NJMFC Meeting 5/17 - Fluke Regulations

[Angler Paul]

The next New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council meeting will be at 4 PM on Wednesday, 5/17 at the Avalon Community Center locate at 3001 Avalon Rd., Avalon, NJ 08202. The Council will either support or reject Commissioner Martin’s recommended 2017 fluke regulations at that time as that is the only action available to them to put a regulation in place at this meeting. The option that will be recommended by Commissioner Martin after lengthy negotiations with the National Marine Fisheries service is a 3 fish bag limit at 18 inch with a 104 day season that will begin on 5/25 and extend through 9/5. This option includes a 17 inch size limit for Delaware Bay and a 16 inch size limit for the shore based anglers at Island Beach State Park with the same seasons. These negotiations were entered into after the ASMFC voted for a 19 inch size limit with a 3 fish bag limit and a 128 day season that could have begun on 5/20 and ended on 9/24. The option included an 18 inch size limit for Delaware Bay and a 17 inch size limit for the shore based anglers at Island Beach State Park with the same seasons. The negotiations were initiated by the recreational fishing groups who went to Commissioner Martin and asked him to maintain the current 2016 regulations even though this would result in New Jersey going out of compliance. If we are declared out of compliance, not only do we shut down the recreational fishery but the commercial fishery would also be shut down.

Earlier this year, JCAA discussed and supported going out of compliance by maintaining the 2016 regulations. JCAA was represented in the conference calls with Commissioner Martin that kept us informed about the negotiations and we were encouraged to offer our input. The final negotiated compromise was not released until Tuesday, May 9. On May 10 this compromise was presented to ASMFC. The New Jersey Marine Fisheries Council will vote on Wednesday. Given the quick timelines, JCAA does not have time for a formal meeting that would allow club representatives to poll their clubs. JCAA’s commitment to a democratic process will not allow us to change a position without that General Membership vote. Our initial position to stay status quo with the 2016 regulations and support going out of compliance is the only formal position of JCAA. JCAA is encouraging each club to poll their members, develop their own position and attend the meeting on Wednesday night to express it. Individuals are also encouraged to attend this meeting and voice their opinions.
Paul Haertel JCAA Board Member/ Past President

[Rocky]

Am am debating if I should attend this meeting or bang my head against a wall.
The frustration never ends with this fishery management system that we have. :mad:

[Sharkyispy]

Here is my .02. The people who are currently running these two organizations need to be removed from their positions for the abuse they are inflicting on the livelihoods of many people in this industry. Deaf ears? they have them and do not want to hear any opinions, let's be realistic here.....This must have \ needs higher powers to get involved, not fugazzi local meetings that have done NOTHING, NOTHING to stop this! They( higher powers) need to save the industry from what I am and will continue to call decimation....Scientific data is out dated, there are no new or updated results to show what the current status of the fishery is. And now add in the sea bass? A ********joke!!! I want to know the last time a committee member went out to see the populations of either species? Prove to me they have first hand knowledge and then Maybe, MAYBE I'll buy into it....til then? The organizations who stated they would fight til the end for this and now held hostages with the threat of compliance???? And smaller season with smaller bag limit and even larger fish??? What the hell is that? DO as we say or else!!!! I realize this is a rant but I'll say I have personally posted to Donald Trump twice today ( for what it's worth ) to get involved and act on this....NOW...The current regs are not acceptable!

[jakesdad]

It's so nice that the meeting is at a convenient time and a central location in the state. They make it so many of us that work cannot attend.

I have been attending many of the meetings, and at the last one in Galloway I left with some hope that our commissioners had some stones. Every time we are threatened we cave in. How about Bob Martin say we go status quo, and if Uncle Sam deems us out, just don't enforce the Federal guidelines in state waters.

What will they do send the National Guard or State police after us?

It' time our elected officials stand up for us. You hear this Mr. Christie!

