The Nation’s First Ocean Plans

[njdiver]

Summary: Today, the National Ocean Council is releasing the Nation’s first ocean plans—a historic collaboration among states, tribes, Federal agencies, and ocean stakeholders.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/12/07/nations-first-ocean-plans

[Capt Joe]

Just wonderful. We all know when the Federal gov't , under this horses ass gets involved, who gets fu**ed.
WE DO!
"Whitehouse.gov --President Barack Obama"
God Help Us!

[kevin kovach]

https://youtu.be/sW85ZcswiqM

[Finprof]

Quote from the original link:
"President Obama established the National Ocean Policy in 2010 by Executive Order,....."
That says it all.

[Capt Joe]

Quote from the original link:
"President Obama established the National Ocean Policy in 2010 by Executive Order,....."
That says it all.

Hopefully the incoming POTUS will have the wisdom to eliminate this bureaucratic pile of BS.
Read it, pure unadulterated left wing BS.

[NoLimit]

Trumps sons are big outdoorsmen- I can't imagine the tree worshippers lasting long in the Fed Govt especially given that fish stocks are getting worse.

[gnuisance]

A sustainable ocean is left wing BS? Allowing management information and environmental data to be accessed by more people is a bad thing?

You guys in this thread are a great example of how partisan politics has completely clouded your ability to see what's right. I'm no big fan of Obama but not everything he does is wrong just because it's him.

Keep flicking your butts in the ocean and cursing about how there's not enough fish

[sonic]

Are you sure you meant what appears to be said here? "Trumps sons are big outdoorsmen- I can't imagine the tree worshippers lasting long in the Fed Govt especially given that fish stocks are getting worse."
If so, I think you need to do a better job at "connecting the dots" properly.

[Blind Squirrel]

Are you sure you meant what appears to be said here? "Trumps sons are big outdoorsmen- I can't imagine the tree worshippers lasting long in the Fed Govt especially given that fish stocks are getting worse."
If so, I think you need to do a better job at "connecting the dots" properly.

Maybe he meant "Trump's sons are big outdoorsmen [who kill endangered species for 'fun' because their daddy gives them loads of $]":
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/30/16/2AF709B600000578-0-image-a-2_1438268837759.jpg

[NoLimit]

A sustainable ocean is left wing BS? Allowing management information and environmental data to be accessed by more people is a bad thing?

You guys in this thread are a great example of how partisan politics has completely clouded your ability to see what's right. I'm no big fan of Obama but not everything he does is wrong just because it's him.

Keep flicking your butts in the ocean and cursing about how there's not enough fish

You are completely clueless if you think cigarette butts made from tobacco leaf, wood pulp, and cotton fiber is doing to ANYTHING to impact fisheries. What it does show is that you have overdosed on the lefty koolaid.

I have been ocean fishing since the 50's and recall a dozen party boats railed with customers fishing linen line and filling 33 gallon cans with fluke. We used to go to Quincy Bay in the 70's and fill the freezer with winter flounder fillets on Columbus Day and St Patty's Day. This is in the day of no limits and plenty of fish. It was also a time before "sustainable" and "environmental" and "green" BS. But thanks to the tree worshippers, we have no whiting, no fluke, no flounder, and who know what else is next.

As best as I can see, the only thing that accounts for it is a leftist agenda based on Marx and Gramsci to destroy traditional family institutions where parents raised their kids on real food. Instead, it seems that the left wants everyone eating out of a box store.

[sonic]

My man, you are mixing your politics with whatever fact & science based knowledge you may have. All I can say is it takes all kinds...smoke em if ya got em. Have a great holiday season!

[NoLimit]

My man, you are mixing your politics with whatever fact & science based knowledge you may have. All I can say is it takes all kinds...smoke em if ya got em. Have a great holiday season!

What do you mean by that? Do you mean, in true Marxist fashion, that facts are relative; that my facts are not the same as "real" facts? Well that is the whole problem in the nutshell. For 2000 years, western civilization has aspired to single truths and ideals. But now the Marxist Relativists come along with their own brand of "truth". They will tell us that we are going to die in rising oceans and rising heat waves...until we prove that its getting cold again. So they change the "truth" to something called "Climate Change" and still go full steam ahead with More More More taxes and laws. That is why we are in the mess we are in.

