2017 Fluke Regulations NJ public Meeting

[dales529]

The N.J. public hearing on Summer Flounder Draft Amendment XXVII will be held after the N.J. Marine Fisheries Council meeting at 6:30 p.m., Jan. 5, 2017 in Galloway Township Library, 306 Jimmie Leeds Road.


Prospective regulations are so severe that there could be a limit of two to three at a 19-inch limit with a season from June 1 to Sept. 15 even though the fluke population appears to be healthy.

Have you had ENOUGH! If so attend and speak as a united group loudly. Need at least 500 and that means, For Hire PB, Charter Boat Capts, Recreational Fishermen / women, Hotel owners, Tackle Store owners, Boat Dealers, Marina Owners, Fuel suppliers, Sandwich Shop Owners, 7-11 owners basically anyone who has a connection to Salt water fishing in NJ.

Not always easy to travel to these with all our other responsibilities but if you want to make a stand this could be your last chance.

it worked for stopping the proposed SH Marine Sanctuary and it can work here too but not without physical attendance.

These shirts are available

[Gerry Zagorski]

I plan on attending so if any of you want to carpool down from Northern NJ we can all meet at the Cheesequake rest area on the Parkway just south of the Driscole Bridge on the Express Lane side.

We need to show up in force and let them know "None of the options presented are acceptable".

More details to follow...

[Rocky]

See you there.

[Sharkyispy]

Looks like NY is stepping up on this!!!


http://www.newsday.com/long-island/fishing-advocates-seek-delay-in-new-limits-on-fluke-fishing-1.12795111?pts=665835

[Capt Sal]

As usual it is held in a place they choose. Not exactly where we live. These meetings are about the options. For those of you that do not know. New Jersey picks the options given by the feds. Still a good place to voice an opinion.

[Charlie B]

I say we should give the feds our own option and that is to tell the feds to pound salt. NJ should have the State police and all local law enforcement only enforce state and local laws and declare NJ waters open to unregulated recreational fluking...Charlie

[Sullivan]

Getting 500 people is a lot of cars , car pooling is good , cause I have a pickup w/o back seats , Cheesequake rest is great for me as I live close . I do think a bus would be nice , even a yellow school bus , and if that many guys were going , you could have one from Cheesequake and one from exit 100 for the guys further south , just an idea .

[hammer4reel]

IM going to do my best to make it there .
word is the cut the commercial quota 30% and it was posted on the F&G website Last Friday. according to that and the math on the quotas to work out they already have our stuff decided before the meeting .
If thats the case and the meeting is a farse these people need to be taken to a higher court .

[AndyS]

I'm sure all the party boat and charter boat owners will be there also.

[Tuna Tales]

Where is Bass Pro Shops? New store coming soon in Sayreville....if you read this guess what - I am not buying anymore fluke tackle!

Where is Penn? Gulp!, Shimano and all of the other stakeholders??

Here we go again - writing letters, attending meetings etc. - will it make a difference?

Chuck Schumer (love him or hate him) is always there for his fellow New Yorkers. Where are our representatives? Do they even give two shits?

Loss for words here...

If the fluke population is that bad shut it down for a year....however nobody can agree on the data. How can we solve the problem if nobody can agree?

We need to stop fighting each other!

Here is an idea...how about EVERYONE get together --I will buy the pizza and beer -- (rec, commercial, party boats, charter boats) and create a comprehensive plan to conduct a research survey on the fluke population that everyone will agree on (in writing). Whatever the results everyone will agree and take and abide by whatever action (good or bad).

Hey NOAA - how about thinking out of the box for a change...perhaps a slot size or different dates as the ocean fluke fishery is different than the bay due to the cold water.

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help over the years...SSFFF, RFA, NJOA and others...

Hoping for the best here...but as an American and a tax payer I am getting very tired of begging to keep a few fluke...


Joe T.

[shrimpman steve]

Hey, that's captain Jaimie from the miss montauk right behind Shumer. Capt Jaimie representing!

