a range of size you can keep. Science proved that the larger fish are females. One dead female is in turn how many babies that will never be born? Countless thousands? I don't know that answer. If you could ONLY keep fish from a certain size to another certain size. That is it. That way the days of putting a trophy on the wall are over. We all have phones, take a damn picture. The big fish go back. It seems to me there is no future for this fishery with the regulations we have had for the last number of years.

There is another problem. All the cries for help are falling on deaf ears. Obama was going to be the savior. Never happened. Trump is now going to save the fluke fishery. Trust me, it's not going to happen. We went the congress route. You wanted Frank Pallone to spend every minute of everyday to save this fishery. It didn't happen and it's not going to happen. Right now Pallone is working on the budget and healthcare and the other issues of the day. Fluke are way down on the list until there is another march or something like that. Then everyone leaves and we go back to healthcare and the Russians and North Korea. Not fluke.

If all the boats go out of business you are talking about a small percentage of jobs. Countless thousands of people lost jobs at big time companies in New Jersey over the years. AT&T alone has cut countless thousands of jobs from New Jersey. They are not alone. I'm sure a number of you on here worked for a big company and went through layoffs.

Mustache Bill's is a very popular diner in Barnegat Light. If the two remaining party boats (CAIII and MBL) shut their doors tomorrow, Mustache Bill's would not go out of business. Barnegat Light Bait and Tackle closed down when we still have four party boats. They didn't run a viable business. I used to fish when John Larson ran the MBL and have fished with and known the folks on the CAIII most of my life. I would be very sad if business had to shut down and so would a number of other folks. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a tiny percentage of the population. These politicians care about other issues.

Once the marches are over. Once the letters have been read. The people who read and have input on this site still care and still talk about it. The people in office walk away and move on. They move on.

Not trying to make anyone angry. Just being realistic. It's very sad all around.

[togzilla]

You keep thinking that ASMFC is trying to manage the fish population and this is not their goal. Based on all the reputable data no one in their right mind would enact regulations that force anglers to only take larger breeding female fish thus reducing future spawning classes. However, if the goal of ASMFC was to reduce or eliminate recreational fishing because they are politically motivated by environmental groups like PETA what better way of achieving their goal than by destroying the recreational fishing industry by forcing those business to go out of business. Big govt. wins again. Think about it.