[Blind Squirrel]

You are completely clueless if you think cigarette butts made from tobacco leaf, wood pulp, and cotton fiber is doing to ANYTHING to impact fisheries. What it does show is that you have overdosed on the lefty koolaid.

I have been ocean fishing since the 50's and recall a dozen party boats railed with customers fishing linen line and filling 33 gallon cans with fluke. We used to go to Quincy Bay in the 70's and fill the freezer with winter flounder fillets on Columbus Day and St Patty's Day. This is in the day of no limits and plenty of fish. It was also a time before "sustainable" and "environmental" and "green" BS. But thanks to the tree worshippers, we have no whiting, no fluke, no flounder, and who know what else is next.

As best as I can see, the only thing that accounts for it is a leftist agenda based on Marx and Gramsci to destroy traditional family institutions where parents raised their kids on real food. Instead, it seems that the left wants everyone eating out of a box store.
"Keep flicking your butts in the ocean" was probably a metaphor for this, brought to you by the "leftist agenda" at NatGeo:
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/explore/pristine-seas/critical-issues-marine-pollution/

[Blind Squirrel]

What do you mean by that? Do you mean, in true Marxist fashion, that facts are relative; that my facts are not the same as "real" facts? Well that is the whole problem in the nutshell. For 2000 years, western civilization has aspired to single truths and ideals. But now the Marxist Relativists come along with their own brand of "truth". They will tell us that we are going to die in rising oceans and rising heat waves...until we prove that its getting cold again. So they change the "truth" to something called "Climate Change" and still go full steam ahead with More More More taxes and laws. That is why we are in the mess we are in.
There's just no foolin' a climate change denier, no matter how hard we "tree worshippers" try:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basics/
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/indicators/
http://www.globalchange.gov/
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/july-was-the-warmest-of-any-mo/51910210
http://www.nature.org/about-us/working-with-companies/companies-we-work-with/odwalla.xml?intc=nature.promo
http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/aboutcc/
http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/big-thaw/
https://www.ama-assn.org/ssl3/ecomm/PolicyFinderForm.pl?site=www.ama-assn.org&uri=/resources/html/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-135.938.HTM
http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=E18C8F2D-1
http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/
http://www.climatehotmap.org/
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/policy/publicpolicies/promote/globalclimatechange.html
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming#.VdcX0ZcTEj0
https://www.edf.org/climate/human-activity-is-causing-global-warming
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/8/20/california-drought-is-25-percent-more-severe-because-of-climate-change.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/topic/global-warming-and-climate-change/
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/climate-change
http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/
http://www.mfe.govt.nz/climate-change
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/07/13/national/science-health/effects-will-become-more-obvious-as-japans-climate-changes/#.VdcZzpcTEj0

[NoLimit]

There's just no foolin' a climate change denier, no matter how hard we "tree worshippers" try:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basics/
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/indicators/
http://www.globalchange.gov/
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/july-was-the-warmest-of-any-mo/51910210
http://www.nature.org/about-us/working-with-companies/companies-we-work-with/odwalla.xml?intc=nature.promo
http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/aboutcc/
http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/big-thaw/
https://www.ama-assn.org/ssl3/ecomm/PolicyFinderForm.pl?site=www.ama-assn.org&uri=/resources/html/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-135.938.HTM
http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=E18C8F2D-1
http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/
http://www.climatehotmap.org/
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/policy/publicpolicies/promote/globalclimatechange.html
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming#.VdcX0ZcTEj0
https://www.edf.org/climate/human-activity-is-causing-global-warming
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/8/20/california-drought-is-25-percent-more-severe-because-of-climate-change.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/topic/global-warming-and-climate-change/
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/climate-change
http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/
http://www.mfe.govt.nz/climate-change
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/07/13/national/science-health/effects-will-become-more-obvious-as-japans-climate-changes/#.VdcZzpcTEj0

Imagine that, our friend of Obama has all the links ready to go to "educate" us about Global Warming...I mean Climate Change... (soon to be Global Freezing). Hey, we notice that you have links to Obama's NASA and EPA where the prime mission was changed from putting men in space to "Muslim Outreach", whatever that means. And Obama's EPA redefined a farmers tractor rut as a "mini mountain range" and the puddles as "wetlands". http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3482124/posts?page=14 Thank God Trump is going to change that quick.