[bunker dunker]

xxvii = 27 if my third grade education is correct.so we are on the 27th time in
30 years{give or take} and they still can't get it right.they can free sentenced
criminals,raise their pay,raise taxes,give other countries billions in one single session.kind of make ya wonder

[Detour66]

Why is it that the Recreational fisherman and Party/Charter boat Captains are always the ones on the front lines fighting these terrible regulations? What about the big companies that sell bait,lures,reels, boats electronics etc etc fighting this with lobbying to preserve this industry and their businesses. They have the BIG bucks and have millions to lose. Either they just don't care or they are moving on to something else cause this sport is going to disappear fast if it continues the way things are going.

[Gerry Zagorski]

The fact of the matter is NJ has 2 choices:

1) Approve one of the options that we are presented with by the NJ Marine Council
2) Don't approve anything and send the options back and tell NMFS that the cuts are unacceptable and that NJ can’t approve any of the choices based on bad science and mismanaged data collection.

The NJ marine Council has nothing to do with the quota, only to provide suggestions on how the regulations in terms of season, fish length and bag limits are implemented to get us to those quotas.

We are all frustrated but it's important to note that insulting them will gain us nothing.. They are as likely frustrated with the NMFS as we are. We need to tell them to go back to the NFMS and tell them none of the options presented were acceptable to the public.

[Charlie B]

Thats right. Thats why I said tell the feds to pound salt. And NJ should not enforce the feds regulations. They are trying to cram this down our throats. It's time we just say NO MORE...Charlie

[dales529]

Its great that we are all working towards the same goal and united in refusal to accept any option. That is why we need attendance at this meeting to make sure there is unity and voice in numbers so that they send it back for revision.
I believe NJ is the first Public Opinion Meeting for our region so what's really needed is for NJ to send the message and then have the other states follow suit. If no state accepts the options we will have the best chance of getting status quo. Has to start somewhere may as well be NJ.

[Ttmako]

I am working on getting a bus from point pleasant to Galloway.
Stay tuned for more information.

[Gerry Zagorski]

You go Tom... Thanks for the effort here!!

[hartattack]

Its great that we are all working towards the same goal and united in refusal to accept any option. That is why we need attendance at this meeting to make sure there is unity and voice in numbers so that they send it back for revision.
I believe NJ is the first Public Opinion Meeting for our region so what's really needed is for NJ to send the message and then have the other states follow suit. If no state accepts the options we will have the best chance of getting status quo. Has to start somewhere may as well be NJ.

You are correct Dave, NJ is the first !! The Atlantic coastal states of Massachusetts through North Carolina have scheduled public hearings to gather public comment.

NJ can 'set the bar' for all other states to follow by refusing this bad science. See 'ya on Thursday !

[Capt. Lou]

I'm sure all the party boat and charter boat owners will be there also.

Don't bet on it !!

[Capt. Lou]

Where is Bass Pro Shops? New store coming soon in Sayreville....if you read this guess what - I am not buying anymore fluke tackle!

Where is Penn? Gulp!, Shimano and all of the other stakeholders??

Here we go again - writing letters, attending meetings etc. - will it make a difference?

Chuck Schumer (love him or hate him) is always there for his fellow New Yorkers. Where are our representatives? Do they even give two shits?

Loss for words here...

If the fluke population is that bad shut it down for a year....however nobody can agree on the data. How can we solve the problem if nobody can agree?

We need to stop fighting each other!

Here is an idea...how about EVERYONE get together --I will buy the pizza and beer -- (rec, commercial, party boats, charter boats) and create a comprehensive plan to conduct a research survey on the fluke population that everyone will agree on (in writing). Whatever the results everyone will agree and take and abide by whatever action (good or bad).

Hey NOAA - how about thinking out of the box for a change...perhaps a slot size or different dates as the ocean fluke fishery is different than the bay due to the cold water.

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help over the years...SSFFF, RFA, NJOA and others...

