Fluke Regulations - So now what

[Ttmako]

Now that we got hosed by most of our neighbors at the ASMFC, what do we need to do?

First and foremost, take a broader look at why we are in this situation. The Magnuson-Stevens act is how we are regulated. This law, while perhaps well intended, is having terrible unintended consequences. The law needs to be repealed.

Please don't be foolish and believe the fisheries managers. The regulations for any fishery will never be relaxed with our current regulatory framework.

Look at seabass. The SSB is 130% of what it needs to be. The council just cut the recreational harvest by another 8%, while increasing commercial harvest by 50%+.

The porgy SSB is 200%+ of what it needs to be. The council just cut the bag limit from 50 to 15 fish. When asked why, the response was "because 50 fish is too much". Now, I would rather have a root canal than clean hundreds of porgies, but having the government dictate what is too much is a very slippery slope.

The entire regulatory framework needs to be completely revamped. The people who have been and are fighting this is the RFA.
If you are outraged at the entire fisheries management process I urge you to join with them in repealing the MSA.

[Jpell15]

15 porgy this year? There's a billion of those out there.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Now that we got hosed by most of our neighbors at the ASMFC, what do we need to do?

First and foremost, take a broader look at why we are in this situation. The Magnuson-Stevens act is how we are regulated. This law, while perhaps well intended, is having terrible unintended consequences. The law needs to be repealed.

Please don't be foolish and believe the fisheries managers. The regulations for any fishery will never be relaxed with our current regulatory framework.

Look at seabass. The SSB is 130% of what it needs to be. The council just cut the recreational harvest by another 8%, while increasing commercial harvest by 50%+.

The porgy SSB is 200%+ of what it needs to be. The council just cut the bag limit from 50 to 15 fish. When asked why, the response was "because 50 fish is too much". Now, I would rather have a root canal than clean hundreds of porgies, but having the government dictate what is too much is a very slippery slope.

The entire regulatory framework needs to be completely revamped. The people who have been and are fighting this is the RFA.
If you are outraged at the entire fisheries management process I urge you to join with them in repealing the MSA.

Exactly Tom!! Magnuson needs to have some flexibility and Fisheries Management needs to be sobered up and totally revamped.

Support the RFA for fighting the political side and the SSFFF which is trying to get better science introduced.

www.joinRFA.org
www.ssfff.org/id65.html

[bigal427]

I say we all become outlaws.

[frugalfisherman]

I say we all become outlaws.

I've been eating 16 inch fluke sashimi for years now. As they say in that old commercial "just do it".

[SaltLife1980]

I say we all become outlaws.

How much is the fine if you are in possession of short fish? Cant be that much can it?

[Short Cast]

I think it might be $200.00

[Rocky]

It is not over yet guys so lets not go nuclear here. There are still many wheels turning in this process before the final decision will be made.
If you have not contacted your representatives yet please do so, and please stay informed.

[Gerry Zagorski]

It is not over yet guys so lets not go nuclear here. There are still many wheels turning in this process before the final decision will be made.
If you have not contacted your representatives yet please do so, and please stay informed.

Rather then the nuclear option we could have a Sunctuary option. If the Fed says we can only keep 3 @19 and our state wants status quo which is 5 @ 18.... The Govenor can choose not to enforce 3 @ 19 within the 3 mile line of our state and enforce 5 @ 18 instead....

[AndyS]

Go to the NOAA site and read about Black Sea Bass. Stocks rebuilt, not over fished. So they cut our winter offshore sea bass fishing and lowered the limits, I'm so over saltwater fishing.

[Ttmako]

This decision will certainly drive more people to simply ignore the regulations. If you think about it it's a fair thing to do. Maine and time again, these regulators simply ignore recreational input.
At a minimum, I would strongly encourage everybody who comes in contact with a survey intercept person to verbally abuse them and their entire family. Those surveys simply do not help us in any way.

[Rocky]

Rather then the nuclear option we could have a Sunctuary option. If the Fed says we can only keep 3 @19 and our state wants status quo which is 5 @ 18.... The Govenor can choose not to enforce 3 @ 19 within the 3 mile line of our state and enforce 5 @ 18 instead....