[NoLimit]

"Keep flicking your butts in the ocean" was probably a metaphor for this, brought to you by the "leftist agenda" at NatGeo:
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/explore/pristine-seas/critical-issues-marine-pollution/

Ha - "Marine Pollution"! We used to call that Pooping in Your Bed. Obviously, there are some cultures that are primitive when it comes to waste management.

[Blind Squirrel]

Imagine that, our friend of Obama has all the links ready to go to "educate" us about Global Warming...I mean Climate Change... (soon to be Global Freezing). Hey, we notice that you have links to Obama's NASA and EPA where the prime mission was changed from putting men in space to "Muslim Outreach", whatever that means. And Obama's EPA redefined a farmers tractor rut as a "mini mountain range" and the puddles as "wetlands". http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3482124/posts?page=14 Thank God Trump is going to change that quick.
Did "we notice" the number of governments worldwide that are represented by those links to environmental agencies? Try as he may, our Grabber-In-Chief is not going to change science.

[sonic]

What do you mean by that? Do you mean, in true Marxist fashion, that facts are relative; that my facts are not the same as "real" facts? Well that is the whole problem in the nutshell. For 2000 years, western civilization has aspired to single truths and ideals. But now the Marxist Relativists come along with their own brand of "truth". They will tell us that we are going to die in rising oceans and rising heat waves...until we prove that its getting cold again. So they change the "truth" to something called "Climate Change" and still go full steam ahead with More More More taxes and laws. That is why we are in the mess we are in.

Well I wasn't going to get further involved with this thread, but I need to suggest that you inform yourself regarding unbiased, objective science (no political BS), and how environmental management policy is based upon those findings. Also, you may want to google the word empirical, as in empirical evidence. If you have an open mind and are objective, I think you will understand what I meant...to answer your question. Good luck and godspeed.

[gnuisance]

"Keep flicking your butts in the ocean" was probably a metaphor for this, brought to you by the "leftist agenda" at NatGeo:
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/explore/pristine-seas/critical-issues-marine-pollution/

Thank you!

East coast fishing guys are an interesting mix of super conservative kill kill kill take take take types and catch and release, environmentally conscious folks. This thread is a window to that.

No limit - you've reached the limit on the amount of times per day you can use the term "marxist agenda" and "destroying traditional family values." If you don't see the importance of managing our oceans so they are sustainable then you are affecting the ability of my family to put food on the table. Today and in the future. And that's unacceptable.

[fishguy]

Imagine that, our friend of Obama has all the links ready to go to "educate" us about Global Warming...I mean Climate Change... (soon to be Global Freezing). Hey, we notice that you have links to Obama's NASA and EPA where the prime mission was changed from putting men in space to "Muslim Outreach", whatever that means. And Obama's EPA redefined a farmers tractor rut as a "mini mountain range" and the puddles as "wetlands". http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3.../posts?page=14 Thank God Trump is going to change that quick.

So you post a link to an article written by someone calling themselves "LibWhacker" in response to 21 different links about climate change and how it's an actual thing. The article cites zero evidence to back up it's claims. Zero. But you call bullshit on decades of scientific research backed up by decades of empirical evidence backed up the overwhelming consensus of the worldwide scientific community? It's some kind of 40 year plus Marxist conspiracy? You believe "LibWhacker" but not 99% of the worlds scientists?

C'mon, man.

[Capt Joe]

jeez, I almost missed this one: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/8/20/california-drought-is-25-percent-more-severe-because-of-climate-change.html

:D

only thing missing here is the tear rolling down on his white fur.
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/climate-change

[Blind Squirrel]

jeez, I almost missed this one: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/8/20/california-drought-is-25-percent-more-severe-because-of-climate-change.html

:D

only thing missing here is the tear rolling down on his white fur.
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/climate-change

I put the al Jazeera link in there for a reason.
:(
It won't be funny to most of us when the polar bears are gone.

[fishguy]

I don't understand how fishermen, people who by definition spend their time outside, can have such little regard for the environment.


cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance
noun PSYCHOLOGY
the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

If you hate "tree huggers" than eat fish you caught in the Gowanus Canal.