Hoping for the best here...but as an American and a tax payer I am getting very tired of begging to keep a few fluke...


Joe T.


I once asked a major company that same question and their answer to me was they don't get involved politically 😳😳WTF
While others that I know of one in particular AFTCO does more that its share. Must be nice , why we contuine to support these foreign based companies on all levels boggles my mind . It's time to,step up ,or we should all openly boycott their products .

[Charlie B]

As far as boycotting goes we would have to know who helps and who does not...Charlie

[hartattack]

Here's what will be discussed on Thursday for public input: http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file//5861288eSummerFlounderDraftAddendumXXVIII_PublicCo mment_Dec2016_Revised.pdf

After wading thru this 23 page doc, I'm concerned that if the NJ marine council enacts regs that fail to meet the required reduction, the feds will step in and impose a 2 fish at 20 inches limit, which is their "precautionary default" limit and has already been adopted ! From the link above :

The Board and Council approved in December 2016 precautionary default measures for 2017 that include a minimum size of 20 inches total length, a possession limit of 2 fish, and a season of July 1–August 31. These measures would be in place for both state and federal waters of the state or region in question. If a state or region does not implement either conservationally equivalent measures or the precautionary default measures, states can be found out of compliance with the Commission’s FMP and their fishery could be closed until compliance measures are implemented.

[Ttmako]

You're correct. However, to be deemed out of compliance, a letter from the secretary of commerce is required, then a moratorium goes in place. I'm hoping the incoming secretary of commerce (Wilbur Ross), is more inclined to not sign that letter. He will be made aware of the devastating impact this proposal will have on the east coast. This isn't just a NJ/NY issue!!

Here's what will be discussed on Thursday for public input: http://www.asmfc.org/uploads/file//5861288eSummerFlounderDraftAddendumXXVIII_PublicCo mment_Dec2016_Revised.pdf

After wading thru this 23 page doc, I'm concerned that if the NJ marine council enacts regs that fail to meet the required reduction, the feds will step in and impose a 2 fish at 20 inches limit, which is their "precautionary default" limit and has already been adopted ! From the link above :

The Board and Council approved in December 2016 precautionary default measures for 2017 that include a minimum size of 20 inches total length, a possession limit of 2 fish, and a season of July 1–August 31. These measures would be in place for both state and federal waters of the state or region in question. If a state or region does not implement either conservationally equivalent measures or the precautionary default measures, states can be found out of compliance with the Commission’s FMP and their fishery could be closed until compliance measures are implemented.

[Capt Sal]

You're correct. However, to be deemed out of compliance, a letter from the secretary of commerce is required, then a moratorium goes in place. I'm hoping the incoming secretary of commerce (Wilbur Ross), is more inclined to not sign that letter. He will be made aware of the devastating impact this proposal will have on the east coast. This isn't just a NJ/NY issue!!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!! This is nation wide. I am born and raised in NJ retired in Florida. Same shit different state! No Red Snapper season at all but the commercial guys have one. Flawed nation wide! We need a change. To make a living as a for hire boat will soon be a thing of the past if this keeps up. I hope we get a break because we deserve it!

[hammer4reel]

with the commercial harvest already posted for almost 2 weeks by the time of this meeting it sure seems like they already have decided our poundage for the season.
I think the only thing that isnt in stone is daily bag VS season length.
But since the "Total" allocation is split between Commercial and Recreational harvest they are cutting us back hard

here the letter showing commercial quota for 2017

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2017/marlet-smrflndr_quota2017.pdf



.

[Gerry Zagorski]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!! This is nation wide. I am born and raised in NJ retired in Florida. Same shit different state! No Red Snapper season at all but the commercial guys have one. Flawed nation wide! We need a change. To make a living as a for hire boat will soon be a thing of the past if this keeps up. I hope we get a break because we deserve it!

Sal - I too am worried about the businesses who could go under as a result of these regulations, my own business included...

