Hate the EPA? Read this.

[fishguy]

Anyone who has ever called anyone in these forums a "tree hugger" should read this article. With an anti-EPA guy heading the EPA and a lot of talk of rolling back rules or eliminating the EPA all together this article should give everyone pause. http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/28/14754660/epa-pollution-climate-change-trump-public-popularity-bipartisan-support
I remember oil sludge balls on the beach from the ships dumping it.
I remember "beach whistles" scattered all over the beaches of Sandy Hook (they were plastic tampon applicators that had been flushed down the toilet)
I remember my elderly neighbor dumping motor oil down the storm drain.
I remember there were almost zero striped bass for a while. I never saw a bald eagle ever until the 90's around here and there were far fewer Osprey.
I remember leaded gasoline how dirty the old 2 stroke outboards were.

I could go on and on but the point is these things I described are a thing of the past. While I agree that sometimes government regulations can be onerous or over reaching I believe 100% that we are better off now than we were 40 years ago because of America's commitment to try and stem the flow of pollution into our environment. The EPA was a crucial aspect of that movement. I believe 100% that if we had done nothing we would have utterly destroyed our fishery. The local waters would be a barren, polluted wasteland filled with sewerage and toxic waste.
Please consider this before backing any sort of plan that de-funds or de-fangs the EPA because the agency played a YUGE part in preserving the fishery we all enjoy now.

[Gerry Zagorski]

While I share your concern for the environment, you need to consider the source of your article... Vox news is owned and founded by this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein who clearly has ties to the Democratic party

Here is a quick excerpt from the link I referenced above.... Note these are Wikepdia's words, not mine

"In February 2007 Klein created a Google Groups forum called "JournoList" for discussing politics and the news media. The forum's membership was controlled by Klein and limited to "several hundred left-leaning bloggers, political reporters, magazine writers, policy wonks and academics".

Lastly and based on my recent observations, the left is very aggressive about casting doubt and fear about all the recent Trump nominees.

Not trying to make this a political post just some observations.

Pass the popcorn please.... I think this post is going to go south in hurry :rolleyes:

[Blind Squirrel]

Anyone who has ever called anyone in these forums a "tree hugger" should read this article. With an anti-EPA guy heading the EPA and a lot of talk of rolling back rules or eliminating the EPA all together this article should give everyone pause. http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/28/14754660/epa-pollution-climate-change-trump-public-popularity-bipartisan-support
I remember oil sludge balls on the beach from the ships dumping it.
I remember "beach whistles" scattered all over the beaches of Sandy Hook (they were plastic tampon applicators that had been flushed down the toilet)
I remember my elderly neighbor dumping motor oil down the storm drain.
I remember there were almost zero striped bass for a while. I never saw a bald eagle ever until the 90's around here and there were far fewer Osprey.
I remember leaded gasoline how dirty the old 2 stroke outboards were.

I could go on and on but the point is these things I described are a thing of the past. While I agree that sometimes government regulations can be onerous or over reaching I believe 100% that we are better off now than we were 40 years ago because of America's commitment to try and stem the flow of pollution into our environment. The EPA was a crucial aspect of that movement. I believe 100% that if we had done nothing we would have utterly destroyed our fishery. The local waters would be a barren, polluted wasteland filled with sewerage and toxic waste.
Please consider this before backing any sort of plan that de-funds or de-fangs the EPA because the agency played a YUGE part in preserving the fishery we all enjoy now.
It's important to understand that the government's job is to regulate human uteruses; it's a governmental overreach to protect our environment from polluters, impose common-sense background checks on the purchasers of firearms, or limit the types of military-style personal WMDs that any "well armed militia" of one may legally possess. :(

[Capt. Debbie]

Now THAT'S FUNNY!



While I share .......

Pass the popcorn please.... I think this post is going to go south in hurry :rolleyes:

[torchee]

All news I don't like is FAKE!
or has an agenda from the other political party.....

Welcome to the future

[fishguy]

While I share your concern for the environment, you need to consider the source of your article... Vox news is owned and founded by this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein who clearly has ties to the Democratic party

Here is a quick excerpt from the link I referenced above.... Note these are Wikepdia's words, not mine

"In February 2007 Klein created a Google Groups forum called "JournoList" for discussing politics and the news media. The forum's membership was controlled by Klein and limited to "several hundred left-leaning bloggers, political reporters, magazine writers, policy wonks and academics".