If it comes down to that I have no problem with it for 2017.

It is the big picture we have to focus on also. The Magnuson-Stevens mess needs to be dealt with once and for all. Yes there are some good points in it, and yes there are some horrible points in it that we need to finally address.

Our law makers seem to be checking their brains at the door when they are making these decisions.

[hammer4reel]

Rather then the nuclear option we could have a Sunctuary option. If the Fed says we can only keep 3 @19 and our state wants status quo which is 5 @ 18.... The Govenor can choose not to enforce 3 @ 19 within the 3 mile line of our state and enforce 5 @ 18 instead....

NJ can also implement its own management plan to reduce the poundage of the harvest by the numbers the feds are looking for.
so going to a slot limit can do both.
allow us to keep 5 fish , and lower the total weight taken by taking smaller fish.

the best option still is a slot option to take some of the smaller male fish in the daily creel

[Sullivan]

I was under the impression after last week that many of our politicians are on our side ? If the bay fishing and down the beach is good , then I would like for the governor to hold the status quo . But nobody knows what kind of season it will be . I think there are more people getting involved , this is good , keep up the pressure and get those slot fish .
It's good to have many knowledgeable people on this site , please keep us informed .

[SaltLife1980]

I think it might be $200.00

Just googled it and got a few different answers but looks like one fish is 54 bucks. Thats nothing.....

[frugalfisherman]

Rather then the nuclear option we could have a Sunctuary option. If the Fed says we can only keep 3 @19 and our state wants status quo which is 5 @ 18.... The Govenor can choose not to enforce 3 @ 19 within the 3 mile line of our state and enforce 5 @ 18 instead....

Sanctuary state was my post but you moved it to non-fishing!

[frugalfisherman]

7:25-18.1(c)1 Take/possess 1 undersized marine fish $54
7:25-18.1(c)1.a Take/possess 1 marine fish over limit $54
7:25-18.1(c)1.f Possess 1 marine fish during closed season $54
7:25-18.1(c)2 Take/possess 2 undersized marine fish $84
7:25-18.1(c)2.b Take/possess 2 marine fish over limit $84
7:25-18.1(c)2.g Take/possess 2 marine fish during closed season $84
7:25-18.1(c)3 Take/possess 3 undersized marine fish $114
7:25-18.1(c)3.c Take/possess 3 marine fish over limit $114
7:25-18.1(c)3.h Take/possess 3 marine fish during closed season $114
7:25-18.1(c)4 Take/possess 4 undersized marine fish $144
7:25-18.1(c)4.d Take/possess 4 marine fish over limit $144
7:25-18.1(c)4.i Take/possess 4 marine fish during closed season $144
7:25-18.1(c)5 Take/possess 5 undersized marine fish $174
7:25-18.1(c)5.e Take/possess 5 marine fish over limit $174
7:25-18.1(c)5.j Take/possess 5 marine fish during closed season $174
7:25-18.1(d)1 Possess land or sell prohibited species of marine fish $54
7:25-18.1(d)2 Possess land or sell prohibited species of marine fish - two fish $84
7:25-18.1(d)3 Possess land or sell prohibited species of marine fish - three fish $114
7:25-18.1(d)4 Possess land or sell prohibited species of marine fish - four fish $144
7:25-18.1(d)5 Possess land or sell prohibited species of marine fish - five fish $174
09/01/04

[Duffman]

Go to the NOAA site and read about Black Sea Bass. Stocks rebuilt, not over fished. So they cut our winter offshore sea bass fishing and lowered the limits, I'm so over saltwater fishing.

Can I have all your stuff? Especially the seeker and loomis offshore rods?

[Duffman]

At a minimum, I would strongly encourage everybody who comes in contact with a survey intercept person to verbally abuse them and their entire family.

Your kidding right?

[Irish Jigger]

We catch our 3 at 19. Clean the boat, the fish, and have a nice dinner.