However, IMO, our fight is not to keep the regulations in our favor so we can stay in business at the expense of jeopardizing the fishery. If the fishery really was in trouble, I think we'd all agree to do whatever it takes, including stricter regulations to bring the stocks back.

We all know and the NMFS has even admitted, that the stock assessment methods and science are flawed. Further, we all fished last year and there are plenty of fluke around....If that's the case, we should not accept the quota reductions the NMFS has recommended based on bad science.

[NoLimit]

Our best hope is to get a major shake up in all the agencies that impact hunting and fishing. This might happen with the new administration who is committed to cutting the fat way back. If we show that the billions we spend is counter productive, we might have a chance of getting local control of our fisheries.

The Trump boys are the key. They need to be invited to hear our case and help make things happen.

[dales529]

Check out the T shirts on page 1 of this thread. Thanks Henry for helping me get it done. If you want,a shirt post here or pm me with a size. Cost is 15 bucks.

The most important thing is to stay unified. We are all aware that the quotas and options have been drafted and proposed by state to meet the reduction. That doesn't mean they have to be accepted
This meeting is step one and a lot can happen between now and March

[Gerry Zagorski]

1 XXL please

[jakesdad]

Gerry, and anyone else please mark order which front you want either "Status Quo" or "Data"

Also shirt color Either white, Natural or Lt. Grey

I will be going to the meeting Thursday in Gallaway and can bring them or they can be picked up at my store in Princeton.

Thanks, Henry

[AndyS]

The Council and Board are developing a comprehensive amendment to revisit
important elements of the summer flounder fishery management plan (FMP). The
Fisheries Forum presented a summary as well as feedback and facilitated further
discussion of revised goals and objectives for the summer flounder fishery. Based
on the discussion, the Summer Flounder Amendment Fishery Management Action
Team (FMAT) will refine the draft revision to the goals and objectives for future
review by the Council and Board. FMAT did recommend splitting recreational
issues into separate actions due to ongoing changes to the recreational catch
estimate methodology, the Council and Board did not take action to separate these
issues at this time.

[Ttmako]

Super important to get as many people go to this meeting.
It's critical the council hears from as many of us as possible.
There are over 2,000 signatures on the petition, that's great. However, we need to show up and explain to the regulators why we demand status quo.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Super important to get as many people go to this meeting.
It's.critical the council heard from as many of us as possible.
There are.over 2,000 signatures on the petition, that's great. However, we need to show up and explain to the regulators why we demand status quo.

Exactly!!

[AndyS]

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission

The ASMFC was established in l942 by an act of Congress (Public Law 539 of the 77th Congress) granting its consent and approval for an interstate Compact. The purpose of the Compact was to allow the Atlantic seaboard states to work together as a single entity to recommend coastwide management measures to the individual member's states for those interjurisdictional species found primarily within the states territorial seas and internal marine and estuarine waters.

The Commission is composed of 45 members, three from each of the 15 member states ranging from Maine to Florida. From each state, one commissioner represents the State agency charged with the management of the marine fishery resources, the second commissioner is a member of the Legislature and the third Commissioner is a public member appointed by the Governor.

Interstate Fishery Management Plan (ISFMP) priorities are established by the ISFMP Policy board, made up of the state Commissioners or their delegates and one member each from the NMFS and the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Priorities are based upon status of the stock or stocks, importance and economic condition of the fishery and potential effectiveness of plan implementation.Technical committees, composed of Commission staff along with state and federal scientists, develop the plans under the oversight and direction of a species board (a subset of the Policy Committee from states with an interest in the species). This is often done with the cooperation and advice of a Citizen's Advisory Committee to assure good public participation in the plan development process.

Public hearings are usually held throughout the plan development process. After review and approval by the Policy Board, the proposed plan must be approved and adopted by the full Commission. Fishery management plans are also developed jointly between the ASMFC and one or more regional fishery management councils.