Lastly and based on my recent observations, the left is very aggressive about casting doubt and fear about all the recent Trump nominees.

Not trying to make this a political post just some observations.

Pass the popcorn please.... I think this post is going to go south in hurry :rolleyes:

First of all, this IS a political post. I realize my source is left leaning but do you doubt any of the facts presented?

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, Gerry you are a climate change denier. You and quite a few other guys on this website seem to believe that it's some type of conspiracy to get funding, an idea that's ridiculously ludicrous when faced with the reality of the science. So it's hard for me to give any weight to any argument you put forth against the EPA. If you deny the many decades of research and 97% of the world's scientists than how can we talk about the EPA?

Lastly, a lot of Trumps nominee's are dead set against the agencies they head.

Scott Pruitt is very obviously in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry, he sued the EPA 13 times and has been open and public about his disdain for the agency he is now in charge of. You might as well appoint John Gotti to run the FBI.

The Energy Secretary said he wanted to abolish the agency all together (if he could only remember which one!)

The head of public education never attended public school, nor have her kids, and she is invested in charter schools and a collection agency that services student loans.

The Attorney General, the chief law enforcement officer in the country, was called a racist by none other than Martin Luther Kings wife and as a result was denied a judgeship back in the 80's. (the evidence seems to hold up that she was right) He also may have perjured himself before Congress. We'll see if he will recuse himself from the investigation I hope is forthcoming.

So I don't think I'm out in left field on this. Center field but a little left because there's nothing but right handed batters coming for the next 4 years.

[Rocky]

First of all, this IS a political post. I realize my source is left leaning but do you doubt any of the facts presented?

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, Gerry you are a climate change denier. You and quite a few other guys on this website seem to believe that it's some type of conspiracy to get funding, an idea that's ridiculously ludicrous when faced with the reality of the science. So it's hard for me to give any weight to any argument you put forth against the EPA. If you deny the many decades of research and 97% of the world's scientists than how can we talk about the EPA?

Lastly, a lot of Trumps nominee's are dead set against the agencies they head.

Scott Pruitt is very obviously in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry, he sued the EPA 13 times and has been open and public about his disdain for the agency he is now in charge of. You might as well appoint John Gotti to run the FBI.

The Energy Secretary said he wanted to abolish the agency all together (if he could only remember which one!)

The head of public education never attended public school, nor have her kids, and she is invested in charter schools and a collection agency that services student loans.

The Attorney General, the chief law enforcement officer in the country, was called a racist by none other than Martin Luther Kings wife and as a result was denied a judgeship back in the 80's. (the evidence seems to hold up that she was right) He also may have perjured himself before Congress. We'll see if he will recuse himself from the investigation I hope is forthcoming.

So I don't think I'm out in left field on this. Center field but a little left because there's nothing but right handed batters coming for the next 4 years.


Yep you made it very political. I guess it is still stinging huh?

[fishguy]

I can't make a post political if it's already a political post. And what's stinking?

[Ttmako]

First of all, this IS a political post. I realize my source is left leaning but do you doubt any of the facts presented?

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, Gerry you are a climate change denier. You and quite a few other guys on this website seem to believe that it's some type of conspiracy to get funding, an idea that's ridiculously ludicrous when faced with the reality of the science. So it's hard for me to give any weight to any argument you put forth against the EPA. If you deny the many decades of research and 97% of the world's scientists than how can we talk about the EPA?

Lastly, a lot of Trumps nominee's are dead set against the agencies they head.

Scott Pruitt is very obviously in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry, he sued the EPA 13 times and has been open and public about his disdain for the agency he is now in charge of. You might as well appoint John Gotti to run the FBI.

The Energy Secretary said he wanted to abolish the agency all together (if he could only remember which one!)

The head of public education never attended public school, nor have her kids, and she is invested in charter schools and a collection agency that services student loans.

The Attorney General, the chief law enforcement officer in the country, was called a racist by none other than Martin Luther Kings wife and as a result was denied a judgeship back in the 80's. (the evidence seems to hold up that she was right) He also may have perjured himself before Congress. We'll see if he will recuse himself from the investigation I hope is forthcoming.

So I don't think I'm out in left field on this. Center field but a little left because there's nothing but right handed batters coming for the next 4 years.