[Ttmako]

Mike
Thank you for speaking out. We all need to do more of that kind of thing.
I personally have been dealing with both booker and Macarturs office.
They both promised to help. Whole booker sort of disappeared, MacArthur flat out lied to me. I will never forget this carpet bagging piece of shit. I will now make it my life long mission to ensure he is not reelected.
I urge everyone on this board to remember how these 2 politicians failed to deliver on our behalf. We asked for help, told them what to do, educated them, and they did NOTHING!
They are going to feel like shit when they blew an election because they wouldn't meet with Wilbur Ross. This should have been a slam dunk for these guys.

[Sharkyispy]

It's so nice that the meeting is at a convenient time and a central location in the state. They make it so many of us that work cannot attend.

I have been attending many of the meetings, and at the last one in Galloway I left with some hope that our commissioners had some stones. Every time we are threatened we cave in. How about Bob Martin say we go status quo, and if Uncle Sam deems us out, just don't enforce the Federal guidelines in state waters.

What will they do send the National Guard or State police after us?

It' time our elected officials stand up for us. You hear this Mr. Christie!

The reason for my rant...you left with HOPE....there is no HOPE in a plan and these people could give a SH$! less what we think. Clearly, CLEARLY it DOES NOT matter to them what the outcome is.....Pathetic.....

[jakesdad]

Where are the party and charter captains on this. You only hear what individual
Fishing organizations have come up with.

The majority of saltwater fishing in this state is between Barnegat and Sandy Hook. These captains cannot possibly make a meeting in Avalon at 4pm, as well as most private boaters from these ports. What is it going to take to wake these people up.

They showed us their numbers at the Galloway meeting, we showed them how if read properly we could reduce the size limit and increase the creel per day. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see it.

[captain george angler]

I will dock at 2:00 PM and make the drive to give them my 2 cents. Avalon says it all and so will fillet and release. George Angler

[hartattack]

I'm going, who's with me ?

[Inishmore3]

Trump isn't helping? I thought folks said he would......

[Ice Cream Bill]

4pm meeting down in Avalon, NJ. Why not just make it in Cape May for all of us? How convenient! The same stuff happens every year with the MTA in New York when they suggest raising subway/bus fares and bridge tolls. Meetings are scheduled for public comment with no positive results. Fares are raised and the public gets screwed--same with our recreational fishing regulations.

[TerriMc223]

Avalon is a better choice for a fisheries meeting than say Trenton. At least it is at the Jersey Shore.
The 4:00 start does make the meeting possible for charter and head boat personnel who are done by mid afternoon.
The 4:00 start also allows for attendance by two important demographics: 1) school/college age anglers ( especially school based fishing clubs) who just might have to bring a parent or two with them and 2) retired senior anglers (who have the highest percentage of registered and active voters.)

Yes, we will be most likely be forced to accept a fluke season that none of us are remotely happy with.
However, if the only choices are 3 @18" shorter season or 3@19" longer season, I vote for 3@19".

[dakota560]

Haven't posted in a while but here's my thoughts about where we are and what the future holds in store. The proposals on the table are nothing more than a continuation of the continued mismanagement of this fishery which landed us in the mess we're in initially. I've shared a number of posts using NMFS's own data which creates a compelling case that their management philosophy of the summer flounder fishery is not addressing the problem it's in fact causing it. The 25 year trends their own data reflects couldn't be more revealing. Yet NMFS, ASMFC continue down the same path of cutting quotas and slashing catch. Why because they can. This is the text book case of politics at work. Washington has the power and everything else I'm afraid to say is just noise. All about power, greed and some where along the line politicians and committee members getting their pockets lined.

A few facts. NMFS / ASMFC and others adamantly say the problem with a declining SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) is we continue to over harvest the resource. Again keep in mind this is based on NMFS's data arrived at from their own science. Over the period 1989 and 2003 when SSB increased by 600%, total catch (commercial and recreational) averaged ~50% of SSB. That's the average. In 1991 - 108%, 1992 - 100%, 1993 - 81%, 1994 - 70%. At these levels of catch, SSB was skyrocketing higher because we still had adequate recruitment (reproduction) to not only sustain but grow SSB. In 2015, the last year of reported numbers from NMFS, total catch was 21% of SSB! When numbers are published for SSB in '16 and '17, there's no reason to believe or data to suggest that percentage won't decline to the 15% range or lower.