[Capt Joe]

http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=can+of+worms&s_it=img-ans&imgId=F44ED5703E072718A791D1B3FE3534C2552C4C20&v_t=keyword_rollover

Open...stand back....:D:D:D

[june181901]

Sonic: Who or what is 'Gramsci'?

[Blind Squirrel]

Sonic: Who or what is 'Gramsci'?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/intro.htm
He was mentioned by NoLimit (post #10), not sonic.

[june181901]

Blind Squirrel: Thanks I had never heard of him.

[NoLimit]

Sonic: Who or what is 'Gramsci'? Did you ever wonder why things seem to be falling apart regarding the things that used to hold us together? We used to have a strong network of institutions that was the driving force behind this country. Strong families, churches, and social institutions made this country great.

Well the commie that was the architect for the destruction of the family, religious institutions, and even fraternal organizations was Antonio Gramsci.

Now you know the rest of the story.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/02/cultural_marxism.html

[NoLimit]

Well I wasn't going to get further involved with this thread, but I need to suggest that you inform yourself regarding unbiased, objective science (no political BS), and how environmental management policy is based upon those findings. Also, you may want to google the word empirical, as in empirical evidence. If you have an open mind and are objective, I think you will understand what I meant...to answer your question. Good luck and godspeed.

1) Instead of hurling ad hominems, will you be countering with anything of substance? I cited facts and all you came up with was name calling.

2) God - its with a capital "G".

[NoLimit]

Thank you!

East coast fishing guys are an interesting mix of super conservative kill kill kill take take take types and catch and release, environmentally conscious folks. This thread is a window to that.

No limit - you've reached the limit on the amount of times per day you can use the term "marxist agenda" and "destroying traditional family values." If you don't see the importance of managing our oceans so they are sustainable then you are affecting the ability of my family to put food on the table. Today and in the future. And that's unacceptable.

You presume that there exists something like "managing the oceans". You need to get a hold of your Nietzsche side. Just because you came up with a name for something does not mean that it exists. For instance, name one recreational game species that has been "managed" back to its former stock levels? (and stripers have come back ONLY because recreational fishermen were able to get laws to stop the slaughter by commercial boats). The answer is that you cant find any. Every species that has been "managed" is doing worse than the days prior to "management".

[NoLimit]

Many are asking "What the hell does Gramsci have to do with lousy fluke, whiting, and flounder fishing". And the answer is quite simple. The left/commies/globalists or whatever believe they know BETTER and that they need to manage things for the "better good". Well looking back at Russia and Venezuela and Cuba proves that central "management" makes things worse and not better so how does the left justify what they do? They do it by telling you what is true and what is not true. George Orwell has a great line in one of his books - "2+2=4" and this is exactly what the left needs to do to survive. They have to tell you what is true and not true.

So we all know that fluke and whiting and winter flounder are disappearing but the left will do the smoke and mirrors and say you are wrong because all this is being "managed". They will turn the tables and tell us we are greedy neandertals who destroy stocks by flicking butts of not gently releasing stripers. They will also destroy the institutions where truth was embraced. Churches are being attacked for not being PC. Fraternal organizations are targeted for promoting drinking and driving. Schools dont teach reading, writing, math or vocational skills anymore. They teach that everything is ok and anything goes. Hunting and fishing is "inhumane" (before Disney, animals were not human) so kids are now sitting on their butts playing make believe dungeon and dragon war all day.

Ideally, management of our fisheries would be done on a local level where the people closest to the habitat can establish the laws and regs. Only an idiot Lefty Environment Manager can perpetuate the mess we have now where juvenile whiting continue to be decimated, offshore lumps are steamrollered and dredged, and predators are protected so they can decimate winter flounder. We are told this is ok because it is all part of "managing".

Hopefully, there will be a change in this country and local govt will get back their rights.

[Blind Squirrel]

You presume that there exists something like "managing the oceans". You need to get a hold of your Nietzsche side. Just because you came up with a name for something does not mean that it exists. For instance, name one recreational game species that has been "managed" back to its former stock levels? (and stripers have come back ONLY because recreational fishermen were able to get laws to stop the slaughter by commercial boats). The answer is that you cant find any. Every species that has been "managed" is doing worse than the days prior to "management".
How, pray tell, were recreational fishermen ever able to get laws passed to stop the slaughter of striped bass by commercial boats without those evil "Marxist" and "left/commies/globalists or whatever" regulators you're demonizing? :confused:

[reason162]

This is great, I log onto NJfishing to read alt-right talking points.