But having guys on the MAMFC and ASMFC take money from the EDF is OK?

[fishguy]

But having guys on the MAMFC and ASMFC take money from the EDF is OK?


I absolutely agree that, if it's true, it doesn't look good. If they accept the money it's probably because they are chronically underfunded.
Outside financial influence of government is nothing new and permeates every level of it. Every level. It's one of the most corrosive influences on democracy and I hate it.

[bhackemup]

Since when is any federal agency, "UNDERFUNDED?":confused:

[bowhunter]

You leftists need to understand that You are in the minority and WE run things. You don't agree but WE don't care. "Elections have consequences and I won" Barack Hussien Obama 2009. Now WE won,so take a zanax and go pout in the corner. I hope the EPA is completely eliminated. We will have all the guns we want and there isn't a damn thing You can do about it!!

[CadiShackFishing]

The heart of the nation voted for a change in leadership. HRC lost because the nation was tired of being over regulated by the left. That being said some regulation is needed in order to maintain a safe country. It's just the over-reaching arm of government in certain things that need to be controlled. Keep America fishing.

><((((0>

[fishguy]

Since when is any federal agency, "UNDERFUNDED?":confused:

Talk to anyone in the National Park Service for starters...

[Rocky]

Talk to anyone in the National Park Service for starters...

I will give you that one, but how about the hundreds of others that are overfunded and are wasting tax payers money left and right?

[fishguy]

You leftists need to understand that You are in the minority and WE run things. You don't agree but WE don't care. "Elections have consequences and I won" Barack Hussien Obama 2009. Now WE won,so take a zanax and go pout in the corner. I hope the EPA is completely eliminated. We will have all the guns we want and there isn't a damn thing You can do about it!!


Where do I begin? First, you are not the majority. 45 won the election but he lost the popular vote by millions. You can check Fox News here:

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=Trump%20wins%20popular%20vote&ss=fn&start=0

Oops! Fox has absolutely no hits when you search "Trump wins popular vote" Why? Because he didn't!

If you start claiming millions of illegal voters voted I'll ask you to put down your tinfoil hat and do some research. 45's claim of millions of illegal votes
has been thoroughly debunked. Thoroughly.

As to the rest of your alt-right talking points: Indeed, Obama won and said elections have consequences (he won the popular vote too! Twice!) Way to include his middle name because you know it makes him sound more foreign.
I won't pop a "zanax". I don't do drugs. I won't pout. I will engage in the political process. I will try to be an informed and engaged participant in this democratic process.

I own guns and I'm no "snowflake" (you missed your chance to call me that!) but I do like clean air and water.

[fishguy]

I will give you that one, but how about the hundreds of others that are overfunded and are wasting tax payers money left and right?

I couldn't agree more. We really need to reign in our bloated military.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/02/8-5-billion-u-s-counter-narcotics-effort-afghanistan-boosts-opium-production/

8.5 billion to reduce opium production and it ends up increasing production...

[Rocky]

I couldn't agree more. We really need to reign in our bloated military.

Open a window because the fumes are obviously effecting you from thinking clearly.

[fishguy]

Open a window because the fumes are obviously effecting you from thinking clearly.

If there's any government agency that is synonymous with waste it has to be the military. Hands down.

[CadiShackFishing]

[Quote] First, you are not the majority. 45 won the election but he lost the popular vote by millions.

Last time I checked California and New York don't have the exclusive on electing a President, there are other states in-between. Popular vote does not elect a President. Don't worry the 8 years will go by quick by then everyone will be so tired of winning that it will be time for us to go back to complete Government control.

[fishguy]

[Quote] First, you are not the majority. 45 won the election but he lost the popular vote by millions.

Last time I checked California and New York don't have the exclusive on electing a President, there are other states in-between. Popular vote does not elect a President. Don't worry the 8 years will go by quick by then everyone will be so tired of winning that it will be time for us to go back to complete Government control.

Popular vote doesn't elect the president in America. Thanks electoral college.
The point was Trump supporters are not the majority. Plain, simple and totally true.

And not for nothing, if Hill had won the same way 45 did you all would be losing your f***ing minds right now.

[fishguy]

Gerry, I'm out of popcorn already

[Rocky]

Gerry, I'm out of popcorn already

Enjoy. Your ilk made it possible, thank you.

