Looks like we should have taken 3 @ 19"

[DoubleG]

http://www.thefisherman.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=1717&ParentCat=19

So now we get 3 fluke at 18" with a shortened season, 104 days. May 25th - Sept 5th.

I don't know about you guys but 3 @ 19" with 128 day season sounds better to me than when we ended up with.

Oh well, can't wait until the 25th so I can get out there! Good luck y'all!

[dales529]

This still has to be approved by the Technical Committee. I suspect it will be but its not official yet.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Mixed emotions about 3 @ 19 with a longer season or 3 @ 18 with a shorter season, pick your poison.

With 3 @ 18 I think people have a better chance of keeping some fish for the table. However 3 @ 19 with a longer season allows people to fish more, albeit for larger fish...

Either way we're still taking it in the shorts and things need to change.

I would bet the office of the Secretary of State did not want to deal with an appeal and told NOAA find some way to work this out with NJ so everyone had to compromise something.

I think Jim Hutchinson summed it up nicely in his article when he wrote " It’s been said that a good compromise is one from which all parties leave equally dissatisfied"

[Bigadam119]

I think we got the lesser of the two evils. The fishing seems to almost shut down after Labor Day anyway.

[Man Workin]

I would like to say that it is a positive sign for our fisheries when people feel so strongly about the issues at hand. My opinion is that it is a decent compromise if it goes through. I can see how the shorter season is going to reduce the income for charter/head boat fleets, and can also agree that the mortality rate will be reduced. Fishermen have been complying with these reductions for years; it can only be a matter of time before their arguement that these nessisary restrictions we are fighting through have worked and they should be weakened.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Just heard from Dales.... The 3 @ 18 went to a vote and it was turned down. As it stands now, they said we need to agree to 3 @ 19 with the longer season or we will be deemed out of compliance.

Not sure what's going to happen.... I guess we continue with our appeal and take our chances or we fall in line....

Much more to follow here.

[Rocky]

We need this to come to a head and if we just keep taking the scraps that they throw us it never will.

[dales529]

Just heard from Dales.... The 3 @ 18 went to a vote and it was turned down. As it stands now, they said we need to agree to 3 @ 19 with the longer season or we will be deemed out of compliance.

Not sure what's going to happen.... I guess we continue with our appeal and take our chances or we fall in line....

Much more to follow here.

Gerry, didn't mean to mislead you if I did. Its not that the 3@18" 104 days was voted down. What the motion that passed states is that we have until May 21 to institute option 5 OR meet conservation equivalency with the 3@18" 104 day season. That is now up to the technical committee to approve or disapprove next week. If they disapprove it than whats next is kind of open at this point.
By May 21 if we don't institute regulations that meet the mandates than a letter goes out saying NJ is out of compliance. Again what happens then will be forthcoming as it happens.
So once again we wait until next week before anything is official.

[Ttmako]

I was listening this morning and tried to do a play by play.
NJ offered 3@18 and would rescind out appeal.
The whole process is very confusing.
Again, Adam Nowalsky did an excellent job in representing on our behalf. We are truly lucky to have him on the council.

I'm not sure how this will play out but it seems the council is determined to find us out of compliance.

The one thing that is crystal clear, is NJ Rep. Tom Macarthur failed to help our cause. He was repeatedly asked to help with our cause and he failed to show us any support. He did sign 2 letter on our behalf, but never came to a meeting or advocated to Commerce Secretary Ross on our behalf.
The guy flat out lied and is not worthy of being reelected.

[Rocky]

The one thing that is crystal clear, is NJ Rep. Tom Macarthur failed to help our cause. He was repeatedly asked to help with our cause and he failed to show us any support. He did sign 2 letter on our behalf, but never came to a meeting or advocated to Commerce Secretary Ross on our behalf.
The guy flat out lied and is not worthy of being reelected.

Are you 100% positive that Macarthur didn't contact the commerce secretary?

[Sharkyispy]

Spoke with a capt on the water today. This will very critical to the fishing boat business and communities......Sad...

[Ttmako]

Are you 100% positive that Macarthur didn't contact the commerce secretary?