[Ttmako]

Things appear to be happening in Washington by a few of our legislators.
Earlier today pallone and lobiondo introduced legislation to maintain status quo.
http://pallone.house.gov/press-release/pallone-and-lobiondo-announce-legislation-prevent-summer-flounder-quotas-cuts
Now it is up to us to pressure our local representatives to move this bill forward. With all the shit going on in the world of politics, I'm happy they took the time to address our important issue.
Call or write your local rep to make sure they are moving this forward.
I will be forwarding the signed petition to Booker, schumer and MacDonald to make it clear this issue needs to progress.

[Fishin Dude]

According to John Toth, President of Jersey Coast Angler's Association, in the March 2017 JCAA Newspaper, he states, and I quote, "So, at this point, New Jersey has opted to go out of compliance with ASMFC's regulations! We will start our 2017 on May 21st to September 25th with an 18-inch minimum size and 5 fish limit."

He goes on to say " So we are in uncharted waters now! What's going to happen next? That's a good question. It will take some time for us to be ruled out of compliance and our state may introduce legal action to slow it down or stop it."

I don't know who has decided that NJ opted to go out of compliance, it's the first I've heard of it. I assume the announcement by Congressman Pallone that he plans, in the future, to introduce legislation is the legal action John writes about. I heard Congressman Pallone speak at the DEP Press Conference last month and he seemed sincere, let's keep up the fight and support those who are fighting for us.

[dales529]

NJ Senator and Congressional Update
http://chrissmith.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=400179

[Ttmako]

Great news that Wilbur Ross has been confirmed at Commerce. This is exactly what we were hoping for.
I'm impressed our government representatives took the initiative to send this letter as quickly as they did. I believe they hear our plea loud and clear on th issue.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Looks like our new Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross got all the memos and is taking interest in our Fisheries.

You'll see in his first address below, right at 10:12 he mentions that one of his goals is to "attain maximum sustainable yields for our fisheries".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJJg...youtu.be&t=581

Times the are a changing

[Ryelof]

Looks like our new Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross got all the memos and is taking interest in our Fisheries.

You'll see in his first address below, right at 10:12 he mentions that one of his goals is to "attain maximum sustainable yields for our fisheries".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJJg...youtu.be&t=581

Times the are a changing

Bad link Boss.

[njdiver]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gJJg86FvFSk

[Tunarun]

I'll still fish for them. Dennis

[Jlavine]

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/101963-christie-administration-formally-asks-feds-to-withdraw-summer-flounder-quota-?_topstory%3Futm_source=down-the-shore&utm_medium=social&utm_content=test&utm_campaign=social-inbound

[shresearchdude]

[At a minimum, I would strongly encourage everybody who comes in contact with a survey intercept person to verbally abuse them and their entire family. .[/QUOTE]


IMHO-Comments like this should not be tolerated by moderators.

[Capt Sal]

[At a minimum, I would strongly encourage everybody who comes in contact with a survey intercept person to verbally abuse them and their entire family. .


IMHO-Comments like this should not be tolerated by moderators.[/QUOTE]

I more than welcomed them when came to check our catch after a charter. They are just doing there job.

[bulletbob]

We catch our 3 at 19. Clean the boat, the fish, and have a nice dinner.

I understand your viewpoint, but a LOT of guys are restricted to the rivers, bay, or close to the beach, and 3 at 19 is going to be very tough.. even 18 in. the bay is not that easy, after the first few weeks.. the guys with bigger boats, that can range further offshore will do ok, but the close in guys are going to have a lot of skunks... bob

[bulletbob]

[/B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shresearchdude
[At a minimum, I would strongly encourage everybody who comes in contact with a survey intercept person to verbally abuse them and their entire family. .

IMHO-Comments like this should not be tolerated by moderators.

I more than welcomed them when came to check our catch after a charter. They are just doing there job.[/QUOTE]


I respect both opinions above but I have a different view.. it seems obvious that Gerry doesn't have a major problem with this somewhat bitter outlook, and let the poster voice his displeasure, and let it stand.

My take is this.. Yes, they are "just doing their job".. however over the entire course of human history, people in all walks of life have justified all manner of horrible behaviors in the name of " I was only doing my job".. just because its "your job", does NOT make it right... bob

[torchee]

That quote was not posted by researchdude or captain sal
Let's be careful who we accuse...