There are other places where conservation topics are vigorously debated, and as an added bonus: fact-based.

[Exit135]

How in the world can anyone who fishes our coastal waters possibly not think that our fisheries are in sever decline. I used to chuck for yellowfin 20 miles from the Montauk Lighthouse by chasing the whiting trawlers in the early 90's GONE. By early August you're lucky if you manage one or two keeper fluke on a decent day...let's face it the fluke fishery is getting pounded to death each year. Striper fishing off Montauk in the fall has absolutely fallen off in the last ten years. The charter boats up there take everyone blackfishing and sea bass fishing in the fall. Only ten years ago you could live line porgies and eels on every tide change and catch 30 lbs. fish all day GONE. This isn't a partisan argument. I voted for Trump I hope he does great. This is a simple case of supply and demand and the supply isn't allowed to procreate as nature intended and the demand wants to be left alone. It doesn't work fellas. Give the fish a chance....something has to give.

[fishguy]

Many are asking "What the hell does Gramsci have to do with lousy fluke, whiting, and flounder fishing". And the answer is quite simple. The left/commies/globalists or whatever believe they know BETTER and that they need to manage things for the "better good". Well looking back at Russia and Venezuela and Cuba proves that central "management" makes things worse and not better so how does the left justify what they do? They do it by telling you what is true and what is not true. George Orwell has a great line in one of his books - "2+2=4" and this is exactly what the left needs to do to survive. They have to tell you what is true and not true.

So we all know that fluke and whiting and winter flounder are disappearing but the left will do the smoke and mirrors and say you are wrong because all this is being "managed". They will turn the tables and tell us we are greedy neandertals who destroy stocks by flicking butts of not gently releasing stripers. They will also destroy the institutions where truth was embraced. Churches are being attacked for not being PC. Fraternal organizations are targeted for promoting drinking and driving. Schools dont teach reading, writing, math or vocational skills anymore. They teach that everything is ok and anything goes. Hunting and fishing is "inhumane" (before Disney, animals were not human) so kids are now sitting on their butts playing make believe dungeon and dragon war all day.

Ideally, management of our fisheries would be done on a local level where the people closest to the habitat can establish the laws and regs. Only an idiot Lefty Environment Manager can perpetuate the mess we have now where juvenile whiting continue to be decimated, offshore lumps are steamrollered and dredged, and predators are protected so they can decimate winter flounder. We are told this is ok because it is all part of "managing".

Hopefully, there will be a change in this country and local govt will get back their rights.

Jesus, man. Take off your tinfoil hat for a minute. Breath.

Donald Trump doesn't give a flying f*** about you, us or our fishing. OK?

Funny how you espouse all this "alt-right" gobbledy gook about the government telling you what to do yet you support the closest thing ever the USA has had to a fascist. Good luck with that.

[Exit135]

Local level??? LOL Please tell me one organization that lobbies Washington, D.C. to support the recreational fishermen. You can't tell me, because there isn't one. If you want to have a voice, truly get organized and you better dig into your wallets because without $$$ and an organized voting block our voice is absolutely ignored. Obama and Trump haven't touched s fishing pole in their lives. This hasn't nothiong to with who is the President.

[Blind Squirrel]

Jesus, man. Take off your tinfoil hat for a minute. Breath.

Donald Trump doesn't give a flying f*** about you, us or our fishing. OK?

Funny how you espouse all this "alt-right" gobbledy gook about the government telling you what to do yet you support the closest thing ever the USA has had to a fascist. Good luck with that.
You just nailed it. Trump has gone from grabbing privates to grabbing generals, has declared war on the CIA and ~16 other US intelligence agencies, and his new Ministry of Truth has just started compiling dossiers on their enemies of the state:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/10/trump-team-memo-on-climate-change-alarms-energy-department-staff.html
Any patriotic American who's not scared to death of this tyrant and his corrupt regime-in-the-making is just not paying attention.

[Gerry Zagorski]

This is getting way too political. Closing this post...