Enough is Enough T shirts of Unity Fundraiser

[dales529]

Henry (Jakesdad) Of Landau printing helped me get these together with input from many others on the text and picture etc. Please consider purchasing and proudly wearing one while we continue the fight against poor fisheries management and all season long.

Shirts are $16.00 come in Medium, Large, XL, 2XL and 3XL and can be produced in various colors. Right now we have the 2 Grays shown in pictures.

Proceeds from the shirt sales will be split between SSFFF and RFA-NJ.
We will have shirts for sale at the AC show this week and the Somerset Show as well as at The Reel Seat in Brielle soon. If this takes off I will increase locations as needed or create a paypal through RFA-NJ so let me know the interest level.

Here is a simple and inexpensive way to help the cause, create unity and get a new much needed T shirt for fishing.

You can pre order here as well and pick up at the Somerset show or I will find a way to get you one. Let me know size and color.

Our Senators and Congressmen drafted a letter today seen here:
http://chrissmith.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=400179

[SaltLife1980]

Id buy one. No questions asked. Same with Dad.

[NoLimit]

Henry (Jakesdad) Of Landau printing helped me get these together with input from many others on the text and picture etc. Please consider purchasing and proudly wearing one while we continue the fight against poor fisheries management and all season long.

Shirts are $16.00 come in Medium, Large, XL, 2XL and 3XL and can be produced in various colors. Right now we have the 2 Grays shown in pictures.

Proceeds from the shirt sales will be split between SSFFF and RFA-NJ.
We will have shirts for sale at the AC show this week and the Somerset Show as well as at The Reel Seat in Brielle soon. If this takes off I will increase locations as needed or create a paypal through RFA-NJ so let me know the interest level.

Here is a simple and inexpensive way to help the cause, create unity and get a new much needed T shirt for fishing.

You can pre order here as well and pick up at the Somerset show or I will find a way to get you one. Let me know size and color.

Our Senators and Congressmen drafted a letter today seen here:
http://chrissmith.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=400179

You have to get these T's online and quick. Get a tackle shop with online sales so people can order from home

[gnuisance]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

[mako28]

Is it maybe time to try something new here?

Take your own advice. Stop hugging trees and start working for noaa

[bulletbob]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

I understand your consternation,,, However it is NOAA thats responsible for management of commercial fishing permits.. If ANYONE is responsible for the decimation of the HORDES of whiting,ling and flounder it is THOSE permit holders.. Same with weakfish.. Gill netted while they friggin spawn and are most vulnerable, with the blessing of the federal agencies, then sold by the ton for pennies... Yet you want to keep a rec from bringing home a few fluke.. You are on the wrong board my friend... I am as radical a conservationist as exists on this site, but even i have trouble relating to your rant....,

btw,Fluke?.. In trouble?.. Are you serious?... The bottom was covered with them last year... Lots were under 18 but the sheer numbers were staggering. So many they were caught right into January by blackfishermen. Saw it myself. bob

[Gerry Zagorski]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

If the commercial take take take attitude of this site makes you sick, you might want to find a different site to visit.

As far as trying something new.... I'm all for doing something else since NOAA has been managing this fishery for almost 30 years and according to their own numbers, their methods and science are not working.

[Gerry Zagorski]

XXL for me Dales.See you at the RFA booth at the Somerset show ;)

[BELLYUP]

Any chance the shirts will make the Rockland show this weekend? thanks Rich

[stevelikes2fish]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

You obviously are clueless when it comes to fishing. NOAA - Never On About Anything - has some immediate openings for tree huggers. TRY THE PETA WEBSITE TOO.

[ALS Mako]

I'll get mine at the Somerset show. :)

[reason162]

If the commercial take take take attitude of this site makes you sick, you might want to find a different site to visit.

As the owner of this site, are you saying that dissension from the party line is not tolerated on NJfishing? I can assure you that the people who visit your forum is more evenly split on this issue than you might think.

[Foul Hook]

I'll get a least one from Reel Seat. Maybe post when they get there. Thanks Dale for all the hard work!!

[Capt. Debbie]

Gerry,

You and I may totally disagree about his opinion. But I don't think telling him to go elsewhere helps keep this site GREAT.

There's old saying in business school... IF TWO PEOPLE AGREE ALL THE TIME- ONE OF THEM IS UNNECESSARY.

Most on this board are concerned about sustained fishing. Most are struck with the absence of fish like whiting and weakfish(up north). Who's to blame? If we knew it would easy to fix it.

If the fish are there(unlike whiting) but we are restricted we have our NOAA/NMFS/ State of NJ/ETC. to blame. Fact of the matter is how do you know how many fish are in the Atlantic and where on the east coast at any time. Its a F'ing guess with some weak factual basis that's got a truckload of flaws. There is no accurate way to count fish or tell if they don't migrate here anymore and why then don't go there anymore.