[Pennsy Guy]

That quote was not posted by researchdude or captain sal
Let's be careful who we accuse...

Yes, go back to post #11 for the originator...

[Halibuttech]

i am glad that i live in southern nova scotia where the dept of fisheries let us catch 10 flounder fish any size, i let the small ones go back as our waters are very full of flounder and the population is getting bigger every year. we can catch our 10 limit in about an hour and some of them are 4 to 5 lb. we have lots of halibut in the bay also but we are not allowed to keep them. the water temp has dropped a bit in the last few days keeping the flounder off the coast, have to wait till it warms up a bit. happy fishing

[SNAPS]

Did any one get an e-mail from the NJFW to complete a survey questionaire on line ?? i did the other day.
On February 2, 2017, the Summer Flounder, Scup and Black Sea Bass Management Board, part of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC), approved changes to this coming year's summer flounder quota for New Jersey. It mandated a one-inch size increase to New Jersey's current recreational summer flounder minimum size limit (raising it from 18-inches to 19-inches) and decreased the possession limit from 5 fish to 3 fish. New Jersey is appealing this change.

In reaching its decision the Board did not determine or consider the potential economic impact of the new quota on the summer flounder industry in New Jersey. This survey is designed to help estimate the extent of the economic impact of these recently approved summer flounder management regulations on recreational fishing. Your responses about recent trends in harvest size, abundance, and throwback mortality will help inform future decisions that promote conservation while minimizing adverse economic impacts.

We strongly urge you to complete the survey as thoroughly and accurately as possible within the next 5 days. The survey should only take about 15 minutes to complete. Your participation in this survey is voluntary and your identity throughout remains anonymous. Nowhere is your name or email requested or captured. Your cooperation, however, is much-needed to ensure the completeness and accuracy of the results. Please know that your answers will be kept confidential.

The link to the survey is:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FNP5L3C

Thank you,

New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection

In addition there was also a line item to voice your opinion, which I also did.
I assume they sent you the survey if you registered for the saltwater angler permit. Maybe not such a bad thing ??

[Bluescat1]

I filled mine out and was very truthful, I will not fish as much if I can't put something on the table every now and then.:mad:

[Gerry Zagorski]

I filled mine out and was very truthful, I will not fish as much if I can't put something on the table every now and then.:mad:

If I were a betting man I think that is the way most feel and the survey will prove that out.

[SNAPS]

If I were a betting man I think that is the way most feel and the survey will prove that out.

Same here had me thinking hard, yes, I was very truthfull.
I view this as hopefully one of positive result from the saltwater
Registry, even if you don't fish party boat etc and target fluke from the sand, you have an opinion and can see what's going on with the species from a different perspective, so, I hope you complete the survey, here is an opportunity to voice your opinion on a different platform other than here.

[Capt Sal]

I more than welcomed them when came to check our catch after a charter. They are just doing there job.


I respect both opinions above but I have a different view.. it seems obvious that Gerry doesn't have a major problem with this somewhat bitter outlook, and let the poster voice his displeasure, and let it stand.

My take is this.. Yes, they are "just doing their job".. however over the entire course of human history, people in all walks of life have justified all manner of horrible behaviors in the name of " I was only doing my job".. just because its "your job", does NOT make it right... bob[/QUOTE]

You are just so wrong and have no idea about what you are talking about.What do think they are Nazis!!!

[Walleyed]

You are just so wrong and have no idea about what you are talking about.What do think they are Nazis!!!Grow up dude!

Seriously? Playing the Nazi card? Come on. Whether you agree with the laws and regulations or not, you are legally bound by them. Should we call you an anarchist?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Simmer down here guys. I know this is a very emotional issue but no reason to be uncivil towards each other....

Funny story about the fish cops.

We get back into the dock and the fish cops walk down the ramp onto our peer to come check us out. I respect these guys so I'm always polite and for the most part so are they.

Anyhow, we were Fluke fishing that day and in the process of cleaning the fish. One of the fish cops says I'd like to measure your fish...