He wrote a letter along with a few other representatives.
I have been in contact with his office pretty frequently. I pleaded with him to go and meet with Mr. Ross. I told him who to speak with to become informed. It was all teed up for him. All he had to do was show up.
So, yes other than signing a letter that someone else wrote, I m confident he didn't meet with Mr. Ross.
In addition, last night I received a call from his office and they told me and I quote "there is nothing he can do to help you".
What did his office tell you?

[Chris G]

Any news on sea bass? Did I read correctly that we are getting royally screwed in the fall???? Again???

[Rocky]

Any news on sea bass? Did I read correctly that we are getting royally screwed in the fall???? Again???

Yep. 5 fish, a shorter season, and no lube.

[Walleyed]

Yep. 5 fish, a shorter season, and no lube.

That's going to kill the December offshore sea bass trips....no one is going to want to pay that much money for 5 fish.

[Chris G]

Yep. 5 fish, a shorter season, and no lube.

Wow. What a joke.

Pathetic.

[Rocky]

This is why the new Commerce Secretary HAS to get involved.

[Detour66]

3 @ 19" is not acceptable ...3 @ 18 is not acceptable! 5 @ 18" was better 8 @ 17" even better. They are chipping away at us. Do I want to keep more fish than I can eat....No! But I do want to bring some fish home. I say recreational fisherman should consider somehow joining forces with the NRA then we will have lobbying power. It would benefit both parties. Time to make a stand. While we can!

[Flukemeister1]

What are the consequences of being out of compliance?

[togzilla]

This is not about managing the species but managing the anglers who target them out of existence. They know exactly what they are doing. How many party boats and charter boats will call it quits after this season under the proposed 3 fish at 18 inches? What are they going to fish for after Sept. 4th? Once the boats, marina, tackle stores call it quits they are not coming back. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of these ASMFC meetings when it is just those pricks talking amongst themselves and patting themselves on the back for slowly and systematically destroying the recreational fishery.

[Ttmako]

This is not about managing the species but managing the anglers who target them out of existence. They know exactly what they are doing. How many party boats and charter boats will call it quits after this season under the proposed 3 fish at 18 inches? What are they going to fish for after Sept. 4th? Once the boats, marina, tackle stores call it quits they are not coming back. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of these ASMFC meetings when it is just those pricks talking amongst themselves and patting themselves on the back for slowly and systematically destroying the recreational fishery.

This is an excellent point and one that I hadn't really thought about. I think you may be onto something here.
That being said, there are some ASMFC members who are truly recreational fisherman. Yes, some of them are either Environmental zealots or commercial oriented. I think we should take a look at the committees underneath the council, specifically, the SSC and TC. These are more than likely environmental lunatics with an agenda closely matched to what you said. If you dig deep enough, I'm sure Pew and the EDF are providing some sort of funding to them.

[dales529]

What are the consequences of being out of compliance?

July 1 start date, 2 fish at 20" and I believe a 59 day season

[Ry609]

July 1 start date, 2 fish at 20" and I believe a 59 day season

I'd be curious to see who would be sent here to enforce that given the NJDEP's position on the matter. Both of these options suck, but I think I would've rather had the longer season than the 1" less size if the bag limit was going to stay at 3.

[henro]

July 1 start date, 2 fish at 20" and I believe a 59 day season

https://m.popkey.co/88908e/87wQl.gif

[Ttmako]

Given the hard work and effort The NJ DEP put into this debacle and the confusion this is causing to recreational anglers, I would venture many DEP officers maybe somewhat more lenient with this years rules.
Just my guess.

[Ttmako]

For the record,
I don't think we should have stuck with 3@19".
This was certainly worth a fight and the effort many put forth.
This still isn't over.
There is a rather lengthy protocol that needs to be followed when out of compliance.

[frugalfisherman]

Either way i,m not throwing back a fluke alive!!

[Flygaff]

What planet do these people come from. There is so much data to support an increase in recreational fishing and they just don't get it. It has to be the commercial lobbies that fuel these issues. I am so fed up. For me. I pay taxes , I served my country in the military. If I want to keep fish. I WILL. I encourage everyone else to follow suit. How much damage to the environment could I possibly cause if I bring home 8 fluke, or 18 Sea Bass? This is just crazy. I have seen the commercials several times dump their nets. Dead fish as far as you can see. How about limit them to pounds caught and no throw backs. If all the come up with are mullet, than that is what they get. They throw back fish because they can continue fishing and catch a more valuable species. I am beginning to hate my own country due to the corruption that is so rampant.