Want to tag 1000's with homing beacons and follow them for years? Fine. Find the money.

Back to our dissenter... it's just his opinion... should he be asked to leave because we don't agree? It may piss a lot of people off. But we are better than this and that's why this site is GREAT as long as its been and growing.











If the commercial take take take attitude of this site makes you sick, you might want to find a different site to visit.

As far as trying something new.... I'm all for doing something else since NOAA has been managing this fishery for almost 30 years and according to their own numbers, their methods and science are not working.

[Capt. Debbie]

Try selling them in tackle shops?


Henry (Jakesdad) Of Landau printing helped me get these together with input from many others on the text and picture etc. Please consider purchasing and proudly wearing one while we continue the fight against poor fisheries management and all season long.

Shirts are $16.00 come in Medium, Large, XL, 2XL and 3XL and can be produced in various colors. Right now we have the 2 Grays shown in pictures.

Proceeds from the shirt sales will be split between SSFFF and RFA-NJ.
We will have shirts for sale at the AC show this week and the Somerset Show as well as at The Reel Seat in Brielle soon. If this takes off I will increase locations as needed or create a paypal through RFA-NJ so let me know the interest level.

Here is a simple and inexpensive way to help the cause, create unity and get a new much needed T shirt for fishing.

You can pre order here as well and pick up at the Somerset show or I will find a way to get you one. Let me know size and color.

Our Senators and Congressmen drafted a letter today seen here:
http://chrissmith.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=400179

[courbeco]

As the owner of this site, are you saying that dissension from the party line is not tolerated on NJfishing? I can assure you that the people who visit your forum is more evenly split on this issue than you might think.

In the literal sense, Gerry's comment was 100% justified. The remainder of his comment was spot on.

[Joey Dah Fish]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?
Hmmmmmm I find it quite interesting that you believe targeting primarily breeding females is the appropriate way to build or sustain a stock. 90 percent of 19" fish and over are females so please share with us all your Devine wisdom fine sir

[dales529]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

Gnuisance: Having been around fisheries management issues for 9 years now in meetings, fundraisers etc its NOT just us that know that the data collection methodology / science is flawed.

All the Councils themselves admit that the system is not accurate, but the best available. All we want is to stop the repetition of what is factually NOT working until better data and methodology is put into practice.

We have abided by and trusted the methodology for years now all hoping for better stock biomass as we were told the cuts and size increases would provide. It has NOT and now we say enough as what the data says is not consistent with what is seen on the water and even if the data were somehow correct then the methodology is really NOT working so time to STOP and re think it.

We have proven our dedication to Fishery Conservation and Ocean Stewardship now we want the same from the Agencies that govern it

[dales529]

Back to the T Shirts:
Jeff Saltlife and Jeff SR. Thanks you guys are always up front and support all the fundraisers . See you at the Somerset show

BellyUp: Sorry I have no booth or way to get shirts this quickly to Rockland. Open to Ideas if you have any. Hope you can get one at Somerset or PM me

NoLimit: Online will be a way to go if sales justified however I am trying to keep it inexpensive due to the fundraiser for SSFFF and RFA. Online fulfillment and shipping would make the shirt $25 to $30

Capt Frank: Starting with Reel Seat in Brielle and see how it goes . Shelf Space and fulfillment costs are a lot to ask but as usual Dave A offered at no charge to support SSFFF and RFA. If it takes off I may reach out to other shops but didn't want to burden them. Its tough out there.

Stevelikestofish: will reply to your PM. Thanks

[dakota560]

You've got it backwards. You guys are the ones raping the fishery and disregarding science. NOAA should be making t shirts against you. The commercial take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick.

I love how you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

Ever heard of erring on the side of caution? Oh this species might possibly be in trouble so we should back off a bit. Nope! We want our five fish limit, we want our party boat industry, we want this and that. How's your weakfish, winter flounder and whiting fisheries doing these days guys? Is it maybe time to try something new here?

Gnuisance first I love the avatar. Started flat head fishing a few years ago and have been addicted since. Tremendous fishery! Largest so far was right around the 30 lb range, 38 inches long. Big D has some monsters as does the Schuylkill and Susquehanna. Nice catch and congrats on the twenty plus.

As far as your comments, just a few thoughts. Recreational guys didn’t ruin the whiting, ling, weakfish, striper, tuna, shark, winter flounder, mackerel, cod or any other fishery which has come and gone. While people will rightfully say recreational contributes to harvest and needs to be managed, recreational alone in my opinion will never destroy a fishery. Indiscriminate netting along with the insane amount of dead discard associated with netting and high grading practices does and will continue to do so if left unchecked. Not just for the target species either as netting has no conscience regarding incidental catch. Everything ending up in the nets is at risk. I’m not against commercial fishing and never have been. People have a right to make a living from the sea and harvest a public resource. But when that right crosses over to exploitation, management needs to step in and personally while I believe most commercial guys operate with a conscience and concern for the fishery there are those who have no regard resulting in dead discard numbers significantly higher than reported. It’s an issue which needs to be addressed.