So here's the million dollar question for all the committee members, politicians, government agencies, self proclaimed conservation pundits like Charles Witek (whose thoughts and ideas represent precisely why the fishery is collapsing), why is the summer flounder spawning stock biomass continuing it's decline when catch totals as a percentage of the biomass itself have been cut by almost 70% on average? And add to that when the harvest percentage was 300 - 400% higher than today, SSB increased by 600% at those higher catch percentages. Possession limits were larger, size limits were lower yet SSB exploded higher.

So what's changed? REPRODUCTION. Why has it changed? WE'RE OVER-HARVESTING FEMALES PRIMARILY DUE TO CONTINUED REGULATORY SIZE INCREASES. SSB recruitment strength has been destroyed and is continuing it's decline. It's down over 80% over the last 20 years! That is a startling statistic which continues to fly under the radar screen. NMFS's continued emphasis on reducing catch by mandating higher size limits has crippled this fishery. 2016 continued down that path, '17 is continuing down that path, '18 proposed further cuts through again size limit increases will continue down that path. Why, two reasons. NMFS has the power to do so under MSA. Second if they shift gears with their management ideology of this fishery now by default they'll admit they've been wrong with these increases all these years. They won't put themselves in that position.

Here's my prediction. SSB will continue it's ~13 year decline, recruitment number will continue their precarious ~22 year decline. 2016 and 2017 will add to that as will 2018 if NMFS follows their same philosophy toward the management of this fishery. NMFS won't introduce size and sex into their models until they approve it through Peer Review. That won't be until '18 at earliest which means the introduction of a slot size in possession limit regulations won't happen until 2019 at earliest. That means SSB and recruitment will continue their declining trend lines over 4 more years from the last reported numbers in 2015. This will force "Emergency Measures" to be adopted under MSA which for all practical purposes means an industry closure. Mark this post, it's going to happen.

NMFS knows their wrong but won't admit it unless it comes from them. In three to four years, they'll announce based on THEIR findings, they've uncovered the fact that too many female summer flounder are being harvested and they'll introduce slots but by then it'll be too late. GAME OVER! This is the political conundrum we find ourselves in. Don't blame organizations like RFA, SSFFF and others who are diligently fighting the battle. This is all about David and Goliath and you know who David is in this mess and unfortunately this time someone stole his slingshot.

The data is there as clear as day highlighting the problems NMFS's management philosophy has created and the solution is fairly simple BUT politics won't allow it. The resource is being absolutely destroyed by the governing bodies tasked with protecting it and we're being asked to pay the price! I'm not one to not comply with regulations but that's one check personally I'm not willing to write. And only because accepting the proposed regulations is by default accepting the fact we have no say in this matter and regulations I know are crippling the fishery are our only option. If it means complete anarchy on the water, someone needs to take a stance.

[Rocky]

Haven't posted in a while but here's my thoughts about where we are and what the future holds in store. The proposals on the table are nothing more than a continuation of the continued mismanagement of this fishery which landed us in the mess we're in initially. I've shared a number of posts using NMFS's own data which creates a compelling case that their management philosophy of the summer flounder fishery is not addressing the problem it's in fact causing it. The 25 year trends their own data reflects couldn't be more revealing. Yet NMFS, ASMFC continue down the same path of cutting quotas and slashing catch. Why because they can. This is the text book case of politics at work. Washington has the power and everything else I'f afraid to say is just noise. All about power, greed and some where along the line politicians and committee members getting their pockets lined.

A few facts. NMFS / ASMFC and others adamantly say the problem with a declining SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) is we continue to over harvest the resource. Again keep in mind this is based on NMFS's data arrived at from their own science. Over the period 1989 and 2003 when SSB increased by 600%, total catch (commercial and recreational) averaged ~50% of SSB. That's the average. In 1991 - 108%, 1992 - 100%, 1993 - 81%, 1994 - 70%. At these levels of catch, SSB was skyrocketing higher because we still had adequate recruitment (reproduction) to not only sustain but grow SSB. In 2015, the last year of reported numbers from NMFS, total catch was 21% of SSB! When numbers are published for SSB in '16 and '17, there's no reason to believe or data to suggest that percentage won't decline to the 15% range or lower.