Just my 2 cents. of course it is now only worth 0.002 cents.

Good luck out there everyone and be safe

[Abrasion]

If you operate a charter boat, 3@18" and a shorter season just killed you. 3@19 with a longer season made more sense. Let's be honest, this outcome is a failure all around.

[captmark]

Gentleman, look at this way, Fluke 3 @ 19 or 18" and the Sea Bass being cut to 5 fish. Take a look at the docks in your area, more and more head boats are being sold, more charter boats are leaving (us included) if you need proof just in Point Pleasant alone, Cock Robin sold, Bogans fleet reduced, the Islander sold many other 6 packs have either folded or sold yeah some new ones have started but it is a fact they dont care about this industry that helps support other local businesses. Many of us filled out the survey that they wanted to see if the cut backs would hurt us and local businesses, I guess that went in the trash.
Just my 1 cent oh they took the other cent

[Hunter 2]

I'm thinking Combo fluking and parasailing trips this summer.

I truly feel bad for the full time Captains , tackleshops, sandwich/ breakfast shops, lodging establishments, etc. etc

[WaltNJ]

The attack on recreational fishing has been going on for 20+ years. "They" are relentless. When the rules get to the point where they are ridiculous...people simply stop following the rules. We, collectively, on this site are "rule followers" for the most part...but I can't count how many times I've seen certain people out on the hook surf fishing keeping every single thing that bites their line...or guys in Trout Conservation Areas fishing with salmon eggs throwing everything they catch in a mesh back under a rock. Heck, I even had a person run into the surf in 55 degree water with jeans on because I threw back a short bass. He couldn't believe I threw a fish back!

While these rules will exist, regardless of what rules get adopted...how are they planning on enforcement? Once in a blue moon there's a guy with a measuring board at the dock checking boats. Heck, he asked me once if I caught anything. I said, "No luck today...maybe next time." That was it...he moved on. I know that sometimes they check...but its pretty rare overall.

Regarding charters, party boats, and tackle shops...what is anyone going to fish for between September 5 and say mid-October? And are guys going to really run boats for ONE tautog?

Not to mention all the "good things" that would come out of making Sandy Hook Bay some sort of federal sanctuary or whatever term they're scamming us with these days.

I'm sure people put lots of time into fighting for our rights as recreational fisherman, but it's a numbers game. Only something like 3% of the population of NJ are fisherman...and not all of those are saltwater fisherman. Small voting block equals little (if any) attention from the rule-makers. Yeah, there may be a guy from time to time who shows some support, but that support usually fades out as you follow our interests up the chain of bureaucracy.

And guess why the commercial guys can dump literally tons of dead fish per day. It's because of the insatiable demand for fish by the public...mostly the non-fishing public who, many times, don't want to know how the sausage is made as long as they get their red snapper presented properly...or their blackened swordfish served just right.

And if you think this whole "free" Saltwater Registry thing doesn't have some sort of intention to eventually charge another "tax" otherwise called a "license", you need to get your head out of the sand. Let's not forget about the excise tax already placed on our fishing purchases.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a battle over preserving our rights, but my expectations are pretty low. This incremental erosion of our right to "pursue happiness" how we see fit is remarkable.

Welcome to today's United States...where common sense is no longer common.

And I conclude this rant...unapologetically.

[bunker dunker]

i can remember when the 1st fluke size limit came out and all the old timers said
that if we give in they will just continue to take.that was 40 some years ago and yes they are still taking.what have they "given" to us rec fishing peep????
what have they done to help the rec fishing in this state?????.

[Ttmako]

Lets be clear:
1-Addendum XViii, never included an option for 3@18 with a shortened season. This was a last ditch effort to avoid being held out of compliance.
2-The position that was being advocated was to not change anything until the science was improved.
3-This still isn't approved and final regs are not published.

We took a stand and fought. To say we should have rolled over is insulting! We need to do something, anything to stop this BS. I'll continue to fight, thank you very much. I hope you enjoy the benefit.

[bunker dunker]

explain benefit???what benefit???