The people on this site your comments are directed at or the recreational community in general including party and charter boats are the same people who have worked within NMFS regulations for the last 20 or more years. Everyone has accepted the reductions in overall catch, size limit increases and possession limit reductions and have done their part in the hope all our sacrifices would translate into future benefits. Those hopes were further heightened when NMFS themselves declared SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) rebuilt in 2010. A few years later, they tell us they're wrong yet they continue employing the same failed strategy managing catch only which has created the problem we're trying to dig ourselves out from.

In 1988 when the SSB was ~7,000 metric tons, I think the recreational limit was 10 fish at 13 or 14 inches. Over the ensuing 14 years the SSB skyrocketed to ~50,000 metric tons with lower size limits, significantly higher possession limits (compared to what Option V is proposing and recent regulations), and total catch averaging~ 12,000 metric tons for the years 1989 to 2002. That’s a 600% increase in SSB with higher catch and lower size limits. Total catch for the years 2014 to 2015 averaged 8,250 metric tons, a 30% drop in annual harvest from the period SSB exploded upward. Yet SSB is declining and has been since 2002 and at an even more accelerated rate since 2010.

There is strong evidence using their own science and data to support the fact that continued increases in size limits has decimated the recruitment strength of the SSB. Yet that fact is being completely ignored. Option V will further hurt recruitment strength and guarantee a continued and sharp decline in SSB further removed from the MSA mandated ~62,000 metric ton target. We’re in a self-induced free fall due to decisions NMFS have made and continue to make, it really is that simple. It takes two years on average for a fluke to become sexually mature and until regulations recognize the problem and consider measures to protect female breeders, the declining SSB trend line will continue as it has over the last ~20 years. 2017, 2018 and 2019 declines in SSB are already guaranteed IMHO due to proposed regulations under Option V. We continue to harvest an increasing higher percentage of a rapidly dwindling female SSB population and in the process further destroy the relative recruitment strength of SSB for the ensuing two to three years. If you review the Rutgers age and length study, a 19-inch fish is ~48.26 centimeters which based on their study means about 90 to 95% of all fish harvested under Option V in 2017 will be a female breeder. The fact that NMFS and ASMFC are proposing this is unconscionable. The data and evidence are overwhelming in what’s causing SSB to decline yet NMFS refuses to admit they’ve misinterpreted the science and resulting data and are wrong in continuing to focus only on total catch visa vie size limit increases and possession limit reductions. If we're to believe their theory has any credibility, then why between the years 1989 and 2002 did SSB increase six-fold when total catch was almost 45% higher than it is today with possession and size limits both far more liberal than the last 5 years. There are absolutely focusing on the wrong problem, misinterpreting or ignoring the data in the process and managing the fishery to a complete collapse. GENDER IMBALANCE, two words we should all be talking about. It is the absolute problem. Dave we should have t-shirts made that have that saying on them, 1 female fluke surrounded by 12 males with the female saying "Enough is Enough"!

So while I understand what your trying to say, I couldn't disagree more with your comments. The people your accusing of only wanting regulations that favor them are the same people who have made countless sacrifices over the last 20 years. Hardly seems fair blaming people who have complied willingly with draconian changes in regulations every year. There’s only so many times you can ask someone to walk into the same wall before they tell you they’ve had enough. The best we can hope for in 2017 is 3 fish at 19”, if emergency measures are adopted we could be looking at 2 fish at 20” or maybe even 1 fish at 21” or an industry closure. And that’s because the fishery we’ve all worked so hard to save and made countless sacrifices over the last twenty years is about to be taken away from us because of politics and a governing body having blinders on. I can almost guarantee based on time on the water and people who post here, most recreational anglers I would bet have released 20 times more summer flounder in the last 10 years than what they've retained. It's just the way the percentages work out when you increase size limits. I don't see how anyone can associate that with "raping the fishery" or "beating on the fluke every year". In my world that's conservation at it's finest and indicative of the efforts most people have put forth to save this fishery for future generations to enjoy. What other recreational fishery do you know of that has probably a 90% or greater C&R percentage?

With all that said, Gerry and Joe have worked their butts off to create arguably the best fishing web site there is. All they ask in return is courtesy and respect. Don’t think I’ve ever heard them say anything to the contrary. At the end of the day it’s a fishing website and yes a lot of our views are biased based on what’s important to the recreational fishing community which is what I'd expect. If this were an NMFS website I’m sure the opinions posted would be heavily in favor of views more common to them. Opposing views are great, it’s one of the reasons NJF rules. Sometimes the hardest thing for any of us to understand is someone else’s perspective but in this particular case if you examine the data which I have and consider decisions made over 20 to 25 years which have not only not worked they've failed miserably, it’s hard not to understand the frustration most people on this site have.