Plan implementation and the enforcement of any regulations or laws so promulgated are up to the individual member states. Although the ASMFC provided a forum for the cooperative development of fishery management plans, prior to 1994 there was no mandate to ensure that individual states implemented the regulatory measures of the plans. In December of 1993, in an effort to improve coastwide fisheries management, the "Atlantic Coastal Fisheries Cooperative Management Act of 1993" was passed. This Act mandates that states implement and enforce management measures to support approved ASMFC Fishery Management Plans. States failing to comply with the ASMFC plan are subject to a federally imposed moratorium on fishing for the species involved within the waters of the noncomplying state. This provision should ensure that all states will implement those measures necessary to meet the objectives of the respective plans.

Both the ASMFC and Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council continue to monitor the resource and the fishery following implementation of the initial plan. Monitoring is necessary to insure that management objectives and regulations remain effective and appropriate as fisheries and fishery stocks change over time and that the regulatory burdens imposed on the sport and commercial sectors are no greater than necessary as changes occur.
__________________

[Ttmako]

Nearly 2,900 people signed the petition from 28 states and Australia.
What's the Over/Under on tomorrows public hearing at the Galloway Library?

6:30 PM
Galloway Library
306 East Jimmie Leeds road
Galloway, NJ

[stevelikes2fish]

I will be leaving work somewhere around 3, grab some early dinner, and get there early. Just hope I have enough energy to make it back to Lyndhurst.

[Gerry Zagorski]

See you there Steve

[deyankeeclipper]

Is there still a Carpool going down from Cheesequake?
If so what time at the rest stop?

[Gerry Zagorski]

I have a full car now but there might be some others.

If any one plans to pass the Cheesquake rest area and has room, please post it here along with the time you are going to be there.

NJ Fisheries Council meeting starts at 4:30 and is open to the public.

The Public comment meeting starts at 6:30.

[foggy notion]

Another website indicated that the Galloway Township library has room for 130 attendees. I wonder if they will move the meeting to another larger facility????

[Gerry Zagorski]

Is there still a Carpool going down from Cheesequake?
If so what time at the rest stop?

Check your PMs.

[foggy notion]

I was in error when I posted that the Library had a capacity of 130. The Library's web site indicates that they have a meeting room capacity of 90 persons.....good grief.

[Rocky]

I was in error when I posted that the Library had a capacity of 130. The Library's web site indicates that they have a meeting room capacity of 90 persons.....good grief.

Oh no say it aint so!!!

[dakota560]

I have a full car now but there might be some others.

If any one plans to pass the Cheesquake rest area and has room, please post it here along with the time you are going to be there.

NJ Fisheries Council meeting starts at 4:30 and is open to the public.

The Public comment meeting starts at 6:30.

hammer4reel and I are meeting at Cheesequake park and ride at 2:20. Want to be there in time to attend 4:30 Council mtg. Have room for 2 more. Anyone interested please pm me asap. I have a black Jeep Cherokee.

[dakota560]

Actually meeting at Cheesequake at 2:45 for anyone wanting to carpool. Have room for 2 more. if interested send pm.

[Ttmako]

Well that was interesting.
Got down to Galloway around 6:00 and it was already standing room only.
I'd say in total there were about 130-140 people in attendance.
Given the size of the reduction and potential impact people were very well behaved.
The comments started with a letter written today by our NJ representatives asking the department of commerce to intervene on our behalf. That's great news and what we need to solve this quagmire.
The crowd rejected the entire proposed addendum xviii.
The RFA, SSFFF and a host of other organizations and recreational anglers voiced strong opposition to the science, SSB and MRIP data.
If you haven't already done so please be sure to submit your comments. It is vitally important, they are read and catalogued and included in the decision making process.

[Hunter 2]

http://www.thefisherman.com/index.cfm/category/8/directory/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=1598&ParentCat=19

[dales529]

Thanks to all that bothered to show up last night. Good to see you all. OK turnout and more than most meetings but the message was sent and some great speeches delivered. NJMFC voting for status quo is a great start. Thanks for drawing the united line in the sand.

Next steps will be the test. This is the beginning not the end.