So here's the million dollar question for all the committee members, politicians, government agencies, self proclaimed conversation pundits like Charles Witek (whose thoughts and ideas represent precisely why the fishery is collapsing), why is the summer flounder spawning stock biomass continuing it's decline when catch totals as a percentage of the biomass itself have been cut by almost 70% on average? And add to that when the harvest percentage was 300 - 400% higher than today, SSB increased by 600% at those higher catch percentages. Possession limits were larger, size limits were larger yet SSB exploded higher.

So what's changed? REPRODUCTION. Why has it changed? WE'RE OVER-HARVESTING FEMALES PRIMARILY DUE TO CONTINUED REGULATORY SIZE INCREASES. SSB recruitment strength has been destroyed and is continuing it's decline. It's down over 80% over the last 20 years! That is a startling statistic which continues to fly under the radar screen. NMFS's continued emphasis on reducing catch by mandating higher size limits has crippled this fishery. 2016 continued down that path, '17 is continuing down that path, '18 proposed further cuts through again size limit increases will continue down that path. Why, two reasons. NMFS has the power to do so under MSA. Second if they shift gears with their management ideology of this fishery now by default they admit they've been wrong with these increases all these years. They won't put themselves in that position.

Here's my prediction. SSB will continue it's ~13 year decline, recruitment number will continue their precarious ~22 year decline. 2016 and 2017 will add to that as will 2018 if NMFS follows their same philosophy toward the management of this fishery. NMFS won't introduce size and sex into their models until they approve it through Peer Review. That won't be until '18 at earliest which means the introduction of a slot size in possession limit regulations won't happen until 2019 at earliest. That means SSB and recruitment will continue their declining trend lines over 4 more years from the last reported numbers in 2015. This will force "Emergency Measures" to be adopted under MSA which for all practical purposes means an industry closure. Mark this post, it's going to happen.

NMFS knows their wrong but won't admit it unless it comes from them. In three to four years, they'll announce based on THEIR findings, they've uncovered the fact that too many female summer flounder are being harvested and they'll introduce slots but by then it'll be too late. GAME OVER! This is the political conundrum we find ourselves in. Don't blame organizations like RFA, SSFFF and others who are diligently fighting the battle. This is all about David and Goliath and you know who David is in this mess and unfortunately this time someone stole his slingshot.

The data is there as clear as day highlighting the problems NMFS's management philosophy has created and the solution is fairly simple BUT politics won't allow it. The resource is being absolutely destroyed by the governing bodies tasked with protecting it and we're being asked to pay the price! I'm not one to not comply with regulations but that's one check personally I'm not willing to write. And only because accepting the proposed regulations is by default accepting the fact we have no say in this matter and regulations I know are crippling the fishery are our only option. If it means complete anarchy on the water, someone needs to take a stance.

God Bless you for making sense out of this disaster. The people who are making the regs are driving the bus with all of us and our fishery over a cliff.

[Rocky]

When will our fishery managers admit the truth, or be replaced for incompetence?

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18449435_10209542094095440_3814549911973763618_o.j pg?oh=77d4d73020fe98767091ef222f4f7831&oe=5974B09C

[captain george angler]

I am calling the Div of fish and game tomorrow and objecting to a meeting that is so important being held so far away from the northern fleet. You watch what they push through at this meeting. They were to fight for us and go out of compliance if needed. Complaining here does nothing. Call someone tomorrow.feed up Captain George Angler.

[Joey Dah Fish]

Avalon ? The furthest place away from the fisherman and the fleets. Hmmmm I wonder why?

[GDubya07]

Haven't posted in a while but here's my thoughts about where we are and what the future holds in store. The proposals on the table are nothing more than a continuation of the continued mismanagement of this fishery which landed us in the mess we're in initially. I've shared a number of posts using NMFS's own data which creates a compelling case that their management philosophy of the summer flounder fishery is not addressing the problem it's in fact causing it. The 25 year trends their own data reflects couldn't be more revealing. Yet NMFS, ASMFC continue down the same path of cutting quotas and slashing catch. Why because they can. This is the text book case of politics at work. Washington has the power and everything else I'm afraid to say is just noise. All about power, greed and some where along the line politicians and committee members getting their pockets lined.

A few facts. NMFS / ASMFC and others adamantly say the problem with a declining SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) is we continue to over harvest the resource. Again keep in mind this is based on NMFS's data arrived at from their own science. Over the period 1989 and 2003 when SSB increased by 600%, total catch (commercial and recreational) averaged ~50% of SSB. That's the average. In 1991 - 108%, 1992 - 100%, 1993 - 81%, 1994 - 70%. At these levels of catch, SSB was skyrocketing higher because we still had adequate recruitment (reproduction) to not only sustain but grow SSB. In 2015, the last year of reported numbers from NMFS, total catch was 21% of SSB! When numbers are published for SSB in '16 and '17, there's no reason to believe or data to suggest that percentage won't decline to the 15% range or lower.

So here's the million dollar question for all the committee members, politicians, government agencies, self proclaimed conversation pundits like Charles Witek (whose thoughts and ideas represent precisely why the fishery is collapsing), why is the summer flounder spawning stock biomass continuing it's decline when catch totals as a percentage of the biomass itself have been cut by almost 70% on average? And add to that when the harvest percentage was 300 - 400% higher than today, SSB increased by 600% at those higher catch percentages. Possession limits were larger, size limits were lower yet SSB exploded higher.

So what's changed? REPRODUCTION. Why has it changed? WE'RE OVER-HARVESTING FEMALES PRIMARILY DUE TO CONTINUED REGULATORY SIZE INCREASES. SSB recruitment strength has been destroyed and is continuing it's decline. It's down over 80% over the last 20 years! That is a startling statistic which continues to fly under the radar screen. NMFS's continued emphasis on reducing catch by mandating higher size limits has crippled this fishery. 2016 continued down that path, '17 is continuing down that path, '18 proposed further cuts through again size limit increases will continue down that path. Why, two reasons. NMFS has the power to do so under MSA. Second if they shift gears with their management ideology of this fishery now by default they admit they've been wrong with these increases all these years. They won't put themselves in that position.

Here's my prediction. SSB will continue it's ~13 year decline, recruitment number will continue their precarious ~22 year decline. 2016 and 2017 will add to that as will 2018 if NMFS follows their same philosophy toward the management of this fishery. NMFS won't introduce size and sex into their models until they approve it through Peer Review. That won't be until '18 at earliest which means the introduction of a slot size in possession limit regulations won't happen until 2019 at earliest. That means SSB and recruitment will continue their declining trend lines over 4 more years from the last reported numbers in 2015. This will force "Emergency Measures" to be adopted under MSA which for all practical purposes means an industry closure. Mark this post, it's going to happen.

NMFS knows their wrong but won't admit it unless it comes from them. In three to four years, they'll announce based on THEIR findings, they've uncovered the fact that too many female summer flounder are being harvested and they'll introduce slots but by then it'll be too late. GAME OVER! This is the political conundrum we find ourselves in. Don't blame organizations like RFA, SSFFF and others who are diligently fighting the battle. This is all about David and Goliath and you know who David is in this mess and unfortunately this time someone stole his slingshot.

The data is there as clear as day highlighting the problems NMFS's management philosophy has created and the solution is fairly simple BUT politics won't allow it. The resource is being absolutely destroyed by the governing bodies tasked with protecting it and we're being asked to pay the price! I'm not one to not comply with regulations but that's one check personally I'm not willing to write. And only because accepting the proposed regulations is by default accepting the fact we have no say in this matter and regulations I know are crippling the fishery are our only option. If it means complete anarchy on the water, someone needs to take a stance.

Dakota , Thank you for putting this in terms that everyone could understand even my big dome head

GDubs-:cool:

[Ry609]

Haven't posted in a while but here's my thoughts about where we are and what the future holds in store. The proposals on the table are nothing more than a continuation of the continued mismanagement of this fishery which landed us in the mess we're in initially. I've shared a number of posts using NMFS's own data which creates a compelling case that their management philosophy of the summer flounder fishery is not addressing the problem it's in fact causing it. The 25 year trends their own data reflects couldn't be more revealing. Yet NMFS, ASMFC continue down the same path of cutting quotas and slashing catch. Why because they can. This is the text book case of politics at work. Washington has the power and everything else I'm afraid to say is just noise. All about power, greed and some where along the line politicians and committee members getting their pockets lined.