Just my .02 for what it’s worth. I hope a 30 lb flat head is in the cards for you this season. There’s much bigger ones than that in the Big D and certainly in the Schuylkill and Susquehanna.

[SaltLife1980]

Back to the T Shirts:
Jeff Saltlife and Jeff SR. Thanks you guys are always up front and support all the fundraisers . See you at the Somerset show

BellyUp: Sorry I have no booth or way to get shirts this quickly to Rockland. Open to Ideas if you have any. Hope you can get one at Somerset or PM me

NoLimit: Online will be a way to go if sales justified however I am trying to keep it inexpensive due to the fundraiser for SSFFF and RFA. Online fulfillment and shipping would make the shirt $25 to $30

Capt Frank: Starting with Reel Seat in Brielle and see how it goes . Shelf Space and fulfillment costs are a lot to ask but as usual Dave A offered at no charge to support SSFFF and RFA. If it takes off I may reach out to other shops but didn't want to burden them. Its tough out there.

Stevelikestofish: will reply to your PM. Thanks

See you there Dave

[Gerry Zagorski]

Guys let me set the record straight here.... Everyone is entitled to their opinion here as long it's stated respectfully, with out personal attacks and does not create a shit storm I have to deal with. I'm fine with opinions that differ from mine and perhaps many others on this board.... I leave them stand, evidenced by the fact that I very well could deleted them and gone to bed ;)

Further, my statement "if you don't like what is here then maybe you should find another place to visit is pretty logical IMHO.... There are lots of sites out there I purposely don't care to visit because they filled with people and opinions that are 180 degrees out from mine. All it does it piss me off and as mentioned above, the emotion and personal attacks start and quite frankly, I don't have the time or patience for it.

Statements like these struck a chord with me:
- You guys are the ones raping the fishery
- take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick
- you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

These are very emotional statements and yes this is an emotionally charged issue but they crossed the line for me... I'm accused of raping the fishery, I pretend so I can beat on the Fluke and it's an absolute Joke and I make you sick?? Come on.... Don't you think that is a bit over the top?

Do I or others that have differing opinions here deserve that? And, if you look at the people here who responded to these statements, most did it respectfully and with out personal attacks.

Those of the type of people I want here..... People who can agree to disagree but do it respectfully.

The all knowing and ever powerful OZ has spoken.... Now lets get back on topic here.... Who wants what size shirt :D:D:D

[Capt. Debbie]

Gerry

Well stated. And frankly all true too.

Maybe dialing back his "rhetoric" a bit still makes his point is in order. REMEMBER . . . Not every one is gifted being as articulate as you and I. LOL



Guys let me set the record straight here.... Everyone is entitled to their opinion here as long it's stated respectfully, with out personal attacks and does not create a shit storm I have to deal with. I'm fine with opinions that differ from mine and perhaps many others on this board.... I leave them stand, evidenced by the fact that I very well could deleted them and gone to bed ;)

Further, my statement "if you don't like what is here then maybe you should find another place to visit is pretty logical IMHO.... There are lots of sites out there I purposely don't care to visit because they filled with people and opinions that are 180 degrees out from mine. All it does it piss me off and as mentioned above, the emotion and personal attacks start and quite frankly, I don't have the time or patience for it.

Statements like these struck a chord with me:
- You guys are the ones raping the fishery
- take take take attitude of this board makes me literally sick
- you guys pretend to be an advocate for the species so you can have looser limits and a longer season to beat on the fluke year after year. It's an absolute joke.

These are very emotional statements and yes this is an emotionally charged issue but they crossed the line for me... I'm accused of raping the fishery, I pretend so I can beat on the Fluke and it's an absolute Joke and I make you sick?? Come on.... Don't you think that is a bit over the top?

Do I or others that have differing opinions here deserve that? And, if you look at the people here who responded to these statements, most did it respectfully and with out personal attacks.

Those of the type of people I want here..... People who can agree to disagree and but do it respectfully.

The all knowing and ever powerful OZ has spoken.... Now lets get back on topic here.... Who wants what size shirt :D:D:D

[gnuisance]

Gnuisance first I love the avatar. Started flat head fishing a few years ago and have been addicted since. Tremendous fishery! Largest so far was right around the 30 lb range, 38 inches long. Big D has some monsters as does the Schuylkill and Susquehanna. Nice catch and congrats on the twenty plus.

As far as your comments, just a few thoughts. Recreational guys didn’t ruin the whiting, ling, weakfish, striper, tuna, shark, winter flounder, mackerel, cod or any other fishery which has come and gone. While people will rightfully say recreational contributes to harvest and needs to be managed, recreational alone in my opinion will never destroy a fishery. Indiscriminate netting along with the insane amount of dead discard associated with netting and high grading practices does and will continue to do so if left unchecked. Not just for the target species either as netting has no conscience regarding incidental catch. Everything ending up in the nets is at risk. I’m not against commercial fishing and never have been. People have a right to make a living from the sea and harvest a public resource. But when that right crosses over to exploitation, management needs to step in and personally while I believe most commercial guys operate with a conscience and concern for the fishery there are those who have no regard resulting in dead discard numbers significantly higher than reported. It’s an issue which needs to be addressed.