[Blind Squirrel]

You leftists need to understand that You are in the minority and WE run things. You don't agree but WE don't care. "Elections have consequences and I won" Barack Hussien Obama 2009. Now WE won,so take a zanax and go pout in the corner. I hope the EPA is completely eliminated. We will have all the guns we want and there isn't a damn thing You can do about it!!
When did we not have all of the guns we want? :confused:

[bowhunter]

When did we not have all of the guns we want? :confused:

Point is leftists will not stop that any time soon.

[bowhunter]

Where do I begin? First, you are not the majority. 45 won the election but he lost the popular vote by millions. You can check Fox News here:

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=Trump%20wins%20popular%20vote&ss=fn&start=0

Oops! Fox has absolutely no hits when you search "Trump wins popular vote" Why? Because he didn't!

If you start claiming millions of illegal voters voted I'll ask you to put down your tinfoil hat and do some research. 45's claim of millions of illegal votes
has been thoroughly debunked. Thoroughly.

As to the rest of your alt-right talking points: Indeed, Obama won and said elections have consequences (he won the popular vote too! Twice!) Way to include his middle name because you know it makes him sound more foreign.
I won't pop a "zanax". I don't do drugs. I won't pout. I will engage in the political process. I will try to be an informed and engaged participant in this democratic process.

I own guns and I'm no "snowflake" (you missed your chance to call me that!) but I do like clean air and water.

Point is is Snowflake, Leftists are not in the majority in Washington, in statehouses, or govenorships. Democrats only have complete control of 4 states in the country. The Democrat party is in its worst spot since the great depression. You can engage in the political process all You want. Just remember You have been defeated. Even the union thugs get it.

[Blind Squirrel]

Point is leftists will not stop that any time soon.
St. Ronnie of Reagan was hardly a leftist. :rolleyes:

[bowhunter]

St. Ronnie of Reagan was hardly a leftist. :rolleyes:

And He hated the EPA also.

[AndyS]

I remember big ling, whiting and weakfish, what happened there ?

[Blind Squirrel]

First of all, this IS a political post. I realize my source is left leaning but do you doubt any of the facts presented?

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, Gerry you are a climate change denier. You and quite a few other guys on this website seem to believe that it's some type of conspiracy to get funding, an idea that's ridiculously ludicrous when faced with the reality of the science. So it's hard for me to give any weight to any argument you put forth against the EPA. If you deny the many decades of research and 97% of the world's scientists than how can we talk about the EPA?

Lastly, a lot of Trumps nominee's are dead set against the agencies they head.

Scott Pruitt is very obviously in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry, he sued the EPA 13 times and has been open and public about his disdain for the agency he is now in charge of. You might as well appoint John Gotti to run the FBI.

The Energy Secretary said he wanted to abolish the agency all together (if he could only remember which one!)

The head of public education never attended public school, nor have her kids, and she is invested in charter schools and a collection agency that services student loans.

The Attorney General, the chief law enforcement officer in the country, was called a racist by none other than Martin Luther Kings wife and as a result was denied a judgeship back in the 80's. (the evidence seems to hold up that she was right) He also may have perjured himself before Congress. We'll see if he will recuse himself from the investigation I hope is forthcoming.

So I don't think I'm out in left field on this. Center field but a little left because there's nothing but right handed batters coming for the next 4 years.
- Scott Pruitt was also in defiance of a court order to turn over emails (http://www.businessinsider.com/judge-pruitt-emails-epa-trump-2017-2) that have since shown he was in bed with Devon Energy while filing all of his lawsuits against the EPA (http://www.salon.com/2017/02/23/fossil-fuels-bff-scott-pruitts-emails-show-why-republicans-rushed-through-his-epa-confirmation/), but those "right handed hitters" in Congress quickly confirmed him anyway.
- The new Energy Secretary not only wanted to abolish what's now his agency; he didn't even know until after he was nominated that the Department of Energy oversees US nukes. He was a C-student in farming at TAMU, and succeeds a Nobel laureate with a PhD in physics from UC Berkeley and a theoretical physicist with a PhD from Stanford.
-Our new top prosecutor was publicly appalled by a sitting president's fibs under oath about consensual sex in the '90s, but is apparently ok with his own flagrant lies under oath about conspiring with a foreign enemy to undermine our electoral process during the recent presidential campaign, and has been slow to recuse himself from an investigation targeting him.
-Our unpopularly-elected CIC refuses to release his tax returns, which would undoubtedly shed some light on the reason for his coziness with Russia, and has repeatedly attacked all 16 US intelligence agencies and most of the mainstream media. If not for the MSM and US intelligence agencies, he'd already be another Putin. :mad:

[Blind Squirrel]

And He hated the EPA also.
He wasn't fond of assault weapons either, but knew more about them than he did about science:
"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981 (http://www.allhatnocattle.net/reagan%20quotes.htm)

[bowhunter]

He wasn't fond of assault weapons either, but knew more about them than he did about science:
"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981 (http://www.allhatnocattle.net/reagan%20quotes.htm)

Who cares. President Donald Trump loves them. That's what is relevent. Your defeated party couldn't beat a game show host with a billion dollar budget and we are supposed to give a crap about what You want now? Go suck an egg!

[Blind Squirrel]

Who cares. President Donald Trump loves them. That's what is relevent. Your defeated party couldn't beat a game show host with a billion dollar budget and we are supposed to give a crap about what You want now? Go suck an egg!
What goes around comes around. Casino Mussolini doesn't speak for most Americans, and the walls are closing in around him. Let's see who the "defeated party" is after he's forced to release his tax returns.

[torchee]

Please - no matter how slow the fishing is.....
Don't any of you from either side....
Talk this crap while fishing next to me at the rail.

[fishguy]

Point is is Snowflake, Leftists are not in the majority in Washington, in statehouses, or govenorships. Democrats only have complete control of 4 states in the country. The Democrat party is in its worst spot since the great depression. You can engage in the political process all You want. Just remember You have been defeated. Even the union thugs get it.

I hate the Democrats too and I'm certain they sabatoged Sanders campaign for Hillary, much to their detriment. Many people have said that Sanders would have beat 45 or at least fared better. Think about that for a second. A Jewish democrat from Vermont via Brooklyn who espoused the good aspects of social democracy, like single payer healthcare, may have beat 45 or at least done better than Clinton.
You have a political majority, through gerrymandering and a complicit media, but not a popular one. That usually doesn't work out well. SCROTUS will be one term wonder, if he doesn't get impeached for treason.

[PaBeerGuy]

I hate the Democrats too and I'm certain they sabatoged Sanders campaign for Hillary, much to their detriment. Many people have said that Sanders would have beat 45 or at least fared better. Think about that for a second. A Jewish democrat from Vermont via Brooklyn who espoused the good aspects of social democracy, like single payer healthcare, may have beat 45 or at least done better than Clinton.
You have a political majority, through gerrymandering and a complicit media, but not a popular one. That usually doesn't work out well. SCROTUS will be one term wonder, if he doesn't get impeached for treason.

Fishguy, I'm in your corner. This POTUS is the biggest POS I've ever seen and I truly hope for an imminent impeachment. And anyone who calls me a snowflake, go suck an egg. :mad:

[bigal427]

I like crybaby loser more

[Rocky]

It is a good thing sea bass season is closed now, if not we would be to changing a lot of diapers and wiping away the tears out there.

[NoLimit]

I will give you that one, but how about the hundreds of others that are overfunded and are wasting tax payers money left and right?

Oh, like Crater Lake National Park where a stockpile of tens of thousands of rounds of ammo was stolen. Why do they need enough ammo to kill a city?

[NoLimit]

If there's any government agency that is synonymous with waste it has to be the military. Hands down.

So you guys get paid by Soros to talk to each other?

[fishguy]

So you guys get paid by Soros to talk to each other?

What does this even mean?

Let me bring this back to my original intent before this turned into a typical internet muscle head shit show.


I just urged everyone who hates on environmentalists to think about what our country was like 40 years ago when the EPA was formed (by a Republican!) Before you support the end of the EPA just remember how bad it was before we collectively decided to do something about it.

[Capt Joe]

huh, guess Flint didnt quite get their share of the 4.3 Billion dollar pie.;)
http://www.koleyjessen.com/resources/following-the-money-a-quick-look-at-the-epa-budget/

[Capt Joe]

Many people have said that Sanders would have beat 45 or at least fared better.

Now THATS ****ing funny!:D:D:D:D:D

[1captainron]

Exactly why we need a separate forum Gerry!!