We happily oblige and he whips out this little tape measure that looks like it came from a kids tool set...

I can't resist having a little fun with him and say " Where'd you get that tape measure, from a Barbie kit?

He didn't think that was very funny and needless to say, we were checked out many more times by that same guy, who by the way upgraded his tape measure.

[Halibuttech]

I filled out the survey. I live in nova scotia but I filled it out as though I live in the usa and answered the questions on my fishing habits under the new rules. we should be fishing up here in about 2 weeks as the water temp is getting warmer and the flounder should be coming into the shallow water for spawning .

[Arbutis]

Not throwing back an 18 inch fluke.

Sorry to say this so directly but as a pure recreational angler, who gets out fishing only a hand full of times each season, I am not going to be handcuffed to this law - should it be adopted.

I don't fish on party boats or charters - they may have a different opinion about this because they literally go fishing every available day (and sometimes night) and drop many more hooks and lines than I would in a lifetime. I understand that is their 'business' and people who do not have the luxury of a boat should be able to utilize these means of fishing - and keep what they catch. But this repeated onslaught day after day after day by these boats most certainly contributes to the reasons why the size and bag limit is becoming more strict.

Then there's the commercial industry - don't even get me started. Why on earth should they be allowed to sweep clean the bottom and be held to a significantly lower size limit is beyond beyond my understanding. Don't the 'powers that be' understand that this is where the real problem lies?

Anyway, has there been any final decision on this regulation yet for 2017?

[hartattack]

The NJMFC took no further action on the fluke regulations as they await the ruling on our State’s appeal to the ASMFC. Therefore, as of now our regulations will remain exactly the same as they were in 2016. The season will begin on 5/21 and end on 9/25 with a 5 fish bag limit at 18”. This regulation is subject to change depending on the ruling of our appeal. Please note that 5/21 is a Sunday, season normally begins on a Saturday. . .

NJ Appeal info --> http://njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96065

[Flygaff]

I will personally be out of compliance. Fillet & release it will be. They are forcing me into a life of crime

[Bluescat1]

http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file/5915d947pr24NJ_SFounderCompliance.pdf

[Ttmako]

Well, the fat lady has sung.
I wish we had a different outcome.
Up until the 3@18 "compromise" 2 weeks ago, I really thought we had a decent shot at status quo.
If you want to know why, here is my side of the story:
The politicians were listening, but they failed to ACT on our behalf. Macarthur, Booker and Menendez were extremely well informed of the dire consequences this proposal will have. They chose not to act!!!
For the life of me, I cant figure out why they simply couldn't walk down the street and speak with Mr. Ross on our behalf. All we were asking for was a 30 minute meeting.
So the net result of Signatures, Galloway turnout and personal begging was a shorter season and smaller bag limit than last year. Certainly not the status quo I felt was a fair compromise.
I urge you to remember the 3 jerks I mentioned above that failed to act on our behalf.

[stevelikes2fish]

Booker did nothing for Newark, I didn't expect him to do anything here..............................

[Sharkyispy]

Simmer down here guys. I know this is a very emotional issue but no reason to be uncivil towards each other....

Funny story about the fish cops.

We get back into the dock and the fish cops walk down the ramp onto our peer to come check us out. I respect these guys so I'm always polite and for the most part so are they.

Anyhow, we were Fluke fishing that day and in the process of cleaning the fish. One of the fish cops says I'd like to measure your fish...

We happily oblige and he whips out this little tape measure that looks like it came from a kids tool set...

I can't resist having a little fun with him and say " Where'd you get that tape measure, from a Barbie kit?

He didn't think that was very funny and needless to say, we were checked out many more times by that same guy, who by the way upgraded his tape measure.