The people on this site your comments are directed at or the recreational community in general including party and charter boats are the same people who have worked within NMFS regulations for the last 20 or more years. Everyone has accepted the reductions in overall catch, size limit increases and possession limit reductions and have done their part in the hope all our sacrifices would translate into future benefits. Those hopes were further heightened when NMFS themselves declared SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass) rebuilt in 2010. A few years later, they tell us they're wrong yet they continue employing the same failed strategy managing catch only which has created the problem we're trying to dig ourselves out from.

In 1988 when the SSB was ~7,000 metric tons, I think the recreational limit was 10 fish at 13 or 14 inches. Over the ensuing 14 years the SSB skyrocketed to ~50,000 metric tons with lower size limits, significantly higher possession limits (compared to what Option V is proposing and recent regulations), and total catch averaging~ 12,000 metric tons for the years 1989 to 2002. That’s a 600% increase in SSB with higher catch and lower size limits. Total catch for the years 2014 to 2015 averaged 8,250 metric tons, a 30% drop in annual harvest from the period SSB exploded upward. Yet SSB is declining and has been since 2002 and at an even more accelerated rate since 2010.

There is strong evidence using their own science and data to support the fact that continued increases in size limits has decimated the recruitment strength of the SSB. Yet that fact is being completely ignored. Option V will further hurt recruitment strength and guarantee a continued and sharp decline in SSB further removed from the MSA mandated ~62,000 metric ton target. We’re in a self-induced free fall due to decisions NMFS have made and continue to make, it really is that simple. It takes two years on average for a fluke to become sexually mature and until regulations recognize the problem and consider measures to protect female breeders, the declining SSB trend line will continue as it has over the last ~20 years. 2017, 2018 and 2019 declines in SSB are already guaranteed IMHO due to proposed regulations under Option V. We continue to harvest an increasing higher percentage of a rapidly dwindling female SSB population and in the process further destroy the relative recruitment strength of SSB for the ensuing two to three years. If you review the Rutgers age and length study, a 19-inch fish is ~48.26 centimeters which based on their study means about 90 to 95% of all fish harvested under Option V in 2017 will be a female breeder. The fact that NMFS and ASMFC are proposing this is unconscionable. The data and evidence are overwhelming in what’s causing SSB to decline yet NMFS refuses to admit they’ve misinterpreted the science and resulting data and are wrong in continuing to focus only on total catch visa vie size limit increases and possession limit reductions. If we're to believe their theory has any credibility, then why between the years 1989 and 2002 did SSB increase six-fold when total catch was almost 45% higher than it is today with possession and size limits both far more liberal than the last 5 years. There are absolutely focusing on the wrong problem, misinterpreting or ignoring the data in the process and managing the fishery to a complete collapse. GENDER IMBALANCE, two words we should all be talking about. It is the absolute problem. Dave we should have t-shirts made that have that saying on them, 1 female fluke surrounded by 12 males with the female saying "Enough is Enough"!

So while I understand what your trying to say, I couldn't disagree more with your comments. The people your accusing of only wanting regulations that favor them are the same people who have made countless sacrifices over the last 20 years. Hardly seems fair blaming people who have complied willingly with draconian changes in regulations every year. There’s only so many times you can ask someone to walk into the same wall before they tell you they’ve had enough. The best we can hope for in 2017 is 3 fish at 19”, if emergency measures are adopted we could be looking at 2 fish at 20” or maybe even 1 fish at 21” or an industry closure. And that’s because the fishery we’ve all worked so hard to save and made countless sacrifices over the last twenty years is about to be taken away from us because of politics and a governing body having blinders on. I can almost guarantee based on time on the water and people who post here, most recreational anglers I would bet have released 20 times more summer flounder in the last 10 years than what they've retained. It's just the way the percentages work out when you increase size limits. I don't see how anyone can associate that with "raping the fishery" or "beating on the fluke every year". In my world that's conservation at it's finest and indicative of the efforts most people have put forth to save this fishery for future generations to enjoy. What other recreational fishery do you know of that has probably a 90% or greater C&R percentage?

With all that said, Gerry and Joe have worked their butts off to create arguably the best fishing web site there is. All they ask in return is courtesy and respect. Don’t think I’ve ever heard them say anything to the contrary. At the end of the day it’s a fishing website and yes a lot of our views are biased based on what’s important to the recreational fishing community which is what I'd expect. If this were an NMFS website I’m sure the opinions posted would be heavily in favor of views more common to them. Opposing views are great, it’s one of the reasons NJF rules. Sometimes the hardest thing for any of us to understand is someone else’s perspective but in this particular case if you examine the data which I have and consider decisions made over 20 to 25 years which have not only not worked they've failed miserably, it’s hard not to understand the frustration most people on this site have.