[bigal427]

The EPA did a lot of good things but no it's out of control. You have people waiting years to have a permit approved only for them to deny it. The whole EPA needs to be revamped

[dakota560]

Talk to anyone in the National Park Service for starters...

I know this won't come as a surprise to anyone but fiscal responsibility and Washington are about as mutually exclusive as any two items could be. Can't spend what we don't have and continue mortgaging our future by printing cash and issuing debt. A concept Washington, both sides of the aisle, fail to realize. Hopefully the current administration will better grasp that concept. That said there's going to be cuts because there has to be. There is so much waste at every level it's out of control. Call any government agency and witness it first hand. When government is your largest employer in the country, you have a HUGE problem. IRS, social security, HUD, any federal agency you want to list is a sanctuary for incompetency and mediocrity. We spend billions upon billions every year for people one step above illiteracy and then reward them with pensions after 20 years. If you never have, just visit Washington DC and see how taxpayer money is spent. Personally I hope Trump blows it up and let the rebuilding process begin.

If we want more funds for National Parks which I agree is a worthy cause, stop funding all the pork belly projects every year for our senators personal agendas. Just a few:

Some of these earmarks are more audacious than others. For example, last year there was a "bridge to nowhere," a $223 million project connecting Alaska's Gravina Island — population 50 — to the mainland. That project drew so much ridicule from the media that an irate public successfully demanded that the bridge be shelved.

Lots of earmarks qualify under either criterion. Consider a $1 million water-free urinal conservation initiative obtained by Rep. Vernon Ehlers, R-Mich., or a $500,000 grant for the Arctic Winter Games in Alaska, slipped into a Pentagon spending bill by GOP Sen. Ted Stevens.

Name should ring a bell. Sen Ted Stevens is the same senator responsible with Warren Magnuson for introducing the Magnuson Stevens Act of 1976. The $223 million project so 50 people could cross over a bridge would have been better served with Park's conservation I would think and that's not even the tip of the iceberg. When there's unlimited money which belongs to someone other than the person authorizing it to be spent you end up with the black hole of government which swallows our tax dollars every day. I agree there's projects more worthy of funding but the entire process of how funds get allocated needs to be corrected first.

[dakota560]

Exactly why we need a separate forum Gerry!!

Sponsor are here because of the members the site attracts not the other way around. Members are here because of the way Gerry and Joe manage the site. This time of year there are virtually no fishing reports to speak of so it's not like these threads detract from reports. This topic is an extension of the NMFS summer flounder debacle and politics in general so even though it's not a fishing report I'm sure many members would like to know the perspectives of the sponsors on this site they're being asked to support. Not sure why you or other sponsor would want your reports moved to another forum when you have the opportunity to interact with your target audience here in the most viewed forum on the site. I'm sure when the season begins a thread like this wouldn't gain the momentum this one has and would have a short shelf life. Attribute it to cabin fever. Personally for what it's worth I look forward to sponsors opinion's in threads like this because you're asking us to support your business, I'd like to know more about sponsor's views regarding matters that effect my life and my business. In that respect I enjoy the interaction. If sponsor's want another forum, personally it feels a little bit like biting the hand that feeds you. Meaning please support my business but I don't care to hear your thoughts about matters that might be important to members but some sponsors might take exception with.

[reason162]

If I know your views on gun control, I can reliably predict your views on a number of other issues: abortion, gay marriage, and yes...government regulations/conservation.

There is no good reason this should be true, but it is. None of these issues have anything to do with one another, except by the most contortionist of political theory. They each present a different set of ethical/moral challenges, and vastly different sets of incentives and effects for the citizenry. What ought to happen is a well informed public making rational decisions based on evidence and data, SEPARATELY for each challenge that arises in our country. Take off your Republican/Democrat Left/Right hat and examine the evidence in a sober manner...I am doubtful that we will ever get to that point, but one can hope.

IMO, reading this and other threads on NJfishing, it's obvious to me how tribal our politics have become. In the more thoughtful posters, I see a tension between conservation (which is the topic at hand on a fishing forum), and the modern conservative "small government" philosophy. Personally, I don't see how you square this circle. These giant corporations and conglomerates have incentive structures that dictate short term earnings and profit, and w/o a strong regulatory framework with full enforcement power they will pollute and destroy w/o guilt in the name of commerce and "job creation."

The new EPA under Trump terrifies me, the head of which is someone who have reliably and consistently backed corporate interests over that of the environment at every turn in his career.