Maybe you should have used Ken or GI Joe.....???? Just sayin'!!!!:D

[captbogan]

Well, the fat lady has sung.
I wish we had a different outcome.
Up until the 3@18 "compromise" 2 weeks ago, I really thought we had a decent shot at status quo.
If you want to know why, here is my side of the story:
The politicians were listening, but they failed to ACT on our behalf. Macarthur, Booker and Menendez were extremely well informed of the dire consequences this proposal will have. They chose not to act!!!
For the life of me, I cant figure out why they simply couldn't walk down the street and speak with Mr. Ross on our behalf. All we were asking for was a 30 minute meeting.
So the net result of Signatures, Galloway turnout and personal begging was a shorter season and smaller bag limit than last year. Certainly not the status quo I felt was a fair compromise.
I urge you to remember the 3 jerks I mentioned above that failed to act on our behalf.

I don't know if it was posted on the site anywhere, so bare with me if I'm reiterating, but I spoke to Jim Donofrio, head of RFA, and he did have a meeting with Ross's team and they seemed very interested to help. Jim was optimistic, for the 1st time in a while. He had tried to get a meeting with Obama's administration for 8 years --shut out every time. He urged me to pass on that Trump's administration has only been in for 5 months and that we need to give his team some time. Let's hope.

[dales529]

I don't know if it was posted on the site anywhere, so bare with me if I'm reiterating, but I spoke to Jim Donofrio, head of RFA, and he did have a meeting with Ross's team and they seemed very interested to help. Jim was optimistic, for the 1st time in a while. He had tried to get a meeting with Obama's administration for 8 years --shut out every time. He urged me to pass on that Trump's administration has only been in for 5 months and that we need to give his team some time. Let's hope.

Thanks for keeping this out front Bobby. Now more than ever we need a united front (I know you are all sick of hearing it but its the only way)
A very simple way to help and fish at the same time is to join us on June 17th RFA/SSFFF Fishing trip. See sticky on the main forum. 9 spots still open.

[Sharkyispy]

So as I said, I am attempting to do anything I can for this cause. I wrote directly to the DEP asking for serious considerations of what the current regulations may cause. Here is the response received:

RE: Contact NJDEP E-Mail #009147-NHR
DEP njfishandwildlife to you + 1 moreshow details
Our staff is well aware of the impact of the new regulations, and the impact of the original parameters from the ASMFC. The 18" limit is the same as last year - in fact the same limit it's been since 2014 when it was raised from 17.5". The DEP Commissioner, recreational interests and this agency worked hard to come up with this compromise being accepted, meeting with federal officials and lobbying strongly on behalf of the state since at least January (see http://www.nj.gov/dep/newsrel/2017/17_0006.htm ). But we do need to comply with the federal mandate to lower the catch. And we have been found out of compliance with the current regulations which will likely lead to another battle for next year. But our staff, and senior staff in DEP have worked tirelessly in the interests of the state's anglers, and the businesses which rely on them, to get the best possible outcome for this year. PT

Paul Tarlowe, Wildlife Education Specialist
NJ Div. of Fish and Wildlife
605 Pequest Rd.
Oxford, NJ 07863
908-637-4125 x114
njfishandwildlife@dep.nj.gov
www.njfishandwildlife.com
www.facebook.com/njfishandwildlife

-----Original Message-----
From: contactdep@dep.nj.gov.-.do.not.reply [mailto:contactdep@dep.nj.gov.-.do.not.reply]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:47 AM
To: DEP depwebinbox <depwebinbox@dep.nj.gov>
Subject: Contact NJDEP E-Mail #009147-NHR

[tautog]

no game wardens today...have fun

[Capt Joe]

aaaarrrrgggg!

[FVPelican]

According to today's Asbury Park Press, NJ DEP pleaded our case to NOAA officials last week. And it is expected that the Commerce Department will rule on whether NJ is in compliance or not on or about July 12th. Stay tuned.

[Gerry Zagorski]

An important piece of legislation here. Let's hope it gets some support and goes somewhere.

http://www.thefishingwire.com/story/408182

[frugalfisherman]

An important piece of legislation here. Let's hope it gets some support and goes somewhere.

http://www.thefishingwire.com/story/408182

This is sort of like the "pots off the reefs bill".

[Capt Joe]

:eek::D

[Capt. Lou]

Maybe just maybe we can sneak,something thru while everybody in Wash , is talking to & making deals with the Russians 🤑