Just my .02 for what it’s worth. I hope a 30 lb flat head is in the cards for you this season. There’s much bigger ones than that in the Big D and certainly in the Schuylkill and Susquehanna.


Hey man I appreciate you taking the time to type out that reply. I think what you are saying about the sex of the fluke makes sense. Here's my thing. Why are we never putting the brakes on or actually advocating for the fish in a real way? When there is flawed science or a lack of science we should just keep doing things the way we were and hope it works out? Huh?? What is our track record with fisheries around here? I understand it's commerical not rec but we are LUMPED TOGETHER!!

I want to have my fun and eat some fluke this summer too. What I don't want to do is see another fishery come and go in this area because rec anglers and commercial anglers were lumped together and no real dissent from rec anglers who spoke up and said enough is enough. Stop allowing these comemrcial guys to mop up and the rec anglers pay the price.

[gnuisance]

I might have gone a little over the top with the language I used. I just want to make sure that it's understood that not everyone feels the same way as a lot of you guys. There are anglers out there who's #1 focus is fishing sustainably. Not filling the cooler or the pockets of the headboat captain. That type of attitude and thinking is what has gotten us to where we are now with completely NON-SUSTAINABLE fisheries.

How many times have you heard on old timer say "oh we used to fill buckets with whiting or ling" or anything else. That's what I hear from you guys. We want it the way we are used to having it and if not we are going to cry and moan and make t shirts and criticize the gov't because their science is no good. You guys love to fish and love the time on the water but you don't care for the fish themselves or their future? How does that even make a lick of sense?

[dakota560]

I might have gone a little over the top with the language I used. I just want to make sure that it's understood that not everyone feels the same way as a lot of you guys. There are anglers out there who's #1 focus is fishing sustainably. Not filling the cooler or the pockets of the headboat captain. That type of attitude and thinking is what has gotten us to where we are now with completely NON-SUSTAINABLE fisheries.

How many times have you heard on old timer say "oh we used to fill buckets with whiting or ling" or anything else. That's what I hear from you guys. We want it the way we are used to having it and if not we are going to cry and moan and make t shirts and criticize the gov't because their science is no good. You guys love to fish and love the time on the water but you don't care for the fish themselves or their future? How does that even make a lick of sense?

Again I'd take a breathe and a step back and think about what you're saying. You guys love to fish and love the time on the water but you don't care for the fish themselves or their future? How does that even make a lick of sense? How can you make that statement when party boats, charter boats and recreational anglers have abided by the regulations for over 20 years. Your comments make no sense. The SSB went from 7.000 metric tons in 1988 to a high ~50,000 metric tons in 2003 because of the sacrifices we've all made BUT have since dropped because of wrong decisions NMFS have made based on their own science and data. Everyone on this board has a vested interest in a sustainable fishery.....EVERYONE. NMFS is killing the fishery with their decision and if you can't see that or haven't taken the time to analyze the data yourself then your comments are just as reckless and baseless as the decisions being made by NMFS. Again how in a fishery where 90 to 95% of the fish caught are released by recreational anglers result in your opinion that no one here cares about the fishery! Would you expect 100% catch and release? We might actually be closer to that than we think thanks to the mismanagement that's taking place.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I might have gone a little over the top with the language I used. I just want to make sure that it's understood that not everyone feels the same way as a lot of you guys. There are anglers out there who's #1 focus is fishing sustainably. Not filling the cooler or the pockets of the headboat captain. That type of attitude and thinking is what has gotten us to where we are now with completely NON-SUSTAINABLE fisheries.

How many times have you heard on old timer say "oh we used to fill buckets with whiting or ling" or anything else. That's what I hear from you guys. We want it the way we are used to having it and if not we are going to cry and moan and make t shirts and criticize the gov't because their science is no good. You guys love to fish and love the time on the water but you don't care for the fish themselves or their future? How does that even make a lick of sense?

Times certainly have changed gnuisance and I believe you are correct... People have definitely become a lot more conservation minded over the years. Lots of people on here and elsewhere advocating catch and release, don't take more then you need etc.

However, don't think for a minute that I or anyone else here don't care about the fish, the fishery or the future. Fact is we do... We helped pay for the improved science by donating to the SSFFF and are questioning the government who by their own admission are mismanaging this fishery.

We care deeply!!

[bunker dunker]

please Lord,let us get back to fishing soon.