[bowhunter]

Fishguy, I'm in your corner. This POTUS is the biggest POS I've ever seen and I truly hope for an imminent impeachment. And anyone who calls me a snowflake, go suck an egg. :mad:

Snowflake, Impeachment can only happen if the potus commits a crime. The House (Which is majority Republican) would have to vote for it. Then the senate (Which is majority Republican) would have to vote to convict. Not a likely scenario.
If Your delusional mind can't accept that then ponder this. If all that did happen we get President Pence and plow forward with the same agenda of making America great again. We don't get Nurse Ratchet or Crazy Bernie.
You Snowflakes can make fools of Yourselves all day long just like Ashley Judd, Madonna and Rosie Odonnel (you can even share feminine hygene products with them) or You can get with the program. It makes no difference to Me. I'm a winner and the last thing I worry about are those I've already defeated.

[Blind Squirrel]

If I know your views on gun control, I can reliably predict your views on a number of other issues: abortion, gay marriage, and yes...government regulations/conservation.

There is no good reason this should be true, but it is. None of these issues have anything to do with one another, except by the most contortionist of political theory. They each present a different set of ethical/moral challenges, and vastly different sets of incentives and effects for the citizenry. What ought to happen is a well informed public making rational decisions based on evidence and data, SEPARATELY for each challenge that arises in our country. Take off your Republican/Democrat Left/Right hat and examine the evidence in a sober manner...I am doubtful that we will ever get to that point, but one can hope.

IMO, reading this and other threads on NJfishing, it's obvious to me how tribal our politics have become. In the more thoughtful posters, I see a tension between conservation (which is the topic at hand on a fishing forum), and the modern conservative "small government" philosophy. Personally, I don't see how you square this circle. These giant corporations and conglomerates have incentive structures that dictate short term earnings and profit, and w/o a strong regulatory framework with full enforcement power they will pollute and destroy w/o guilt in the name of commerce and "job creation."

The new EPA under Trump terrifies me, the head of which is someone who have reliably and consistently backed corporate interests over that of the environment at every turn in his career.
Many people don't realize this because of his extreme modesty, but our esteemed leader is a most generous and "unpresidented" benefactor to a clean environment, unspoiled wilderness, and humanity in general:
Donald J. Trump State Park
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Donald J. Trump State Park is a 436-acre (1.8 km2) undeveloped state park located within the towns of Yorktown and Putnam Valley in Westchester County and Putnam County, New York.
The park consists of property donated to New York State in 2006 by Donald Trump. Maintenance of the park was halted in 2010 due to budget constraints, and the park remains largely undeveloped as of 2015.
Donald Trump, for whom the park was named, purchased the property for $2 million in the 1990s, and donated it in 2006.[1][2] Trump donated the land after he was unable to gain town approvals to develop a private golf course on the property.[3] At the time of its donation, Trump claimed the parcel was worth $100 million, and he used the donation as a tax write-off.
LINK TO PAGE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Trump_State_Park)

[fishguy]

huh, guess Flint didnt quite get their share of the 4.3 Billion dollar pie.;)
http://www.koleyjessen.com/resources/following-the-money-a-quick-look-at-the-epa-budget/

What does this mean? The article you cited was written in 2012. Before the Flint crisis story broke. Also this:

"Although a detailed analysis of the EPA’s budget is beyond the scope of this article..."

The data does show that the EPA spends 48.1% of it's total budget on water quality. You know, the stuff we drink and the fish live in.

[fishguy]

Snowflake, Impeachment can only happen if the potus commits a crime. The House (Which is majority Republican) would have to vote for it. Then the senate (Which is majority Republican) would have to vote to convict. Not a likely scenario.
If Your delusional mind can't accept that then ponder this. If all that did happen we get President Pence and plow forward with the same agenda of making America great again. We don't get Nurse Ratchet or Crazy Bernie.
You Snowflakes can make fools of Yourselves all day long just like Ashley Judd, Madonna and Rosie Odonnel (you can even share feminine hygene products with them) or You can get with the program. It makes no difference to Me. I'm a winner and the last thing I worry about are those I've already defeated.

Colluding with a foreign government to throw a presidential election qualifies as a high crime. Treason even. The AG has already recused himself from any investigation into possible crimes. We'll see if a special prosecutor get appointed.
I assume you'd be ok with a full investigation into this, right? I mean, the GOP wasted 21 million dollars discovering Bill got a BJ so you should have no problem investigating 45's Russian ties, right?

[Capt Sal]

Where do I begin? First, you are not the majority. 45 won the election but he lost the popular vote by millions. You can check Fox News here:

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=Trump%20wins%20popular%20vote&ss=fn&start=0

Oops! Fox has absolutely no hits when you search "Trump wins popular vote" Why? Because he didn't!

If you start claiming millions of illegal voters voted I'll ask you to put down your tinfoil hat and do some research. 45's claim of millions of illegal votes
has been thoroughly debunked. Thoroughly.

As to the rest of your alt-right talking points: Indeed, Obama won and said elections have consequences (he won the popular vote too! Twice!) Way to include his middle name because you know it makes him sound more foreign.
I won't pop a "zanax". I don't do drugs. I won't pout. I will engage in the political process. I will try to be an informed and engaged participant in this democratic process.

I own guns and I'm no "snowflake" (you missed your chance to call me that!) but I do like clean air and water.

Trump is the President and there is enough bull shit on CNN with out reading your crap.Rosie has an extra seat for you.

[fishguy]

There's no evidence that President Trump colluded with the Russians. It's a snowflake fairy tale. Sorry to tell You it doesn't have a happy ending for You. President Trump will be here 8 long years. Those that can't come to grips with that should just kill themselves now.

I can't kill myself. Obama took my guns away.

[bowhunter]

I can't kill myself. Obama took my guns away.

Want to borrow a knife?

[RU fishin']

[QUOTE=fishguy;475385]
I remember "beach whistles" scattered all over the beaches of Sandy Hook (they were plastic tampon applicators that had been flushed down the toilet)


Fishguy: You may want to take a walk on Sandy Hook, since the beach has "beach whistles" everywhere & always has.

[bowhunter]

[QUOTE=fishguy;475385]
I remember "beach whistles" scattered all over the beaches of Sandy Hook (they were plastic tampon applicators that had been flushed down the toilet)


Fishguy: You may want to take a walk on Sandy Hook, since the beach has "beach whistles" everywhere & always has.

Most of them are from Him.

[Blind Squirrel]

There's no evidence that President Trump colluded with the Russians. It's a snowflake fairy tale. Sorry to tell You it doesn't have a happy ending for You. President Trump will be here 8 long years. Those that can't come to grips with that should just kill themselves now. (need a knife?)
According to Trump right around the time we got stuck with him, all 16 US intelligence agencies were telling us a "snowflake fairy tale" about the Russian hacking he now admits occurred. Michael Flynn was also his trusted national security advisor until he was forced to resign, and there was no reason for Sessions to recuse himself from an investigation of Jefferson Beauregard Sessions.
Thanks to that "crooked media" and its "fake news," those "alternative facts" have been dispelled, and more of Trump's crap is headed in the same direction. Stay tuned...

[fishguy]

[QUOTE=fishguy;475385]
I remember "beach whistles" scattered all over the beaches of Sandy Hook (they were plastic tampon applicators that had been flushed down the toilet)


Fishguy: You may want to take a walk on Sandy Hook, since the beach has "beach whistles" everywhere & always has.

Huh. I don't recall seeing them like I used to. Waste water treatment has improved a lot (but it's still not adequate) since I was a kid which is why I thought there were fewer of those things. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
Still, the common practice of dumping oil in storm drains, using DDT and lead paint, leaded gasoline etc are mostly things of the past which I think is a good thing and it was due in large part to the EPA. Remember? The whole point of this thread before the mouth breathing alt-right trolls told me to take drugs or kill myself. One guy even offered to give me knife to do the job.
Nice. Real nice. Just the kind of thoughtful discourse we need.

[Blind Squirrel]

Trump is the President and there is enough bull shit on CNN with out reading your crap.Rosie has an extra seat for you.
Rosie sends you her best:
https://typeset-beta.imgix.net/2017%2F1%2F27%2Faa97611b-7b41-46b8-8543-ad4ce84482d3.jpg :p

[Rocky]

I don't remember this kind of whining and crying when Obama won. What a difference 8 years makes. The buttercups here are becoming unglued because they didn't get their way. I guess the slanted media has done their job. :rolleyes:

[Gerry Zagorski]

This post is going sideways so shutting it down.