[Quin T Rex]

Hello All It was my understanding tha we were going to stay stong with what we believe in, that flawed data was unacceptable. The support we have politically I believe has never been as strong as it is today. My impression was that we would not accept there offers and go out of compliance and let the secretary of commerce handle this issue. As you know the current proposasl would be extemely harmfull to the party,charter, recreational fishing dependedent industries along our coast.We made great progress earlier in the battle,. I see no need to surrender now. Just my opinion..

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

When you receive a survey and it asks " how many paying passengers did you have " and not how many fish you caught it's clear to see where it's headed. Pay to play is coming. Keep posting "LIMITS" in your title fellas, as you can see your limit is headed to zero.

[Capt. Lou]

Finally someone gets it , any dock photos etc can be and will be used against you ! Limits ? Translates into catching to many fish even when the limit is a measley fish or two ! Yaaa this is what it comes down to & pretty soon the limits will be zero . They have taken every opportunity to reduce limits & each time this occurs we lose anglers , business's etc associated with all fisheries !
Flawed fisheries laws or not they have the upper hand ! Just look at what's happened in the last 5 years , you can't even cod fish in the gulf of Maine ! Wait I'm wrong about that I think your allowed 1 August thru Oct .
The stocks in many instances are recovered but we still can't fish , the best parts of seasons are closed maybe we should all take up dog fishing there's a success story that benefits us ! :p:p

[stevelikes2fish]

Facebook & cameras..................every fishermen's worst nightmare............and every agencies greatest intel..................

[Ttmako]

explain benefit???what benefit???

If we don't fight we will not be allowed to fish. We need to draw the line in the sand and prove to them their science is BS.
We are so close.

[Ttmako]

Hello All It was my understanding tha we were going to stay stong with what we believe in, that flawed data was unacceptable. The support we have politically I believe has never been as strong as it is today. My impression was that we would not accept there offers and go out of compliance and let the secretary of commerce handle this issue. As you know the current proposasl would be extemely harmfull to the party,charter, recreational fishing dependedent industries along our coast.We made great progress earlier in the battle,. I see no need to surrender now. Just my opinion..

The political support dried up earlier this spring.
Tom Macarthur bailed on us. If you are in his district, please remember him next election cycle.
You are correct, we need to keep fighting this.

[bunker dunker]

ttmako no disrespect but we have been hearing that for 40 or so years.what have they done for us in those years?????.i'll tell you what they have done......
NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!.

[Joey Dah Fish]

No we should have gone out of compliance. Once again promised a fight once again miserable failure.

[Joey Dah Fish]

This is a complete failure on all levels.

[Capt John]

Hello All It was my understanding tha we were going to stay stong with what we believe in, that flawed data was unacceptable. The support we have politically I believe has never been as strong as it is today. My impression was that we would not accept there offers and go out of compliance and let the secretary of commerce handle this issue. As you know the current proposasl would be extemely harmfull to the party,charter, recreational fishing dependedent industries along our coast.We made great progress earlier in the battle,. I see no need to surrender now. Just my opinion..

My exact sentiment....who the hell caved in? Whatever happened to "enough is enough"? All I heard for weeks was "now that Trump is our president, he'll help us out" ditto with Commerce Secretary Ross..."oh he's pro business, he won't let us down". Where the hell are these guys now and their support? Compromise....BULL****
We either use the support we had at Pt. Pleasant (remember that day guys?) or put our tails between our legs. Horrible development. Starting a charter business in NJ?...think twice all you retirees. 5@18 for 128 and nothing less...NOTHING!

[Oceanroamer]

On a side note, under the circumstances, the Delaware Bay shouldn't get that extra inch smaller fish. Sure they are hurting, but good fishermen still limit easy there. Economic realities of the area? Atlantic County is number one in the nation in foreclosures two years running from casino debacle. So why not inch lower for them? Point is, I don't think in this climate of being screwed, that one area should have lower size and better cut. Just my opinion. Wish it had worked out better so far. It stinks.

[Capt. Lou]

How did the word compromise get interjected into this discussion , there is no compromise , we didn't get the time of day . This outcome if it sticks will be a devastating blow to our shore front businesses . Recreational fishing is in a bad state & we're all at fault ! It's the 11th hour for those who still don't get it !

[Ttmako]

There were 2 choices on the table.
Abide by addendum 28 and have 3@19". The default measure if we didn't go along with would have been 2@21" for July and August.
So the DEP, who has done a great job with issue, in my opinion has offered the MAMFC to do 3@18, with a shorter season.
I never knew 3@18 was an option, but consider the following:
1-it's better than the default measure (2@21) and offers us a better chance to legally keep something.
2-it's better than the NY regs. Remember, they screwed us in 2013.
3-this isn't over. The technical committee still needs to approve our "offer".

If every single person on this site CALLED or were to WRITE to their senator or congressman, they would have to act. The plain hard truth is maybe 30 people from this site actually have made the effort to notify their senators. Shit, we can't even get a load of people to go on a fund raiser for this exact issue.

The shame here is the councils have managed to piss off every NJ bottom fisherman. People are just gonna do whatever they want.

The councils are following the rules set forth by magnuson. The law needs to be changed. The council leadership needs to be change.
Laws get changed when people stand up and demand change. Notify your legislator what you want. They work for us.

[Mako231]

Guess they'll be no party boats left in 2 years

[Inishmore3]

How about Frank Pallone?

[splitshotbb]

Well it looks like i'm done with fluke. It's hard enough trying to go a couple of times on a fixed income. Now 3 fluke not worth it. I'll buy a couple lobster instead. I filled out the survey but do you think that anybody cares if your not able to afford it.

[Abrasion]

If this is the result you'll be the only one patting yourself on the back. This is a failure. The charter businesses and tackle businesses are screwed.


Lets be clear:
1-Addendum XViii, never included an option for 3@18 with a shortened season. This was a last ditch effort to avoid being held out of compliance.
2-The position that was being advocated was to not change anything until the science was improved.
3-This still isn't approved and final regs are not published.

We took a stand and fought. To say we should have rolled over is insulting! We need to do something, anything to stop this BS. I'll continue to fight, thank you very much. I hope you enjoy the benefit.

[Abrasion]

All NJ has to say is the following:

You can implement whatever limits you want on the federal level, just know that we are not going to provide enforcement for a size and bag limit we don't agree with.


Think of it like weed in Colorado.

[Ice Cream Bill]

I've been saltwater fishing for just the past five years, and I'm an active member in four fishing clubs. I've been told by fellow anglers that the fluke regs used to be 10 fish---then reduced to 8 fish---then reduced to 5 fish (which is what I'm familiar with)---now reducing the bag limit to just 3 fish.

Enough is enough! Every year size and bag limits are reduced for fluke and sea bass. The Black Sea bass fishery is alive and well, with fish now being caught as far north as the Gulf of Maine. I participated in sea bass studies this past fall in south Jersey, and pulled up 380 fish on one trip!

Two friends went haddock fishing the past two weeks (on different boats) out of Gloucester, MA where NOAA shut down the cod fisher two years ago. The results: one told me 5:1 ratio of cod to haddock---the other who just went on Thursday, caught a 50/50 split of haddock and cod (including 10-15 lbers.), all which had to be released after being pulled up from 140 ft of water.

Insane! "Worse available science" prevails time and time again.

[SplitShot]

That's because it has more to do Bill with these characters trying to justify their jobs, lifetime salaries, pensions, etc. then them actually caring about the fishery. This makes them look " important " making these decisions!! :rolleyes:

[Gerry Zagorski]

That's because it has more to do Bill with these characters trying to justify their jobs, lifetime salaries, pensions, etc. then them actually caring about the fishery. This makes them look " important " making these decisions!! :rolleyes:

While I don't think anyone is getting rich on the salaries being paid to Fisheries staff, what it creates is more government over site. I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you pay someone to do something, that's what they're going to do....

Having said this, I think all of us can agree that on the surface Fisheries Management is needed to protect the resource and make sure it does not get exploited. Further when the laws like Magnuson were written and passed, most of us thought it was a good idea since it protected the resource. But look what it's morphed into... We are the ones being exploited and the very resource we sought to protect is being held hostage...

You don't need to look too far to find other Government over sites that have gone bad. Healthcare is a perfect example.

Time to take back our country and our fishery and make it work for the people paying the bills around here...