[dales529]

OK great stuff:rolleyes: Can I have my T shirt Thread back now:D

Shirts are NOW available at the Reel Seat in Brielle
http://www.reelseat.com

The Reel Seat Inc.
Address 707 Union Ave (Rt 71)
Brielle NJ 08730

Phone 732-223-5353
Fax 732-223-4440

While you are there buy some Fluke Rigs. Going to be a great season:cool:

[GDubya07]

Dave I will see you at the Somerset Show

GDubs-:cool:

[Joey Dah Fish]

I might have gone a little over the top with the language I used. I just want to make sure that it's understood that not everyone feels the same way as a lot of you guys. There are anglers out there who's #1 focus is fishing sustainably. Not filling the cooler or the pockets of the headboat captain. That type of attitude and thinking is what has gotten us to where we are now with completely NON-SUSTAINABLE fisheries.

How many times have you heard on old timer say "oh we used to fill buckets with whiting or ling" or anything else. That's what I hear from you guys. We want it the way we are used to having it and if not we are going to cry and moan and make t shirts and criticize the gov't because their science is no good. You guys love to fish and love the time on the water but you don't care for the fish themselves or their future? How does that even make a lick of sense?

I think perhaps you maybe mistaking. Most of the members of this site donate to the RFA and SSFF . In last few years these folks have taken upon themselves paying for independent studies to asses not only the stocks but gender and mortality rates amongst many other important pieces of data vital to our fishey. I've been to a few of the meetings and we all pretty much agree on one thing. If their data and assesments proves what the government has been saying all along we will except their finds and recommendations . So though folks may actually be paying for assessment that that actually agree with current assessments and data. So in simpler tempers we are looking for the truth nothing more nothing less, and willing to put our money where our mouth is. No one will enjoy a possible shut down of this fishery but I honestly believe if they knew it was the right thing to do to sustain and rebound the stock they would accept it.

[Joey Dah Fish]

I will be heading to Reel Seat when they arrive buying fir my wife myself etc. great idea Dales

[jakesdad]

Joe,

Shirts shipped on Wednesday to the Reel Seat, he should have received them today.

As most have pointed out many of us have joined the RFA, and have also donated to SSFFF. We realize that the studies we are requesting could prove us wrong, but after having fished the Jersey Coast for almost 60 years, I know that the current benchmark assessment is inaccurate. Once a current benchmark is completed we will be happy to abide with the results.

This must be done with full transparency so as not to be questioned. As I said the stock we have seen of younger year classes the past couple of years proves them wrong. Just fishing in Shark River we can catch and release many short fish from 5 inches up to 17.999.

[dales529]

Again per my previous post: Shirts are available at the Reel Seat NOW
Ok during normal business hours lol.
The Reel Seat Inc.
Address 707 Union Ave (Rt 71)
Brielle NJ 08730

Phone 732-223-5353
Fax 732-223-4440

[Walleyed]

Sent you a PM to reserve a shirt for Somerset pickup.

[dales529]

All Pm's answered. Thanks everyone. Who knows this could get "large" :cool: Or in my case XL

[Joey Dah Fish]

I got my t shirts at reel seat today !!!!!

[Ice Cream Bill]

Dakota560, thanks for the terrific and educated response to this forum! I always appreciate the exchange of ideas and opinions on this website.

Wasn't NOAA responsible for shutting down the cod fishery up in Mass a few years ago by imposing a moratorium? Ask the generations of fishermen from Gloucester how that's working.Try going haddock fishing and pull up codfish.

Didn't NMFC direct us to protect spiny dogfish just a few years ago? Try going bottom-fishing for black sea bass, ling or porgies here in NJ--coming up from different depths time and again with these useless predators.

"Worst available science" to me.

Dales (Dave) save me an XL shirt. I'll join Jeff & his dad in your fight!

Bill

[togzilla]

To everyone who has read this thread here is my take on gnuisance comments:
"You can't fix stupid so why even reply back to gnuisance"

[dakota560]

To everyone who has read this thread here is my take on gnuisance comments:
"You can't fix stupid so why even reply back to gnuisance"

Togzilla....I've had my share of run ins on this website and like to think I'm learned from them. At least I hope I have. It's true we're all entitled to our opinions including gnuisance , you and me. I actually believe it creates better discussion. I take no issues with opposing positions as long as they're not in the form of a personal attack. I also have more respect for opinions supported by logic and or data. Again it's all the owners of this site have ever asked, respecting someone else's views even when we disagree with one another. I'm sure gnuisance has reasons for his opinions as I have reasons for mine. Doesn't mean we can't respect one another's positions even if the end result is we agree to disagree.

We've all seen site's that are toxic because emotions go unchecked. Gerry and Joe put a tremendous amount of effort in making sure the same doesn't happen here and we owe them the same courtesy so the burden of that responsibility doesn't only fall on their shoulders. Tolerance can be a great virtue especially when circumstances might trigger a different reaction.