A few facts. NMFS / ASMFC and others adamantly say the problem with a declining SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) is we continue to over harvest the resource. Again keep in mind this is based on NMFS's data arrived at from their own science. Over the period 1989 and 2003 when SSB increased by 600%, total catch (commercial and recreational) averaged ~50% of SSB. That's the average. In 1991 - 108%, 1992 - 100%, 1993 - 81%, 1994 - 70%. At these levels of catch, SSB was skyrocketing higher because we still had adequate recruitment (reproduction) to not only sustain but grow SSB. In 2015, the last year of reported numbers from NMFS, total catch was 21% of SSB! When numbers are published for SSB in '16 and '17, there's no reason to believe or data to suggest that percentage won't decline to the 15% range or lower.

So here's the million dollar question for all the committee members, politicians, government agencies, self proclaimed conversation pundits like Charles Witek (whose thoughts and ideas represent precisely why the fishery is collapsing), why is the summer flounder spawning stock biomass continuing it's decline when catch totals as a percentage of the biomass itself have been cut by almost 70% on average? And add to that when the harvest percentage was 300 - 400% higher than today, SSB increased by 600% at those higher catch percentages. Possession limits were larger, size limits were lower yet SSB exploded higher.

So what's changed? REPRODUCTION. Why has it changed? WE'RE OVER-HARVESTING FEMALES PRIMARILY DUE TO CONTINUED REGULATORY SIZE INCREASES. SSB recruitment strength has been destroyed and is continuing it's decline. It's down over 80% over the last 20 years! That is a startling statistic which continues to fly under the radar screen. NMFS's continued emphasis on reducing catch by mandating higher size limits has crippled this fishery. 2016 continued down that path, '17 is continuing down that path, '18 proposed further cuts through again size limit increases will continue down that path. Why, two reasons. NMFS has the power to do so under MSA. Second if they shift gears with their management ideology of this fishery now by default they admit they've been wrong with these increases all these years. They won't put themselves in that position.

Here's my prediction. SSB will continue it's ~13 year decline, recruitment number will continue their precarious ~22 year decline. 2016 and 2017 will add to that as will 2018 if NMFS follows their same philosophy toward the management of this fishery. NMFS won't introduce size and sex into their models until they approve it through Peer Review. That won't be until '18 at earliest which means the introduction of a slot size in possession limit regulations won't happen until 2019 at earliest. That means SSB and recruitment will continue their declining trend lines over 4 more years from the last reported numbers in 2015. This will force "Emergency Measures" to be adopted under MSA which for all practical purposes means an industry closure. Mark this post, it's going to happen.

NMFS knows their wrong but won't admit it unless it comes from them. In three to four years, they'll announce based on THEIR findings, they've uncovered the fact that too many female summer flounder are being harvested and they'll introduce slots but by then it'll be too late. GAME OVER! This is the political conundrum we find ourselves in. Don't blame organizations like RFA, SSFFF and others who are diligently fighting the battle. This is all about David and Goliath and you know who David is in this mess and unfortunately this time someone stole his slingshot.

The data is there as clear as day highlighting the problems NMFS's management philosophy has created and the solution is fairly simple BUT politics won't allow it. The resource is being absolutely destroyed by the governing bodies tasked with protecting it and we're being asked to pay the price! I'm not one to not comply with regulations but that's one check personally I'm not willing to write. And only because accepting the proposed regulations is by default accepting the fact we have no say in this matter and regulations I know are crippling the fishery are our only option. If it means complete anarchy on the water, someone needs to take a stance.

I'd vote for you to give all presentations at future meetings on behalf of all recreational fishermen...and then for president! lol

[SaltLife1980]

I'm going, who's with me ?

Its a 2 and half hour drive for me. But im thinking of taking the day and making the drive