[Joey Dah Fish]

Togzilla....I've had my share of run ins on this website and like to think I'm learned from them. At least I hope I have. It's true we're all entitled to our opinions including gnuisance , you and me. I actually believe it creates better discussion. I take no issues with opposing positions as long as they're not in the form of a personal attack. I also have more respect for opinions supported by logic and or data. Again it's all the owners of this site have ever asked, respecting someone else's views even when we disagree with one another. I'm sure gnuisance has reasons for his opinions as I have reasons for mine. Doesn't mean we can't respect one another's positions even if the end result is we agree to disagree.

We've all seen site's that are toxic because emotions go unchecked. Gerry and Joe put a tremendous amount of effort in making sure the same doesn't happen here and we owe them the same courtesy so the burden of that responsibility doesn't only fall on their shoulders. Tolerance can be a great virtue especially when circumstances might trigger a different reaction.

Just to be clear I have no part of NJFising.com it is the soul property of my brother. I am the guy that puts the fish in the boat :p . He the guy the writes about it. Lol My brother is an excellent man and I could learn a lot from him and the example he has set for me throughout life. But I'm a stubborn hard headed guy that in no way shape or form could hold my tongue. Happy to help when he asks but glad I don't have to manage this looney bin :D

[Scrubby]

I will be calling the reel seat tommorrow for my tshirt

[Joey Dah Fish]

Bump please go out and get your shirts help our fisheries

[Scrubby]

I was just wondering, are any other tackle shops carrying the shirts?

[Ttmako]

I helped out at the RFA booth yesterday at the AC boat show.
These t-shirts resonated pretty well with people. They laughed a lot at the shirts.

[dales529]

I was just wondering, are any other tackle shops carrying the shirts?

Scrubby: How you been? Right now we just have them at the Reel Seat until I figure out what the numbers may be. Waiting for the interest level actual results from the AC show and will have them at The Somerset Show.
If the numbers are there we will approach other shops

[Scrubby]

Scrubby: How you been? Right now we just have them at the Reel Seat until I figure out what the numbers may be. Waiting for the interest level actual results from the AC show and will have them at The Somerset Show.
If the numbers are there we will approach other shops

I didn't get a chance to call on Sunday, what are your hours at the shop so I can call?

[Dave A]

[QUOTE=Scrubby;475837]I didn't get a chance to call on Sunday, what are your hours at the shop so I can call?[/QUOTht

We are open Thurs - Sunday this time of the year

[Scrubby]

[QUOTE=Scrubby;475837]I didn't get a chance to call on Sunday, what are your hours at the shop so I can call?[/QUOTht

We are open Thurs - Sunday this time of the year

excellent.. I will call you on Thursday.. Thanks

[jakesdad]

Dave, Shipment UPS today to arrive on Thursday. Henry

[tuna john]

got mine at ac boat show proud to wear it thanks for putting it together

[Scrubby]

Received mine yesterday. Thank you

[dakota560]

Dave, unfortunately I couldn't make the Somerset show this past weekend. What's the best way for me to pick up the shirts you set aside and get you payment? I'm in West Orange. If I have to I can run down to Reel Seat Friday if that works best for everyone assuming they have XL and L in stock, Let me know. Thanks.

[jakesdad]

Dakota,


Somerset show is this coming weekend, there will be shirts available at the RFA booth. I have printed plenty of large, extra large, XXl and 3xl for this show. See you there!

[team heat]

I wonder if gnuisance would agree to the commercial guys throwing back 90 percent of their catch.

[dakota560]

Dakota,


Somerset show is this coming weekend, there will be shirts available at the RFA booth. I have printed plenty of large, extra large, XXl and 3xl for this show. See you there!

Thanks.....see you Saturday.

[CadiShackFishing]

Salt and I got our shirts, can't wait till that RFA fluke trip. :D

[Ice Cream Bill]

Stopped by the RFA booth and visited with Gerry and Dave. Got my t-shirt.

Thanks for all your efforts! Enough is Enough from NOAA and NMFC!


Bill

[Walleyed]

Went to the show, got my t-shirt, was coerced to sign up for the RFA by some big guy that claimed to run a fishing web forum.

Gerry, was a pleasure to finally meet you in person and Dave, always good to see you again.

Tight lines!

[Gerry Zagorski]

Great to see everyone at the show. Our booth was swamped and shirts are going fast. Special thanks to Dakota for making the trip down to Princeton for the shirts.

I was really surprised and encouraged to see how many kids came out and how much they're into fishing. Many parents I spoke to said they never fished until their kids expresssed an interest, so in some cases it's the kids taking the parents fishing.

These kids are so enthusiastic, it serves to remind us all how important it is to get involved and stay engaged protecting the fisheries and this great sport of ours for them and the future.

[stevelikes2fish]

Nice show and saw many of my friends. Glad I was able to pick up my shirt.

[GDubya07]

Great to see our Fearless Leader and my boy Dave at the RFA booth

Henry thank you for the great shirts

Keep up the good fight peeps and thank you to everyone involved

GDubs-:cool: